The Texas School Shooting

[RNYCLV]

You can't see the difference?

In life being a balance between personal life and work life.
Absolutely, but does a gun man storming the cash register while I'm buying my daughters bubblegum care if I am working or enjoying family time.
The difference between my life being taken while working or while being on the lake with my children may be challenged medically and I can't control that. However use of deadly force can be prevented with words, actions and finally with equal force. That may not be how you live and i appreciate that. However it is how I maintain a balance in my work/personal life.

Still waiting on your answer, Once again I have answered all of your questions honestly

 

[Bluewater272]

Why would you not have/carry something even more effective if your intent is to not be "out-gunned?"

I'll answer another, are you going to answer one of mine?

The next step up is fully automatic. I'm unlikely to face that, its already illegal, its prohibitively expensive to train with, it limits my ability to remain accurate, and if I find myself in a position where I need to lay down heavy suppressive fire, well I'm probably already not escaping that situation. Any other clarifications needed? Are you going to ask me next why I don't need a howitzer mounted in my truck, or a UAV armed with hellfires following me to work?

 

[thefortunes]

In life being a balance between personal life and work life.
Absolutely, but does a gun man storming the cash register while I'm buying my daughters bubblegum care if I am working or enjoying family time.
The difference between my life being taken while working or while being on the lake with my children may be challenged medically and I can't control that. However use of deadly force can be prevented with words, actions and finally with equal force. That may not be how you live and i appreciate that. However it is how I maintain a balance in my work/personal life.

Still waiting on your answer, Once again I have answered all of your questions honestly

Thank you for the reasoned response and I can appreciate your viewpoint.

You are correct, it is not how I live and, as I've stated it has served me fine in various scenarios where some here may have applied "equal force."

I am not sure of a question for which you are awaiting an answer.

 

[jcb1977]

I've asked this 4 times so far and received one (now deleted "cuz I want one") answer...

Someone please explain why you need a semi-automatic weapon.

having a semi-auto shotgun is pretty nice when shooting trap or 5 stand. follow-up shots when rifle hunting are much easier with semi-auto vs bolt or lever action. handguns are really only available in semi-auto.

 

[Bluewater272]

In life being a balance between personal life and work life.
Absolutely, but does a gun man storming the cash register while I'm buying my daughters bubblegum care if I am working or enjoying family time.
The difference between my life being taken while working or while being on the lake with my children may be challenged medically and I can't control that. However use of deadly force can be prevented with words, actions and finally with equal force. That may not be how you live and i appreciate that. However it is how I maintain a balance in my work/personal life.

Still waiting on your answer, Once again I have answered all of your questions honestly

To go another step further outside his grasp of logic - its OK for a police officer to carry one because of the threats they face. The threats they face are the ones we task them to protect us from... when they may be 5 or 30 or 60 minutes away from being able to intervene.

 

[Bluewater272]

having a semi-auto shotgun is pretty nice when shooting trap or 5 stand.

Except when the curmudgeon in the next station gripes about the shells, lol.

 

[Beachbummer]

Folks looking for legal protection carry what they can. Given a choice between all legal options, this is the most effective allowed. There's a reason the saying bringing a knife to a gun fight. With a gun, it at least gives the perception of a fighting chance.

If you feel responsible enough and brave enough to carry one to defend yourself, why would you carry something less effective?

I stand by my statement, I really don't grasp your question as asked. The answer is plain and obvious if you stretch your imagination a bit and imagine you are trying to protect from possible harm from someone holding a firearm and wishing to harm you. What kind of weapon would you choose to protect yourself in that situation?

 

[thefortunes]

To go another step further outside his grasp of logic - its OK for a police officer to carry one because of the threats they face. The threats they face are the ones we task them to protect us from... when they may be 5 or 30 or 60 minutes away from being able to intervene.

Interesting theory "outside my grasp of logic." You literally have no idea of my background.

I'm sorry for those who feel threatened to the point that they (in their daily, non-professional lives) think they need that type of personal protection.

Good luck to all of you this weekend.

 

[Bluewater272]

Interesting theory "outside my grasp of logic." You literally have no idea of my background.

I'm sorry for those who feel threatened to the point that they (in their daily, non-professional lives) think they need that type of personal protection.

Good luck to all of you this weekend.

So you're not going to answer any of the dozen reasonable questions sent in your direction? Got it. That was a nice deflection.

 

[RNYCLV]

Thank you for the reasoned response and I can appreciate your viewpoint.

You are correct, it is not how I live and, as I've stated it has served me fine in various scenarios where some here may have applied "equal force."

I am not sure of which question you are awaiting an answer.

I respect that you don't choose to carry or that you oppose carry. I am not here to judge you based on your beliefs. You are extremely fortunate to have been able to regain control over a potential fatal situation. That's truly commendable, however, and I am not being argumentative. How many victims were not that lucky? I don't hail those who carry a firearm heroes. In fact in most situations they do more harm than good if not properly trained ( a discussion for a different day) however there are people who make the attempt to progress their craft and maintain a skillset that affords them an upper hand in potential unfavorable situations. I don't feel carrying is for everyone, I don't feel firearms ownership is for everyone. I also don't feel that a 17 year old should be behind the wheel of a 300 horsepower Hellcat, but I love going fast. I also don't think pot should be legal, but it helps so many others so use it. I truly think there should be regulation on what a person should be allowed to consume at a bar, but I enjoy a beer on a hot day. I don't get to pick and choose. What works for some may not work for all.

I uploaded four images a few posts back asking if you could identify the semi auto platform.

 

[Bluewater272]

And, in case you want to feign an inability to see where a question was posed, here they all are:

As opposed to what kind of weapon?

Semi automatic means you pull trigger and it fires.

Maybe a musket is not semi automatic?

Sorry, I truly ask with sincerity. Can you elaborate? Do you mean a rifle that can be accurate at a great distance? Semi-automatic means just that. One trigger pull, one shot

Is this a serious question? Do you know what semi-automatic means? Can you tell me why you need a car that can exceed any speed limit in the country (since that's the illogical comparison of choice in this thread)?

View attachment 178959View attachment 178958View attachment 178960View attachment 178961

here are four images can you tell me which one is Semi Automatic?
I will answer your question once you answer mine. I have zero to hide

I'd be happy to read the plethora of studies that would conclude that there is no defensive merit to owning a firearm. I'd wager a guess that you're going to tell me that I'm more likely to die of suicide with one, than I am to defend myself with one. Guess what? The same is true of my kitchen knives, box cutter, and any of my half a dozen carbon monoxide emitting motors.

No working life, do you get to pick when bad things happen in life?

Fine. I answer yours, now answer mine.

- Do you know what a semi automatic weapon is?
- Why do you consider it a 'superior firepower' to all threats a civilian is likely to face?
- Where are those studies that show they are useless to defend life?


I'm well aware that my possession of a firearm does not ensure my safety. In any given moment, if someone broke into my home while I'm sitting on the couch watching TV, nine times out of ten they could execute me before I could get to mine. Does that mean I shouldn't have one?

 

[BlkGS]

I respect that you don't choose to carry or that you oppose carry. I am not here to judge you based on your beliefs. You are extremely fortunate to have been able to regain control over a potential fatal situation. That's truly commendable, however, and I am not being argumentative. How many victims were not that lucky? I don't hail those who carry a firearm heroes. In fact in most situations they do more harm than good if not properly trained ( a discussion for a different day) however there are people who make the attempt to progress their craft and maintain a skillset that affords them an upper hand in potential unfavorable situations. I don't feel carrying is for everyone, I don't feel firearms ownership is for everyone. I also don't feel that a 17 year old should be behind the wheel of a 300 horsepower Hellcat, but I love going fast. I also don't think pot should be legal, but it helps so many others so use it. I truly think there should be regulation on what a person should be allowed to consume at a bar, but I enjoy a beer on a hot day. I don't get to pick and choose. What works for some may not work for all.

I uploaded four images a few posts back asking if you could identify the semi auto platform.

Hellcat are 700 hp minimum, not 300, lol.

 

[RNYCLV]

Hellcat are 700 hp minimum, not 300, lol.

lol, even worse....

 

[thefortunes]

And, in case you want to feign an inability to see where a question was posed, here they all are:

1) I answered with a definition for 5 of those.

2) Not interested in looking up the various firearms to see which is semi-automatic because I'm sure there is a "gotcha" in there and it is irrelevant to the discussion. As is the false equivalency to automobiles, kitchen knives, etc...

3) Google is your friend of you are truly curious about studies related to the efficacy of firearms in civilian hands vs an attacker.

 

[RNYCLV]

1) I answered with a definition for 5 of those.

2) Not interested in looking up the various firearms to see which is semi-automatic because I'm sure there is a "gotcha" in there and it is irrelevant to the discussion. As is the false equivalency to automobiles, kitchen knives, etc...

3) Google is your friend of you are truly curious about studies related to the efficacy of firearms in civilian hands vs an attacker.

There is a gotcha, three out of the four are semi automatic. I was trying to show that visual appearance has zero to do with its lethality. Plain and simple. The only one that was not semi in those four was the pump action AR-15, which is typically picked as the scary rifle. I was trying to see response to that. The FBI has extensive studies on just that and is completely downloadable. You can even email and request a PDF to be sent directly to you.

 

[thefortunes]

There is a gotcha, three out of the four are semi automatic. I was trying to show that visual appearance has zero to do with its lethality. Plain and simple. The only one that was not semi in those four was the pump action AR-15, which is typically picked as the scary rifle. I was trying to see response to that. The FBI has extensive studies on just that and is completely downloadable. You can even email and request a PDF to be sent directly to you.

Last I knew the stats were 3% of armed shooter situations were resolved by citizens with a weapon and 13% by unarmed citizens.

 

[Bluewater272]

1) I answered with a definition for 5 of those.

2) Not interested in looking up the various firearms to see which is semi-automatic because I'm sure there is a "gotcha" in there and it is irrelevant to the discussion. As is the false equivalency to automobiles, kitchen knives, etc...

3) Google is your friend of you are truly curious about studies related to the efficacy of firearms in civilian hands vs an attacker.

Guess I can save myself a few keystrokes:

And here come all the non-answers. Lol.

Just answer the question.

 

[RNYCLV]

Last I knew the stats were 3% of armed shooter situations were resolved by citizens with a weapon and 13% by unarmed citizens.

That is true, if you look further that is also when more than one potential victim acted. Out of the 13 percent In the study you are referring to from most all were involving multiple people subduing the gunman. I still agree less than lethal is always better than lethal

 

[RNYCLV]

With that, I am calling truce, it has been fun, however I'm here for the boats......lol
I appreciate everyone's banter and insight. Hope everyone has a great night and I pray that we dont have another headline like the one this topic is based off of. See you all in a different forum!

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Last I knew the stats were 3% of armed shooter situations were resolved by citizens with a weapon and 13% by unarmed citizens.

This is a useless statistic. Majority of people do not carry daily, so we would expect that % to be lower than unarmed, simply because unarmed citizens greatly outnumber armed (as far as daily carry).