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[Jameson Clark]

@Jameson Clark Wondering - if you have an opinion, or what are your thoughts on the Toyota 5.7 in tundras/landcruisers etc. (3UR-FE, I think)?

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I have no personal experience with them. I HEAR great power/poor fuel economy from people I know with them though.

 

[2kwik4u]

.........For us the only two that hold up for what we do is dodge and the tahoes. Even though the tahoes are awfully under powered they are reliable. ...........

The Tahoes are a bit underpowered, and the factory tuning sucks. I think the old 6.0L and newer 6.2 should almost be mandatory for that much weight. If you think about it though, aside from the latest batch of variable displacement engines, there is no variable valve timing, or other such technology inside. You're basically looking at a highly refined small block from years past. Hence the reliability. I really like the 5.3 in my Sierra. Had 180k miles on the one in my '03 Yukon when we traded it. Never opened a valve cover on that engine and it never burnt a drop of oil between changes. That thing was a tank. Wasn't going to win any stoplight races, but it did everything I ever asked of it.

The equipment guy just got back from the trade show and said the new pursuit durango all wheel drive in a beast. They may be replacing our tahoes.. Not sure...........

The new AWD Durangos are quite nice. We're shopping those now to replace the wifes Traverse. Doubt we'll get the R/T with the big motor, but we might if I can find a cheap enough one. Those run strong, and I like the ZF8spd they put in them.

 

[bronze_10]

I agree... Someone on here said the biggest problem for the 5.3 may be the transmission tuning on those engines... But we have not had any breakdowns... Just sluggish .

 

[2kwik4u]

I agree... Someone on here said the biggest problem for the 5.3 may be the transmission tuning on those engines... But we have not had any breakdowns... Just sluggish .

Yea, the tuning on the transmission is terrible. The timing is poor, and the responsiveness is poor as well. On top fo that GM pulls timing during the shift to reduce the torque load on the transmission. I've seen mine drop from 42deg to -8deg during the shift. The truck just lays over for what feels like an eternity and it makes it a noticeable "laggy" driving experience. A good tune seriously wakes the "feel" of the whole truck up. I was able to pickup almost 1/2 second in the 1/4 mile from just removing that torque management on my SS. Granted that was a 6.0 LS2 equipped SUV with a 5spd, and now I drive a 5.3/6psd combo in a pickup, I'm expecting similar results when I tune this one.

There is a video of a 6.2 powered Sierra with a tune on Youtube doing a 0-60 run, and I think I timed it at like 6 seconds or something. I'll have to go back and look, but the tune is really the key to getting a "snappy" GM fullsize anything. Kinda sucks to be that way, I'm sure there are emissions/epa requirements that lock GM into that, but it sucks.

 

[gmtech16450yz]

Try this in a Ford...



That's 1.5 yards of wet top sand I picked up yesterday. Probably well over a 4000lb load. I bought this truck new in '08, it's hauled HUNDREDS of loads like this. It's a 1/2 ton with an L76 6.0/4L80, tuned of course by me. The places I pick up rock, dirt or sand always question my order with the same comment... "It's not a Ford is it?". They refuse to load more than .5 yards of anything in a Ford 1/2 ton. One of the guys told me he once dropped less than half a yard of dirt in a F150 and the rear axle snapped as soon as the guy tried to move it. lol.

I've worked in a GM dealership for over 3 decades. The GM trucks have been bulletproof for a long time. Sure, they have some engines or transmissions with some poor calibrations here and there over the years, but nothing a little tune can't make perfect. All the brands have their pro's and con's, but I'll take a GM truck any day over the others.

 

[jocolo21]

2012 Ford Raptor with the 6.2l my Winnebago toyhauler is 7100lbs empty add the side by side and a couple of dir bikes you are looking close to 9000 with gear extra gas food etc, no problem towing this beast 9.5 mpg

 

[2kwik4u]

Try this in a Ford...

That's 1.5 yards of wet top sand I picked up yesterday. Probably well over a 4000lb load. I bought this truck new in '08, it's hauled HUNDREDS of loads like this. It's a 1/2 ton with an L76 6.0/4L80, tuned of course by me. The places I pick up rock, dirt or sand always question my order with the same comment... "It's not a Ford is it?". They refuse to load more than .5 yards of anything in a Ford 1/2 ton. One of the guys told me he once dropped less than half a yard of dirt in a F150 and the rear axle snapped as soon as the guy tried to move it. lol.

I've worked in a GM dealership for over 3 decades. The GM trucks have been bulletproof for a long time. Sure, they have some engines or transmissions with some poor calibrations here and there over the years, but nothing a little tune can't make perfect. All the brands have their pro's and con's, but I'll take a GM truck any day over the others.

Rare combo to have the L76/4L80E in the 1500 truck.

I'm 90% certain I'll be getting a Black Bear Tune for the Sierra this winter. Any thoughts on them?

I've done all my GM tuning with HPTuners in the past (The TBSS and a buddies C5 mostly), and have some experience with the old Syclone/Typhoon trucks and tuning on them, but the older OBD1 stuff didn't carry over much to the newer MAF vehicles. I still have some licenses on my HPTuners setup, but don't want to take the time to mess with it myself, so I'm considering the mail order variety.

 

[gmtech16450yz]

Rare combo to have the L76/4L80E in the 1500 truck.

I'm 90% certain I'll be getting a Black Bear Tune for the Sierra this winter. Any thoughts on them?

I've done all my GM tuning with HPTuners in the past (The TBSS and a buddies C5 mostly), and have some experience with the old Syclone/Typhoon trucks and tuning on them, but the older OBD1 stuff didn't carry over much to the newer MAF vehicles. I still have some licenses on my HPTuners setup, but don't want to take the time to mess with it myself, so I'm considering the mail order variety.

Wow, Black Bear is still in business? I've had personal experience fixing his tunes, but that was 10 years ago. I had to re-do a few trucks with his tunes that I knew were doomed if they didn't get fixed. Way too much ignition timing and whacked out fueling. Trans calibrations were pretty harsh too, simply took out a pile of TM to make the shifts feel firmer.

That being said, I put the 10 years ago part in bold because if he's still in business, he must have figured out a thing or two! I would give him the benefit of doubt and not rely on what his tunes were like a decade ago. The truck engines haven't changed too much until the DI versions, if he figured out how to make his tunes work it's not like you'd be asking him to tune something new and different. Even the trans TM part, that was fairly common practice years ago, most tuners just wanted to eliminate all torque management. That's the absolute WRONG way to tune. Sure, you can make a tune "feel" good and strong, but it won't last. Dropping engine torque during shifts is a good, I'll say even wonderful thing to do. lol. If done correctly, it makes for nice quick shifts that don't hurt the trans or driveline even behind huge hp engines.

If your truck is a GMT900 or earlier, I'd say have him do it if his feedback looks ok. The DI engines are trickier, there's still a lot that these "tuners" don't know about them. I have no idea if he's figured them out, I haven't been hanging out in the HPT forum for awhile and haven't done tuning for any private parties for awhile either.

Obviously the other way you can go is to just do it yourself, but that takes a lot of learning and logging. And time, you need to take careful and slow steps. BTW, whatever tune you put in your truck, I would STRONGLY SUGGEST that you learn how and what to log and then log, log, log. Seriously. When I tune a vehicle, I log it every single time I drive it. If you don't log, you're tuning blind and that's when bad things happen.

Hope that helps!

 

[gmtech16450yz]

Hate to dis on Fords some more, but this was what I hauled a couple days ago...





This is something I absolutely would NOT want to do with an aluminum bed truck. If you don't carry loads of rock or bricks, the aluminum beds are fine. But it you do, it will not be pretty after the first few loads.

 

[2kwik4u]

Wow, Black Bear is still in business? I've had personal experience fixing his tunes, but that was 10 years ago. I had to re-do a few trucks with his tunes that I knew were doomed if they didn't get fixed. Way too much ignition timing and whacked out fueling. Trans calibrations were pretty harsh too, simply took out a pile of TM to make the shifts feel firmer.

That being said, I put the 10 years ago part in bold because if he's still in business, he must have figured out a thing or two! I would give him the benefit of doubt and not rely on what his tunes were like a decade ago. The truck engines haven't changed too much until the DI versions, if he figured out how to make his tunes work it's not like you'd be asking him to tune something new and different. Even the trans TM part, that was fairly common practice years ago, most tuners just wanted to eliminate all torque management. That's the absolute WRONG way to tune. Sure, you can make a tune "feel" good and strong, but it won't last. Dropping engine torque during shifts is a good, I'll say even wonderful thing to do. lol. If done correctly, it makes for nice quick shifts that don't hurt the trans or driveline even behind huge hp engines.

If your truck is a GMT900 or earlier, I'd say have him do it if his feedback looks ok. The DI engines are trickier, there's still a lot that these "tuners" don't know about them. I have no idea if he's figured them out, I haven't been hanging out in the HPT forum for awhile and haven't done tuning for any private parties for awhile either.

Obviously the other way you can go is to just do it yourself, but that takes a lot of learning and logging. And time, you need to take careful and slow steps. BTW, whatever tune you put in your truck, I would STRONGLY SUGGEST that you learn how and what to log and then log, log, log. Seriously. When I tune a vehicle, I log it every single time I drive it. If you don't log, you're tuning blind and that's when bad things happen.

Hope that helps!

Wow, helluva reply there. Thanks for the info for certain.

My truck is a '15 which I think is the K2 platform. Not certain if it's a DI engine or not. Any recommendations on tuners for this platform other than Black Bear? Not really wanting a ton more performance, really just looking to clean up the shifting, reduce the TM a bit, and maybe pickup a mpg or two. I'm sure I could do it myself, have the software and laptop sitting on the shelf, but don't really have the time/effort to put into it at this point.

Thanks!

 

[gmtech16450yz]

No problem, glad to help.

The year of your truck changes my advice though. I wouldn't try to tune it yourself, the learning curve is pretty steep. Your 15 is a Direct Injection engine, which means the engine management is very different than what you've looked at before. Honestly, I'd leave it alone. There's almost no power to be gained by tuning that '15, and gaining gas mileage is the hardest thing to do when tuning. It's relatively easy to gain power and efficiency, which in theory should get you better gas mileage, but what happens is you just use more power. If all you did was 95% freeway driving, yeah you might be able to gain a little bit of mpg's, but chances are it would take quite awhile to pay back the cost of the tune itself in gas savings.

Here's something you can try though, if you haven't already... Try running premium fuel. GM engine calibrations on the trucks and SUV's is usually very aggressive on the ignition timing. They rely on the knock sensors to dial it back. Even though they don't specify or recommend premium gas for a truck like yours, the stock tune is almost always too far advanced to not knock on regular gas. So what happens is when you run premium gas, it keeps the ignition timing all the way up which will absolutely get you more power and better mileage. Will it be enough to pay for the difference in gas price between 87 and 91? A lot of the time it is. So at the least, you'll get more power, and it might not cost much of anything. Try it and see. FWIW, I run premium fuel in all of my vehicles all of the time.

Edit- I take that back... I run full e85 in my "play" cars like the LSA Sky and SS.

 

[swatski]

Here's something you can try though, if you haven't already... Try running premium fuel. GM engine calibrations on the trucks and SUV's is usually very aggressive on the ignition timing. They rely on the knock sensors to dial it back. Even though they don't specify or recommend premium gas for a truck like yours, the stock tune is almost always too far advanced to not knock on regular gas. So what happens is when you run premium gas, it keeps the ignition timing all the way up which will absolutely get you more power and better mileage. Will it be enough to pay for the difference in gas price between 87 and 91? A lot of the time it is. So at the least, you'll get more power, and it might not cost much of anything. Try it and see. FWIW, I run premium fuel in all of my vehicles all of the time.

I kind of wondered about it myself. Do you know if the Toyota 5.7 3UR-FE engine would be like that, too?
TIA

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[2kwik4u]

No problem, glad to help.

The year of your truck changes my advice though. I wouldn't try to tune it yourself, the learning curve is pretty steep. Your 15 is a Direct Injection engine, which means the engine management is very different than what you've looked at before. Honestly, I'd leave it alone. There's almost no power to be gained by tuning that '15, and gaining gas mileage is the hardest thing to do when tuning. It's relatively easy to gain power and efficiency, which in theory should get you better gas mileage, but what happens is you just use more power. If all you did was 95% freeway driving, yeah you might be able to gain a little bit of mpg's, but chances are it would take quite awhile to pay back the cost of the tune itself in gas savings.

Here's something you can try though, if you haven't already... Try running premium fuel. GM engine calibrations on the trucks and SUV's is usually very aggressive on the ignition timing. They rely on the knock sensors to dial it back. Even though they don't specify or recommend premium gas for a truck like yours, the stock tune is almost always too far advanced to not knock on regular gas. So what happens is when you run premium gas, it keeps the ignition timing all the way up which will absolutely get you more power and better mileage. Will it be enough to pay for the difference in gas price between 87 and 91? A lot of the time it is. So at the least, you'll get more power, and it might not cost much of anything. Try it and see. FWIW, I run premium fuel in all of my vehicles all of the time.

Edit- I take that back... I run full e85 in my "play" cars like the LSA Sky and SS.

Gotcha, thats some good info.

Interesting that you mention going to a higher octane. I was logging (via Torque app and my cellphone) on the tow to the lake last week and noticed I had about 4-5deg knock retard, and was actually going to fill up with 93 this week and see what the difference was. I didn't have any audible knock, but I've always aimed to have zero knock. ever. period. none. SO, guess I'll start another cost per mile analysis on this truck.

I did the same thing on my '12 Focus. It had 12.5:1 compression on the little N/A 2.0L. It was also E85 accepting. So I took 10 tanks of each fuel, E85, 87, and 93 and logged fuel mileage vs dollars spent. 87 lost by a landslide at $0.15/mi, E85 was second at $0.10/mi, and 93 won at $0.08/mi. Was an interesting find that the more expensive fuel actually unlocked enough performance to easily cover the additional cost. I'll have to do the same thing on the truck now to see where I land.

Any thoughts on transmission tuning? The 6L80E does some wierd hunting at light loads on light uphills. I would like to change some fo those shift points, and reduce shift times a bit. I've done tuning on a number of 4L60E's and 4L80E's in the past. I've even been involved in running a mid '90's Tahoe ECM in a GMC Syclone to control the 4L80E that was put in that truck. I haven't touched the 6L80E transmissions though. Think this is something I could handle on my own, or should I look somewhere else to get that done? Are the shifting tables and parameters similar?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[swatski]

I have no personal experience with them. I HEAR great power/poor fuel economy from people I know with them though.

Thank you. I have not had the time to look into this too much, yet, but a couple of posts here made me think this engine could run better on the premium fuel (its fine with 87) - which was always my feeling on it I just couldn’t bring any numbers to the table.

From what I'm hearing these 5.7 engines while "old" are really so different and more "advanced" as compared to, for example, 1.8 Yamaha engines which lack even basic knock sensors!
Apparently Toyota has decided to allow the software (algorithms) to take raw data, in real time, to calibrate and run (meaning, there is really no ECU hard tune running there?). This engine runs with in a constant variable depending on readings - all basically run by sensors. So the idea is that running 87 causes significant knock and results in timing being pulled even on the stock tune - when run hard.
I'm looking for more information, as the DAP tuning guys I found - posts numbers that are quite striking - if true. But I kind of believe it, as it makes sense.
"These engines pull 8-12 degrees of timing due to knock retard on 87 oct, 6-10 deg on 89oct, 2-6 deg on 91oct, and 0-2deg on 93oct. That is on a completely stock truck with factory tune."

What makes me realize how much power is being lost due to this electronic control - for example the torque management system is so crazy - on my new Land cruiser - how the engine and trans function when it's cold (not warmed up). Press the throttle, and the engine revs up, but the truck barely moves... This is not an issue really, but definitely makes me think.

If some of the lost power could be recoverable with simple use of 93 gas, be great for the car especially when towing etc.

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[seanmclean]

Hate to dis on Fords some more, but this was what I hauled a couple days ago...


View attachment 82846 View attachment 82847


This is something I absolutely would NOT want to do with an aluminum bed truck. If you don't carry loads of rock or bricks, the aluminum beds are fine. But it you do, it will not be pretty after the first few loads.

Looks like those were deliberately stacked. Aluminum bed would be fine for that. Dumping a load of bricks out of a backhoe would be a different story. This is what god made bedliners for.

 

[Stevenpigsooie]

@Jameson Clark Wondering - if you have an opinion, or what are your thoughts on the Toyota 5.7 in tundras/landcruisers etc. (3UR-FE, I think)?

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My wife’s Sequoia has the 5.7 and it pulls better than my Silverado’s 5.3. The truck has a better towing experience (less sway, tighter suspension, better brakes) but noticeable lack of power going up hills compared to the Sequoia.

 

[swatski]

My wife’s Sequoia has the 5.7 and it pulls better than my Silverado’s 5.3. The truck has a better towing experience (less sway, tighter suspension, better brakes) but noticeable lack of power going up hills compared to the Sequoia.

My Landcruiser is short-ish (for it's mass) and suspended quite high for better ground clearance - which is always bad for highway towing. It has way more sway compared to my last tow vehicle, Audi Q7. Can't complain about power of the 5.7 at all, but the 3.0 TDIs are just so impressive for highway towing I'm a bit spoiled. The Q7 TDI was just a beast, albeit small-ish looking compared to large American SUVs. I miss that thing for sure (had to sell due to VW diesel gate), but the new Landy is pretty amazing in its own right.

I wonder if you guys have experimented with using premium (93 octane) gas in the Seq? I plan on doing this for sure, I do not expect any differences in normal driving, but it could be a significant boost when towing especially in hills.

From what I'm reading - that business with Toyota 5.7 ECU pulling timing for low octane fuel under high loads is real!

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[2kwik4u]

My Landcruiser is short-ish (for it's mass) and suspended quite high for better ground clearance - which is always bad for highway towing. It has way more sway compared to my last tow vehicle, Audi Q7. Can't complain about power of the 5.7 at all, but the 3.0 TDIs are just so impressive for highway towing I'm a bit spoiled. The Q7 TDI was just a beast, albeit small-ish looking compared to large American SUVs. I miss that thing for sure (had to sell due to VW diesel gate), but the new Landy is pretty amazing in its own right.

I wonder if you guys have experimented with using premium (93 octane) gas in the Seq? I plan on doing this for sure, I do not expect any differences in normal driving, but it could be a significant boost when towing especially in hills.

From what I'm reading - that business with Toyota 5.7 ECU pulling timing for low octane fuel under high loads is real!

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Grab a cheap data logger before you make the switch from 87 to 93. Log timing advance and knock retard. With the same load conditions would be ideal, but probably not practical.

I run a cheap bluetooth ELM327 from Amazon, and the Torque Pro app on my phone (android only). Total cost to datalog was under $20

 

[2kwik4u]

So, back to the original post for a second @OCMD do you have full coverage through BoatUS, or just towing coverage? The wife and I already have the boat fully insured through another firm (whom I'm now calling to see what roadside assistance is covered), but would like to have this trailering coverage as well.

Anyone else know of a company that just does the on water tow/trailer coverage?

 

[OCMD]

I believe you can call boat US and just get the tow package to include trailer assist. But over 12 years of boat ownership? I have gravitated to just getting rid of the company (Erie) that insures all my stuff for the boat, and use Boat US. They are specialists and the claims process is so easy. (I had a kid lose her wig a few years back on a tube run, $1000 wig, and was reimbursed quickly with no hassle on the medical claim.) A boat tow issue documented here few years ago (towed off a sandbar) moved me about 50 yards or so. Free with a phone call. Very expensive if I didn't have the towing. And then this incident. No hassle. No out of pocket. I recommend Boat US for the entire boat thing, forget your normal insurance. And the rates are competitive if not better. But to your question? Yes. call 'em up and sign up for towing/trailer assist. I went ten years without having to use it, but was damn glad I had it. You will be too. My idiot brother in law got towed off the Chesapeake 3 years ago when his POS boat failed. $1400. I asked him "After that experience,you got the Boat US on water towing, correct?" No. Damn if it didn't happen again the next year. You can't fix stupid.