Possible lawsuit against Scarab/Glastron/RBH (discussion thread)

[Slugger55]

Is it marine max that has black balled @Slugger55 I guess from what ive heard about them i could see them doing that. I still see alot of new Scarab owners coming to FB groups alot asking questions and ECT.... seems to me alot of the upset people have been in the southeast area and been dealing with marine max.

Nope not Marine Max, it was the dealer calling his wholesalers. They said they wanted nothing to do with the boat....

 

[Tempest]

Gentlemen,
I am very sorry to have learned about these difficulties and wish everyone a resolution to their satisfaction. Are these issues limited to the 195s only and only to the early model years? I am considering a 16/17 195 Platinum and am growing rather concerned, thank you.

 

[ScarabMike]

@Tempest Its happening to the whole range of their line, there are just more 195 owners since it was their first model out in 2014.

 

[ScarabMike]

Is it only happening to the 2014 models... I just bought a 16 and I am now starting to sweat a little.

No its happening to all years.

 

[Robert Sands]

I just took my boat to the shop yesterday that works on it, they were very concerned over my issue. I got the impression I'm the first guy to come in with a problem like this. They took my whole statement and have been in contact with Rec Boat Holdings and BRP. I haven't received the official diagnosis, I'm just guessing it's a carbon seal based on what I've learned here. I'll let you know what transpires.

There was a post on here about the ethics of selling this boat with a known major issue, such as the carbon seal problem. I was game for repairing the minor bugs in the boat and eventually getting it dialed in, but the issues that are surfacing now are basically unforgivable and potentially deadly. Let's say there is an issue with the design or manufacturing causing a seal failure? Now let's say that the company knows about it and is choosing to ignore it. I can't fault the distributors and dealers for wanting nothing to do with it (although they should fix problems), but I can fault Scarab's parent company for not recalling and addressing the issue. If there are special requirements for maintenance, then is there documentation being sent to dealers to be given to the techs? Is my tech going to turn my boat on and let it run during a oil change or winterization because that's common standard with other boats, and because no one officially trained him to deal with a Scarab (babying the carbon seal). These guys deal with multiple boats at once, if the Scarab requires special instruction these guys need to know, otherwise it's their own best judgment, and why would it be different from any other boat.

I'm wondering if Scarab's owners don't want to deal with it because recalling the boats to deal with an issue of this magnitude would end the line? It may also require BRP and Scarab to work together on a fix, if it's an engineering, measurement, mold issue? Or could we be doing something to damage the seal, such as pulling a ski rope out of the intake?

I'll admit my understanding of the seal is limited, but they've got to be able to address why the boat can be bone dry one minute and be full of water the next. I could understand maybe a bit of leaking to warn us that there is an issue, or some sort of built in indicator to let us know prior to it sinking. Maybe with the existing Scarabs they need to change out the seals, I don't know.

I do know that if the diagnosis comes back as the seal then I'm probably done with the boat. I'll try to work with them to get it off my hands and get me into something new (do we know anything about the quality of the 2018 Scarab lines yet?), and if not then a consumer protection lawyer is the next step, I'm already talking to one to get a better understanding of the issue from a legal standpoint. hopefully I don't have to use them.

 

[Robert Sands]

Ok Next question before I really get scared? Is this happening more to boats that are used in salt water requiring frequent flushing, or all fresh/salt water boats. I am planning on leaving the boat in the water just for three months and pulling it September.

Not really sure, but my boat has never seen salt water.

 

[Slugger55]

Salt water, Fresh water doesn't matter... Did you see the video of the 165 sinking on a fresh water lake?? This isn't an issue of what body of water you are running it on, its poor quality control...

 

[S.peay]

Im going to go out on a slight limb here and say that video of the 165 sinking was a fairly new boat 16-17 model. Way over loaded and who knows what happened before the video started rolling. I persoanlly have not heard of a carbon seal issue on a 165. I love my boat and hate seeing all the bashing being done on this brand boat.... I get the pains of first year model boats and things but it was the first year scarab boat and scarab in general with RBH. All im trying to say here is that some of the problems seen can be owner related and dealers not knowing what to tell the owners when they pick up the boat, im lucky enough to of been around rotax power and know not to run off a hose for longer than a min or two.... alot of first time buyers do not. But sometimes the problems with these boats aren't poor quality control or anything related to that... it can also be a lot of other factors.

 

[Slugger55]

@S.peay I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with anyone on this forum. I am telling you that all of my problems have been quality control and poor technical support. I have been at the helm of many different boats over the past 25 years (to include having a Captain's license) and I have never had this many problems with quality nor service. There are many boat owners out there @PapaBear @ScarabMike @Elio195HOI who have had the same issues. I get the first year, but it is not just the "14's it is all of them... Your turn will come and you may have to eat some crow... Just say'in...

 

[S.peay]

Hey totally didn't mean any disrespect at all! I was just saying it seems like anytime somthing goes wrong it's automatically the carbon seal. Or a fault of the boat maker. That's all I'm saying... I'm sure there are some Lemons from what I've read and scarab hasn't held up their end of the bargain.... and I get you and others are pissed about it.... but there are plenty of people I've seen and talked too that absolute love the boat and have had 100 plus hours of trouble free use.

 

[ScarabMike]

Ill say this again............ we have only touched about 2% of total Scarab boats out there in this forum in one way or another. Out of those 2% there have been over 20 issues with carbon seals, and many, many issues with quality and control, dealer network and knowledge, and material quality issues. Yes there have also been some user errors, but those are very far and in between. I was the first Scarab owner in here, I have seen them come and go. But all these issues out of 2%, that is complete BS by Scarab.

My name might says Scarab on here, but I am not brand loyal. To be honest I will never be. Yamaha. Glastron, Sea-doo, Scarab. Chap, any manufacturer that produces a quality, reliable boat within my budget will get my hard earned money.

Hey totally didn't mean any disrespect at all! I was just saying it seems like anytime something goes wrong it's automatically the carbon seal. Or a fault of the boat maker. That's all I'm saying... I'm sure there are some Lemons from what I've read and scarab hasn't held up their end of the bargain.... and I get you and others are pissed about it.... but there are plenty of people I've seen and talked too that absolute love the boat and have had 100 plus hours of trouble free use.

 

[Slugger55]

Hey totally didn't mean any disrespect at all! I was just saying it seems like anytime somthing goes wrong it's automatically the carbon seal. Or a fault of the boat maker. That's all I'm saying... I'm sure there are some Lemons from what I've read and scarab hasn't held up their end of the bargain.... and I get you and others are pissed about it.... but there are plenty of people I've seen and talked too that absolute love the boat and have had 100 plus hours of trouble free use.

Dude, we absolutely LOVE our boat too! It is just spending more time in the shop than on the water. First 4 hours locking nut came off the impeller (so the dealer told me) ; 14 hours the motor takes a crap and they replace it with a new one. New motor 14 hours the thermostat housing explodes and leaves me stranded in St. Andrews Bay, 28 hours the carbon seal go's. Now we are being told that our dealer (MM) no longer services our boat. So, with all that being said, I apologize for shooting you in the face, but you have yet to deal with what we have endured...

 

[James R Whitten]

Wish I wouldve saw this post before I bought my boat. I might of went a different direction. So far I like my boat and the only problem I had was one of the power wires coming out plug for the led lights on a speaker. I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed on this thing.

 

[ALAN MANN SR.]

Scarab Boats Hello, Miguel.

After further diagnosis, it was found that the carbon seal was not the cause of the problem. A broken strap on resonator box caused a lot of vibrations and pulled the resonator hose off allowing water to fill the boat. We are working with this customer and BRP but thank you again for your concerns.

Kind regards,
Scarab Jet Boats
This is on Facebook about Robert Sands boat.

 

[ScarabMike]

You guys seem to miss the point of all of this. The reason for this thread, the reason for the frustration is the lack of SUPPORT. We are not looking for money, we are not looking to get replacement boats, nothing like that.

When a huge dealer network is gone, and there are only a handful of dealers left to support the line we are stuck. The boats don't get repaired in a timely manner, and if the dealer isn't equipped, or has the knowledge to work on our issues, we have to wait months/years to get these issues repaired.

Some of us owners of the first boats that they built have our warrantys running out in the next couple years. We need these issues resolved before that.

Alan, I understand you love your boat, and the brand. I do too. And I want to be able to keep her, and never have to sell her.

QUOTE="ALAN MANN SR., post: 254553, member: 2822"]
Scarab Boats Hello, Miguel.

After further diagnosis, it was found that the carbon seal was not the cause of the problem. A broken strap on resonator box caused a lot of vibrations and pulled the resonator hose off allowing water to fill the boat. We are working with this customer and BRP but thank you again for your concerns.

Kind regards,
Scarab Jet Boats
This is on Facebook about Robert Sands boat.[/QUOTE]

 

[ALAN MANN SR.]

Yes I love my boat and would like to keep her as long as I can. And not as lucky I guess to have two more years of warranty left. I have only to May 2018 to make sure mine is right. And yes I had problems with the purchasing dealer but went to another Marine Max ( Clearwater ) dealer and they have treated me right. They also told me that they sold more Scarab boats than any of the other brand and had only happy customers, and did not know why corporate office decided to discontinue the line. Never had to wait more than 2 weeks to get my boat back. Most of the problem was that I could only take and pick it up on Saturday. I am disappointed also that Marine Max discontinued the Scarab line. But all I heard was how bad Marine Max was and how long it took to resolve issues. So now we at left with a few independent dealer. Well it all come down to what does BOAT stand for- Bring On Another Thousand. And in my opinion threats and bashing does no good to resolve anything.

 

[Pirana]

It is truly sad that we, owners, have to go thru this. Personally I have only suffered minor inconveniences...a burned LED, depth finder didnt work and loose door. But I can definitely see the problems . And Iam terrified that I could be the next. So far, my MarineMax dealer has been very helpful, but only they know if they will still be there when I need them. I previously owned a 2007 SeaDoo Challenger and never had a single problem with it...and that was one of the reasons I decided to continue to support a BRP powered boat. But reading all of these threads really scares me. This was a big investement for me and would hate to have it go to waste!

PS-The local Dallas MarineMax keeps getting new Scarabs...just received 2 new center consoles and 2, 165 last week.

 

[Mainah]

Lots of QC issues pooping up on both Yamaha and Scarab lately. BRP makes a great compact lightweight engine and engine control package. The supercharger is the weakest link in the package IMO but if you do the PM then you should be trouble free. Yamaha likewise makes a great lightweight engine that has had timing chain issues but still a great engine IMO and any timing chain issues have been promptly covered as I understand it.

The issue that gets me the most is boats that leak. No brand new boat should leak and any boat that does should be repaired quickly. No amount of leak or amount of leaky units is acceptable and should be considered a pass/fail all or nothing standard. This issue seems to be one that neither Yamaha or Scarab are taking seriously or one that is so costly to fix that they are making a decision to stick their heads in the sand on it. They know their boats leak and they continue to pump out hulls that leak without doing anything about it. This is where they should be held accountable. I hope they are and everyone gets their leaky boats fixed.

 

[Robert Sands]

Hi all, sorry for the late reply.

My last update from the BRP guys is that the carbon seal wasn't the issue after all. The issue was a rubber strap on the resonator broke and caused the hose that was connected in a through-hull position to come off. Unfortunately this causes irreversible leaking if the boat is still in the water. When I was diagnosing it the engine bay was full of water and there was no way to see that. The techs and BRP did a great job with me actually. I think they're starting to see that people are scrutinizing the Scarabs and starting to pay attention.

After the season I'll get them to do a check on the carbon seal just to make sure. I definitely jumped the gun on the carbon seal diagnosis, even though I guess it doesn't matter. A sinking boat is a sinking boat at the time.

 

[Pirana]

Wow! Can you take a pic of the affected part?