Swapped out Thrust Vector XV for Cobrajet fins...opinions

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Thanks for your input I appreciate it and it gives me a chance to clarify some misinformation.
All the magnum A K steering systems are compatible with both the mega fangs and the side thrust adaptor called lateral thrusters.
The cobra steering for the 19 foot boats includes the Ultimate steering and the viper.
If the 19 foot boat does not have a keel then you can also add the MEGA FANG system for excellent reverse control better stopping power steering and even more all time steering however if the 19 foot boat has the rudder I will be offering a compatible side force stabilizer so that any of the late model nozzles can operate with my ultimate steering and the lateral thruster if you so desire.
I am doing this because my mega fang system is not compatible with the 19 foot rudder however the viper with the fangs built in is compatible so we want to give you the most options as always.
As for the E series I now instruct people to reverse the fin button cap bolt to avoid the reverse bucket being snagged if you do strike an object .

This picture was just posted by @Mainah ironically it shows the bolt I was just mentioning and you can see it clears fine but if you did strike a log or rock etc. with this system the bracket is designed to bend to avoid damage to the nozzle and it this happens the end of the bolt can contact the ribs on the reverse bucket and with the E series it will not have the force needed to move the bucket so it will put that engine in limp mode until you move the fin back to it's proper position releasing the bucket , this is why I suggest reversing the bolt on the E series models.
I suspect you did not have the MEGA fang setup on your E series 24 foot boat as this also greatly enhances the entire range of steering from idle to wide open without having huge fins hanging down under the boat .

 

[FloJet]

Great thread and lots of entertainment as usual.

I actually have Cobra's on my 24 and TV's on my FSH 21. I really like the way the 21 performs and handles and did not feel the need for additional help / tracking at speed. I also wanted to try out the thrusters - installed but not tested - and the Cobras are not an option with those. My experience on my FSH 19 (both systems) was better handling with TV's at slow speed but some spray. When I switched to the Cobra's I lost some slow speed ability (guess from the surface area) but had less spray and better handling at speed.

On the 24 foot, the Cobras are great at speed - much improved handling and tracking with skiers and tubes. Not to say it is great, but with the rope on the tower it is definitely acceptable and in spitting range of our old malibu (which had outdrive, rudder and three fins for tracking - different animal). The 24 is very different in handling from the 21 - much less responsive. The slow speed handling with the Cobras is marginal in my experience - a little better but still not great. Backing up control is very little improved and in certain low wind conditions is non-existent. Very much like a v-drive and can be handled with experience and bumping in right direction in forward.

I have hit a log and bent my Cobras resulting in an engine error when the fin blocked the engine from going into reverse. Loaf mode in forward still available and clearable with battery shutdown and restart. I bent the Cobra back in place and back in business.

Bottom line for me is again no perfect solution but lots of fun experimenting with options and playing with the boats. Thrusters could be a game changer - will report back.

Hmm I would like to these tests under a normal 21' . FSH 21' is not too a good comparison as that's a different hull setup as lets say the AR210 or above. But great post tho.

 

[swatski]

Great thread and lots of entertainment as usual.

I actually have Cobra's on my 24 and TV's on my FSH 21. I really like the way the 21 performs and handles and did not feel the need for additional help / tracking at speed. I also wanted to try out the thrusters - installed but not tested - and the Cobras are not an option with those. My experience on my FSH 19 (both systems) was better handling with TV's at slow speed but some spray. When I switched to the Cobra's I lost some slow speed ability (guess from the surface area) but had less spray and better handling at speed.

On the 24 foot, the Cobras are great at speed - much improved handling and tracking with skiers and tubes. Not to say it is great, but with the rope on the tower it is definitely acceptable and in spitting range of our old malibu (which had outdrive, rudder and three fins for tracking - different animal). The 24 is very different in handling from the 21 - much less responsive. The slow speed handling with the Cobras is marginal in my experience - a little better but still not great. Backing up control is very little improved and in certain low wind conditions is non-existent. Very much like a v-drive and can be handled with experience and bumping in right direction in forward.

I have hit a log and bent my Cobras resulting in an engine error when the fin blocked the engine from going into reverse. Loaf mode in forward still available and clearable with battery shutdown and restart. I bent the Cobra back in place and back in business.

Bottom line for me is again no perfect solution but lots of fun experimenting with options and playing with the boats. Thrusters could be a game changer - will report back.

MEGAs make a huge difference in reverse. The reverse becomes usable, actually.
I posted it somewhere - I can do donuts in reverse, simply not doable without the Megas.
Just my 0.02

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Well I have no doubt as the weather warms more people will be testing their new steering and reverse mods. We also have one member who is testing both on the fsh 21 foot boat He ran into a small problem with some idiot who forgot to put in a couple of bolts and another bolt that was not working properly for some reason but THIS " actually rearrange those letters for a more accurate word" happens! So I am I mean the idiot is shipping him a couple of bolts so he can get his test finished.

 

[Van T]

I'm pretty sure all the 21 hulls are same . Didn't they just change the top half on the 21 fsh , not positive

 

[druppert]

however if the 19 foot boat has the rudder I will be offering a compatible side force stabilizer so that any of the late model nozzles can operate with my ultimate steering and the lateral thruster if you so desire.

Do I read this right that the Ultimate is compatible with @JetBoatPilot new Lateral Thruster?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

The magnum A K system is.
I placed an order for a special set of side force stabilizers to allow the ultimate steering to also be compatible if you have the late style nozzles if you have the early style I can also have special side force stabilizers for that as well , The mega fang system also provides reverse handling ,power steering and improved stopping for half the price and it is compatible with all the boats except the 19 foot keel models as I said previously. And it will work with thrust vectors so more options for the members . I now have the NEW BRACKETS AND HARDWARE FOR THE LATE MODEL NOZZLES TO MAKE THE ULTIMATE STEERING COMPATIBLE!!! just send me a mail This is a good combination for the keel and rudder 19 foot boats that can not use the MEGA FANGS due to the keel being in the way, Just a reminder the viper has fangs on it and that does work on the keel and rudder 19 foot boats.

 

[FloJet]

The magnum A K system is.
I placed an order for a special set of side force stabilizers to allow the ultimate steering to also be compatible if you have the late style nozzles if you have the early style I can also have special side force stabilizers for that as well , The mega fang system also provides reverse handling ,power steering and improved stopping for half the price and it is compatible with all the boats except the 19 foot keel models as I said previously. And it will work with thrust vectors so more options for the members .

Hmm good to know. Glad it can be compatible. Gotta love America.

 

[Mike Courterier]

I am presently running the Magnum AK's with Mega Fangs on my 210 FSH Sport.

I have only had the boat out a few times, all with the Cobra's installed, so cannot compare to factory or the Thrust Vectors but I can say that compared to my previous two boats (twin outboard and single I/O) it handles as well as or better than both, especially around the launch dock and backing into my slip.

I initially reported to Jeff that I was experiencing quite a bit of bow wander at mid speed 15-20 MPH but found out this past weekend that it was wind and/or current that was the culprit as with the recent two trips, the handling at all speeds was spot on.

I had previously watched Foobar's video of his Thrust Vector test and was anxious/curious to test handling while decelerating. Jeff had told me that the Cobra's would provide control in that environment and he was right... not only did I not lose control but I was able to paint a lazy "S" when coming off of 40+.

I didn't take any photos/videos while underway but here are a couple pics of my install.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Here is a point of interest on the Yamaha jet boats . Someone may want you to believe that it is not good to have any fins in the water at speed because it could cause issues yet we see a huge rudder attached to a nozzle that actually operates that rudder via a tie rod being sold on the market by the boat Yamaha.
All the forces of that very large rudder are placed on that one nozzle including any side impact when the boat is in shallow water and allowed to hit the ground. The manufacturer has no issues with this obviously, however I believe it is better to distribute that work load evenly to both nozzles by adding a second tie rod to this setup. And many people see the value in this and have it on their A K boats.
Now also consider that I have about 15 years of making steering for Yamaha jet boats with many thousands of those in use having fins operating all the time , at all speeds and many people on this board have had my steering on their boats for many years and still do . So that sets aside those arguments pretty easily. it isn't new nor is it a problem!
I would think after all those boats and all those years an average person would not have any issues with steering fins mounted on boats to make them steer all the time.
To add to this common sense approach I make something called the mega fangs , using the principal that having a portion of a rudder extending forward of the pivot point actually decreases resistance created by the rudder behind the pivot point when it is turning, thereby reducing the amount of added resistance from having rudders or fins in the water working to steer the boat at all speeds. GREAT IDEA ! And great steering control !
These mega fangs also create extra control in reverse on a Yamaha boat due to how the water exits the bottom of the nozzle to provide the reverse steering and reverse thrust simply by focusing that reverse thrust in a more concentrated fashion. IT IS REALLY BASIC ! like a garden hose nozzle restrict the water and get better thrust !
Thus the boat responds better to reverse steering and also has improved braking without taking away from the total amount of reverse thrust it has to work with.
Now consider that we are making all this for a fraction of the cost of other reverse parts being made that do not offer any of the other features so you get more and pay less. It's true!
Additionally we intend to offer this to people with a variety of steering systems if they so choose. We will be opening up options for people to decide freely what system they feel is best for their needs.
We will be covering our systems with our warranty and 30 day money back guarantee as we do with all our products regardless of who has " what" on "where" with "whatever" feels right for their budget and needs.
I certainly hope people choose my parts just as a matter of common sense " 30 day money back guarantee"! and proven results. But if they choose to mix my parts with other parts it is up to them I am happy to have been able To accommodate this. That's just the way it should be and the way it will be. Thanks . NOW I hope others can follow suit but if not I may go to a "TAKE IT OFF ALL OFF SALE" and allow people to trade in their other systems and really upgrade to a full time adjustable and more practical system that does not have a problem with them trying different things for their boat. So I am glad to have been able to help so many jet boat owners enjoy their jet boats over the years and I hope to continue on that path if the head nurse here will continue to allow me to build parts in my room.

 

[Sbrown]

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC I'm curious, can I get just the extra tie bar?

 

[Scottintexas]

yet we see a huge rudder attached to a nozzle that actually operates that rudder via a tie rod being sold on the market by the boat Yamaha..

IT"S NOT A RUDDER !!!!!!

It's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, It's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, It's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, It's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel, it's an articulating keel,

(a rudder by any other inventive marketing name is still a rudder)

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

The second tie rod is available on my web page as a stand alone purchase including the hardware so yes you can https://cobrajetsteering.com/cjs-mangnum-ak-stand-alone-tie-rod-set.html You can also add just the mega fangs for reverse steering, power steering and better stopping power as well

 

[Mainah]

There seems to be two similar threads going right now. I was tagged in this one so I will offer my .02. First and foremost the guys behind both products are great to work with (personal experience with both) and both continue to innovate. This site is a major source of marketing and consumer education for both of them so I give them both a pass on the back and forth. No different than Apple vs Samsung or Verizon vs Att and each of my prefered had licks against them that I thought were spot on.

When I saw the lateral thrusters I thought wow that is a seriously cool innovation and I am sure that a lot of time went into it. Kudos to Will for thinking outside the box. Then I saw the megas and began to ponder which I would get. I already had the aks with original fangs. I have one of the most difficult docking situations you can imagine albeit by choice to be more protected and to have my spring line take the shock instead of the hull aginst the dock when things get windy and rough. I really need more reverse control when it is windy as it takes more than one attempt sometimes (I retry before making it worse).

I also really need the tracking for wakeboarding as like to carve way out and hard. I reached out to another member to get first hand opinions on the mega fangs but will leave them nameless unless they wish to chime in. Based on what I was told I decided to go with the mega fangs and just got them installed but not tested yet. I was told that reverse was improved but what really got me was a candid account of how aggressively these thing help the boat turn at high speed. Sounded a lot more like my older jet boats that could do spins. I really miss the spins and while this won’t be the same I still love G forces.

That was my decision making and I will post honest opinions once I have had enough time to truly test the mega fangs in various conditions. Now I think Jeff is saying that he is working on something so I could also add the lateral thrusters. In which case if I am still not happy with how I can dock I might give that a try and assume any unsupported risks of mixing the products as that is my choice. I hope I don’t have to though as that would mean both Jeff and Will get more of my $.

Happy fin-vector-fang-thruster hunting.

 

[swatski]

There seems to be two similar threads going right now. I was tagged in this one so I will offer my .02. First and foremost the guys behind both products are great to work with (personal experience with both) and both continue to innovate. This site is a major source of marketing and consumer education for both of them so I give them both a pass on the back and forth. No different than Apple vs Samsung or Verizon vs Att and each of my prefered had licks against them that I thought were spot on.

When I saw the lateral thrusters I thought wow that is a seriously cool innovation and I am sure that a lot of time went into it. Kudos to Will for thinking outside the box. Then I saw the megas and began to ponder which I would get. I already had the aks with original fangs. I have one of the most difficult docking situations you can imagine albeit by choice to be more protected and to have my spring line take the shock instead of the hull aginst the dock when things get windy and rough. I really need more reverse control when it is windy as it takes more than one attempt sometimes (I retry before making it worse).

I also really need the tracking for wakeboarding as like to carve way out and hard. I reached out to another member to get first hand opinions on the mega fangs but will leave them nameless unless they wish to chime in. Based on what I was told I decided to go with the mega fangs and just got them installed but not tested yet. I was told that reverse was improved but what really got me was a candid account of how aggressively these thing help the boat turn at high speed. Sounded a lot more like my older jet boats that could do spins. I really miss the spins and while this won’t be the same I still love G forces.

That was my decision making and I will post honest opinions once I have had enough time to truly test the mega fangs in various conditions. Now I think Jeff is saying that he is working on something so I could also add the lateral thrusters. In which case if I am still not happy with how I can dock I might give that a try and assume any unsupported risks of mixing the products as that is my choice. I hope I don’t have to though as that would mean both Jeff and Will get more of my $.

Happy fin-vector-fang-thruster hunting.

Well - keep us posted, very interested in your findings.
As they say: "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"!
A very old proverb, still spot-on.

--

 

[Mainah]

Well - keep us posted, very interested in your findings.
As they say: "the proof of the pudding is in the eating"!
A very old proverb, still spot-on.

--

I prefer to proof alcohol as opposed to pudding even though the gunpowder tastes awful. New saying by yours truly but I don’t think it will catch on like like the pudding proverb.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

My Cobra set up (MEGA I think?) turned me from amateur to pro overnight in regards to docking. Tracking improved at all speeds (especially slow, which is huge because have a ton of no wake zones), and seem to be minimal, if any, loss of speed at turning WOT (have a tricky channel that requires a 90 degree turn, so plenty of tests).

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

My Cobra set up (MEGA I think?) turned me from amateur to pro overnight in regards to docking. Tracking improved at all speeds (especially slow, which is huge because have a ton of no wake zones), and seem to be minimal, if any, loss of speed at turning WOT (have a tricky channel that requires a 90 degree turn, so plenty of tests).

You have the magnum A K system and the Mega Fangs on your boat and thank you for your feedback.
I only wish people would do what webpages like this were meant to do " share information"! When people attack someone for posting their honest opinion just because they disagree or they are in one camp or another it totally derails the information and it's message.
Unfortunately it appears to be the norm.
This web page was supposed to open up information and promote freedom of expression on the site but sadly it has fallen short of this goal many times and this is disappointing to me.
I had a conversation with scarab mike when he posted the issues with steering on the scarab section and I noticed that the original post was re done and diluted .
In some of this subject the moderators were involved in trying to modify the content.
SAD because if the free flow of information is diluted, interfered with, or corrupted by peoples personal feelings it cheats everyone.
The members that make an important decision based on edited information will make a misinformed one
and that does not serve the members.
I do a lot of posting to contribute to the community knowing the politicks that go on behind the scene and I will continue to but I ask people to also contribute to the common benefit of this community and step up to the plate to share your experiences with all of us and not shy away from posting the truth no matter how it may be received or the fallout from the group of disruptors who want to hide the truth.
By attacking people they make those and others shut up and take a back seat.
So there is a method to their madness and it works , it happens every time and it works but it needs to stop!
So I would suggest that when we get people sent in to disrupt the flow of information everyone should jump in and ask them to stop PERIOD!
The truth and the freedom to post without the fear of being attacked for telling the truth is what this web site was supposed to have been put into place to accomplish and honestly I appreciated the notion.
When I joined this web site I was called at home numerous times by Bruce asking me to join and I honestly had reservations as I had a long standing presence on the other web site.
I only agreed to abandon the other web site and join here when the site owner shut down the site to control information and then put several people who were like myself often spoke their mind or just called it like they saw it as I am doing here and now.
I am sharing this with you because I feel that the web site is a valuable site but it has some growing to do in my opinion if it really wished to accomplish it's goa.
As I see things, I bet , even though I have not been told this!!! there are a group of members with agendas that will privately contact people that post things that they do not agree with and harass them to discourage their posts.
I sure hope I am wrong but I ask you to post your personal experiences if you are not afraid just to get this out in the open and hopefully put a stop to it if it is occurring.
I understand that people get wound up on some subjects but if you allow people to interfere with the free flow of important information you cheat everyone here.
Also for the record I asked people who contacted me to just sit back and leave this alone to avoid falling into the trap.
I said if they had positive information that they wished to share fine but not to go tit for tat or swap insults because it just diminishes the importance of this thread and their credibility is also tarnished, I don't want to see this happening here like it did on the other web site and I was just as guilty as the next one in that respect.
If we continue to do what we have always done we will get the same results.
I do steering because it was and is my baby , I make my living doing it and have done so for over 15 years but first and foremost It's my baby.
I design everything myself I am the single name on all the patents. I fund everything because It is MY BABY. I enjoy doing what I do . Thank you.

 

[Mjones]

I'm convinced. Just sent in my order to upgrade to the Mega Fangs. I was on the fence thinking there is no way it can add that much to the AK system, but after these reviews it's hard not to believe. Hell, if it improves 10% of what the steering system does then it's worth the $220.00 - If I selected the wrong one please correct and bill me.

Thank you

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

you ordered the correct one and remember it comes with my 30 day money back guarantee so it's a non issue, if you don't love it just send it back.