Subwoofer size and location

[Jaylex]

Thanks @viggen

Ive never played with a box design program, can you point me in the right direction

I'm also looking at doing 2 12w3s instead of the single 12w6.

What other subs do you like, preferably 12s

 

[Speedling]

@Markk @jal

@Markk
They are vented. See attached photos. Crazy thing is there still plenty of room in there to upgrade later. Those grille I put on the outside bench seats cost me Luke $15 or something on Amazon. They actually match the boat's colors well. This weekend I'm going to point my subs toward the hull/gunwal.

Looks nice!

 

[FloJet]

i would use a box design program and see what would sound better, 1.3cu ft sealed or ported. My experience has been manufacturer specs are usually in the minimum box sizemside if the equation, it works with what they suggest but a larger box will sound a lot better. Might be worth looking into

15's can sound awesome, actually the best system I heard used 18's IB..... simply amazing how musician those huge speakers were. Always thought 10's and 12's for rock/alternative, 15+ for rap only and wow was I wrong. The wrong box can make a crappy speaker sound great.... just like a great box can make a crappy speaker sound great.

The W6 line is great, personally never owned but listened to several over the years. Some sales people at my local shop sprefer them to the W7 line. I do think there are better speaker options then JL, often times for less or similar money, then again I have always been one who doesn't follow the norm or those big brands

Well each one of my boxes is at 1.65cu ft. Not bad for two of them in the bench seating. I'm almost positive I can build 2 boxes to accommodate 2 15" subs.

 

[viggen]

If I recall winsd is a very popular box design program and there are a few others.

To be honest I tried to use it and myself being totally computer challenged I had no luck!

Last two subs I used were Morel ultimo and hybrid Audio Clarus. Both subs I was very pleased with.... the morel being more musical/transparent and the Clarus being still musicical but you feel it more.

if I was in the market for a sub I would consider the hybrid Audio technology Clarus 12, also read great reviews of Audiofrog GB12 and then there is the new company Oncore which uses Eric Stevens designed products before he left the company to start his own by himself. Oncore has only been selling products for a few months thus they might be willing to deal a bit on price to get their name out. Eric started Image Dynamics way back in the day which is another Speaker line that's on par with a W6, their IDQ line is solid, also the IDMAX line. Stevensaudio is Eric's own/new company, which should be A++ stuff.... not sure if he's released any products yet though. Even Alpines type R subs are actually really good and should be worth a look.

There are lots of great speaker companies out there.... any of what I mentioned as well as JL should be considered

 

[FloJet]

I agree with you. Most important thing is getting the right power to them, right enclosures and the tuning, even a cheap sub can sound magnificent.

 

[4wheeldeal]

Ok so I've read everyone's post, and still didn't listen, I'm going to try something, and if I don't like it, I'll toss it in the jeep as I want something different in there anyways. I ordered a Sundown E8v5 sub, and a Rockville RXM-M10 amp, not sure about the amp but it had good reviews and I like the real rating they give it. The main difference that I'm going to do is I'm going to make a T-line box for it. Yeah, it's big, take a bit to make but if you know what they are, you know why I'm going to make it. I might rhino line the outside to help with moisture, but it will not be carpet. I'm going to try and mount it in aft port seat by the battery. This is on my 16 ar192. I have about 3 weeks till I see anything so I might have enough time to make a box before it comes, we will see. Should be interesting.

 

[viggen]

I have a pair of sundown audio subs for my Jeep, haven't used them yet but from what I found they were the best slim subs to mount under my seat, beet sitting my my bedroom for a year as I save for a amp

That Rockville amp looks like it makes 200w at 2 ohm and 150w at 4 ohm... I would want more power for a sub

 

[Speedling]

Ok so I've read everyone's post, and still didn't listen, I'm going to try something, and if I don't like it, I'll toss it in the jeep as I want something different in there anyways. I ordered a Sundown E8v5 sub, and a Rockville RXM-M10 amp, not sure about the amp but it had good reviews and I like the real rating they give it. The main difference that I'm going to do is I'm going to make a T-line box for it. Yeah, it's big, take a bit to make but if you know what they are, you know why I'm going to make it. I might rhino line the outside to help with moisture, but it will not be carpet. I'm going to try and mount it in aft port seat by the battery. This is on my 16 ar192. I have about 3 weeks till I see anything so I might have enough time to make a box before it comes, we will see. Should be interesting.

Looking forward to seeing pictures!

 

[4wheeldeal]

I have a pair of sundown audio subs for my Jeep, haven't used them yet but from what I found they were the best slim subs to mount under my seat, beet sitting my my bedroom for a year as I save for a amp

That Rockville amp looks like it makes 200w at 2 ohms and 150w at 4 ohms... I would want more power for a sub

It's going to be tight for watts, RMS is 600w at 1 ohm which is how I will set it up, the do have CEA rating of 300watts at 1ohm which is decent and does match the rating of the sub but of course, they can handle way more. I'm not looking to impress everyone on the lake but want something different and a fun project I can show off. I like that they are honest with the ratings. I have two other amps I will run if this one can't put out enough power but both are not marine amps. I'll most likely my MB Quarts one just for the hell of it. I'm getting old and don't like to everyone to hear what I'm listening too, but if I'm at the cottage with friends cursing around, that might change. I just want it to hit hard when it should and surprise me. I can't see any free air sub of any size or watts touching the ability of this sub and box if build right. What I'm not sure of is how it will sound muffled under the seat, that's the wild card. I don't have a box small enough to fit under the seat to test currently.

I was hoping to do mids as well but I don't have time to complete a full stereo project. adding two more 6.5s and add an amp for all 6, but I'm still working on LEDs, and busy with work. Plus I still need to build the box. I teach tech in high school so I have access to anything machine wise but I need to spend some time designing the box to fit the space and still meet my needs. I'm going for a long thin box design to give me space for storage still, or that's the idea. I've never built one of these boxes, I just want to get the volume right and make sure the port is long enough. Going to take me some time to finish everything up but I'm thinking I have at least 3 weeks before I see the sub anyways.

 

[David Analog]

Ok so I've read everyone's post, and still didn't listen, I'm going to try something, and if I don't like it, I'll toss it in the jeep as I want something different in there anyways. I ordered a Sundown E8v5 sub, and a Rockville RXM-M10 amp, not sure about the amp but it had good reviews and I like the real rating they give it. The main difference that I'm going to do is I'm going to make a T-line box for it. Yeah, it's big, take a bit to make but if you know what they are, you know why I'm going to make it. I might rhino line the outside to help with moisture, but it will not be carpet. I'm going to try and mount it in aft port seat by the battery. This is on my 16 ar192. I have about 3 weeks till I see anything so I might have enough time to make a box before it comes, we will see. Should be interesting.

By a "T-Line" box do you mean a quarter-wave transmission line?

 

[Speedling]

You guys got me thinking of changing up stuff again. Gosh, it's my downfall, I like to mess and tinker too much!
I have this amp sitting on a shelf: https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_33984_Clarion-XN3410.html but it wasn't working. I wonder if I had a bad fuse because when I was installing my current amps, I found that one of my fuses had corrosion on it and wasn't letting it turn on because it didn't have enough contact where the fuse was. Now that I figured that out I kinda wanna try it out again because it's a marine amp, and bridged can do 330x2 rms however it's a class a/b mosfet vs the current NON marine amp class D I have in there, https://smile.amazon.com/Rockford-F...encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&ie=UTF8 which packs a huge punch but I also would like to upgrade to marine subs because while it sounded great, after a week in a slip at Lake Cumberland I had some mold/mildew start on them.

So now I am thinking that the setup @FloJet has with those extra speaker grills looks pretty cool too and perhaps I can work something like that into the whole thing.
I kinda want to move my batteries in a different spot as well because I found last year that I tend to not really put anything under the port side cushions at all just because of the two big batteries. Part of that problem is I have my shutoff in there as well and that means before and after every trip I am going in there to turn on/off the shutoff switch. I also change from starter to house when out and about and back for driving around etc.
Ha! perhaps I should make a thread about the switch placement?! Oh my tinkering mind..... Thanks a lot subwoofer guys!

 

[4wheeldeal]

By a "T-Line" box do you mean a quarter-wave transmission line?

Yes. I'm new to making one, so I need to figure out if I have enough room for it and allow for storage or access to store still. Should be interesting, who knows I might give up and toss it in a regular box and if that does the job keep it that way. My wife things the stereo is fine and has no idea what I need that big thumpy thing. Lol

 

[Speedling]

Yes. I'm new to making one, so I need to figure out if I have enough room for it and allow for storage or access to store still. Should be interesting, who knows I might give up and toss it in a regular box and if that does the job keep it that way. My wife things the stereo is fine and has no idea what I need that big thumpy thing. Lol

I don't know much about the T line boxes other than they take a LOT of room to work correctly! I mean, when you figure most people on these forums just install an infinite baffle sub and call it a day, it makes this type of box seem overly complicated! However, I bet if it was properly made, it would sound better than an IB! You should get on someone's boat with an IB and see if it's good enough for you and perhaps the simplicity is worth it! Orrrrrr.... you're like me and you just like to tinker and try/learn new things so it would be fun!

 

[4wheeldeal]

I don't know much about the T line boxes other than they take a LOT of room to work correctly! I mean, when you figure most people on these forums just install an infinite baffle sub and call it a day, it makes this type of box seem overly complicated! However, I bet if it was properly made, it would sound better than an IB! You should get on someone's boat with an IB and see if it's good enough for you and perhaps the simplicity is worth it! Orrrrrr.... you're like me and you just like to tinker and try/learn new things so it would be fun!

Oh I'm totally a tinker, I'm in the process still of making my custom led setup. Almost ready to start drilling. Once that projects done I'll move onto the box, working out the design will take me a bit. I shipping the stuff my my father in-law and he can ship them to me but I have a feeling I'll just have him bring them up in July when he comes to visit. I'm in Ontario so duty, shipping etc was 100$ just for the sub so F that. Rather have him bring the stuff up for me for free.

 

[David Analog]

Yes. I'm new to making one, so I need to figure out if I have enough room for it and allow for storage or access to store still. Should be interesting, who knows I might give up and toss it in a regular box and if that does the job keep it that way. My wife things the stereo is fine and has no idea what I need that big thumpy thing. Lol

Most of the on-line references to a Sundown loaded T-line enclosure are a complete misunderstanding of what a true transmission line really is.
As an example of a true transmission line, look at an IMF TLS-80, which uses a T-line to mostly attenuate the rear wave via a highly damped path before being terminated at a 1/4th wave length of the drivers natural resonance. Thus, no real added output over a standard infinite baffle or acoustic suspension subwoofer....but achieving a very low and linear bass response. And very tricky to correctly design.
Instead, what you are looking at as T-lines are essentially clumsy one note resonators. And yes, they will enhance the SPL if you don't mind sacrificing all that is musical. You could save a lot of wood and run a bass-reflex sub enclosure.
Typical of the internet.

 

[4wheeldeal]

Most of the on-line references to a Sundown loaded T-line enclosure are a complete misunderstanding of what a true transmission line really is.
As an example of a true transmission line, look at an IMF TLS-80, which uses a T-line to mostly attenuate the rear wave via a highly damped path before being terminated at a 1/4th wave length of the drivers natural resonance. Thus, no real added output over a standard infinite baffle or acoustic suspension subwoofer....but achieving a very low and linear bass response. And very tricky to correctly design.
Instead, what you are looking at as T-lines are essentially clumsy one note resonators. And yes, they will enhance the SPL if you don't mind sacrificing all that is musical. You could save a lot of wood and run a bass-reflex sub enclosure.
Typical of the internet.

I was looking at it as an output stand point only, crap, I'll have to look into it more.

 

[David Analog]

I was looking at it as an output stand point only, crap, I'll have to look into it more.

It is actually pretty simple. If the ultimate output is your goal, then follow this basic prescription. First, determine the maximum sub enclosure that you and your boat space will permit. From the enclosure size, determine the maximum size of sub driver that will work in an optimum manner in a bass-reflex system within those dimensions. More enclosure displacement + more subwoofer surface area = the most output. No esoteric work-around can circumvent this basic fact. So placing the horse before the cart....the boat/you determine the enclosure. The enclosure dictates the driver.

 

[4wheeldeal]

It is actually pretty simple. If the ultimate output is your goal, then follow this basic prescription. First, determine the maximum sub enclosure that you and your boat space will permit. From the enclosure size, determine the maximum size of sub driver that will work in an optimum manner in a bass-reflex system within those dimensions. More enclosure displacement + more subwoofer surface area = the most output. No esoteric work-around can circumvent this basic fact. So placing the horse before the cart....the boat/you determine the enclosure. The enclosure dictates the driver.

All considering the recommended volume size from the manufacturer. If I go with a ported box it is 0.5 to 0.75 cube feet. The annoying part is the port, port size and length. Port noise is very annoying.

 

[4wheeldeal]

Doing a bit or research found a good video on how to calculate a T-line box and a line to great info on it.

http://www.t-linespeakers.org/

Oh another great report on T lines, I'm still sold on them. Size might be an issue, need to do a cad model and see what happens.

 

[David Analog]

Guy doesn't even know the basics, like how to correctly calculate Sd. So much misinformation. So sad.