The Texas School Shooting

[Julian]

Hope everyone has a great night and I pray that we dont have another headline like the one this topic is based off of.

Oh I guarantee we'll have another headline like this in the not too distant future. Your prayers won't stop it. Action will, and clearly far too many Americans are ok with the status quo and don't want to change it. So the killing will continue. No change in healthcare, no change to ownership and carry laws.

Kids will grow up learning from their parents that owning and having a gun in necessary to protect themselves from evil doers. This in and of itself puts people from childhood into the state of mind that they must have a gun and be willing to use it. Even Israelis think this is nuts (and they are often portrayed as the poster child of gun freedom - when in actual fact it is very hard to get a permit to carry a handgun in Israel).

Every time we have another multi fatality shooting of kids, lots of ideas are proposed for ways we could reduce the killing - yet we do nothing. Those impacted the most become the most fervent advocates - yet nothing happens. Primary because far too many Americans firmly believe that the abundance of guns aren't part of the problem. Some even say more guns will reduce gun deaths.

 

[Beachbummer]

We could confiscate all, Australia style, but I don't see that accepted by the population on the short term.

@Julian, what is your proposed fix? What could we do?

 

[AZMark]

What a semantic shitshow that last couple pages were. Replace the term semi automatic with assault rifle and try again.

 

[Wake_Dude]

IMO, you could rid the US of every last firearm and it still wouldn't solve the issue. The deranged shitbags would just get more crafty with their tactics. There are hundreds of ways to kill off an assload of people without firing a single shot. The gun is not the problem.

 

[Ronnie]

we are really down in the and weeds, actually the roots of the weeds here.

I saw several news stories on this last night. The one that hit hard (because but for the grace of God or karma go I) was when they took the time to post a picture of each victim while they stated their name and age. “Jane kid, 9 years old, Joe kid, 10 years old” and on an on”. Those poor kids didn’t have a chance, neither do church goers or most employees at work, like shooting fish in a barrel. At least in gang related shootings it’s more likely both sides have guns.

40 minutes is a long time especially since there were officers on site before and when it all went down. Remember the shooting (maybe it was the parkland massacre) where the on-site officer decided to stand outside after calling the incident in)? As I recall that guy retired early with full benefits and got off because he was just following protocol. I know parents that would run in naked and on fire to protect their kids. How does an 18 year old with no formal training accomplish this v. Numerous trained officers with decades of combined experience? Maybe we should be hiring 18 year olds to defend our schools.

We can’t do shit about it but we are here arguing about what should be done anyway. I’m going to ignore this thread going forward, hearing the news about is depressing enough for me.

but I will leave you all with this, a text I just received.

 

[BigN8]

Sorry, I should have been clear, I was referring to the Chicago borders PRIOR to their restrictive guns laws being struck down. My point still stands, you just need to drive to a locality where you can buy whatever you want... which is simple in the US.

You are correct, he had to have a federal background check - no state or local checks.

No clue what that long list is. If its a list of places you can't buy ammo....you can get ammo via mail order...perfect example of the stupidity of local laws.

I live in TX. I can’t drive to Oklahoma and buy a gun. Just isn’t possible. You must live in the state you are buying a gun. Now. Private sale is different. And I agree with HR-8. I think the NRA and Senators should find common ground and approve this legislation. It’s a start.

 

[Julian]

what is your proposed fix? What could we do?

We could do one or any of the following:

• Make guns hard to get (ban gun ownership)
• Make guns harder to keep (licensing, location based restrictions like - you can have a gun - but it stays at the gun club you must be a member of) etc
• Make guns more costly to keep (expensive licenses)
• Improve healthcare so people can get mental health help
• Make more smart guns - FORCE manufacturers to only sell them eventually
• Make geofenced guns
• Make gun makers make more/better non-lethal defensive weapons (theory being this would reduce the number of lethal weapons in circulation)
• Gun buy back programs (after doing some of the above) - so you remove them from circulation
• Limit gun carry laws - humans are volatile and often easy to anger. Put a gun in that guys hand who flies off the handle, and eventually he'll use it when he's mad.
• Require classes to own a gun - again...makes it harder for the teen to get one. And harder for him to hide it from family.
• Increase background checks to mental health, school teachers, etc. YES limit the rights of who can own one.
• Physical tests to determine if you should own a gun - are you blind? Do you have dementia?
• Give financial incentives to buy non-lethal defensive weapons
• Stop selling military grade weapons to civilians. (yes I know what this means so don't patronize me)

So many things off the top of my head.

 

[BigN8]

Over the past 6 hours that this debate has raged on this inconsequential forum 48 people have died from Fentanyl poisoning. Yet no headlines. No grandstanding by politicians. No changes to the border. You are all victims of the media echo chamber we live in.

 

[Beachbummer]

What a semantic shitshow that last couple pages were. Replace the term semi automatic with assault rifle and try again.

I almost disliked your post, Next time you think this one, don't share it! ;-)

 

[Julian]

Over the past 6 hours that this debate has raged on this inconsequential forum 48 people have died from Fentanyl poisoning. Yet no headlines. No grandstanding by politicians. No changes to the border. You are all victims of the media echo chamber we live in.

And cancer and covid....pointless redirection. Yes drug deaths are also important, that doesn't mean we can just ignore gun deaths. Failed logic.

Feel free to start a whole new thread on fentanyl deaths. It will get far less press as most people look at that as "well they chose to take drugs...." These kids did not chose to get themselves shot. Quite a different problem - but yes....still a problem.

 

[Beachbummer]

Over the past 6 hours that this debate has raged on this inconsequential forum 48 people have died from Fentanyl poisoning. Yet no headlines. No grandstanding by politicians. No changes to the border. You are all victims of the media echo chamber we live in.

The population at large is less sensitive to those deaths as opposed to defenseless kids at school because families do have kids at school, and may not see the Fentanyl deaths as affecting them directly, it's mostly associated with some form of drug use too, so much easier to not relate to those. I am not surprised by the difference between them, and I somewhat share the thought. I hope that does not make me a horrible person, but it is what it is.

 

[RNYCLV]

Kids will grow up learning from their parents that owning and having a gun in necessary to protect themselves from evil doers. This in and of itself puts people from childhood into the state of mind that they must have a gun and be willing to use it. Even Israelis think this is nuts (and they are often portrayed as the poster child of gun freedom - when in actual fact it is very hard to get a permit to carry a handgun in Israel).

This statement couldn't be farther from the truth, I work with the IDF on a nearly monthly basis. They enforce the importance of firearms and firearms training. They have the largest weapons development programs in the world and spend countless hours training youth who by law must serve once they turn 18 the proper handling of firearms and rifles. Its a country founded on war, living in fear of war daily. Teachers are trained in the workings of FULLY automatic rifle and carry them in school and out of school. I'll stress that EDUCATORs carrying fully automatic rifles to protect children.
You are 100 % correct things wont change, the mind set is effed, there is too much my way is right and your way is wrong for people to truly find a resolution. My prayers will be heard and answered, it takes people willing to make changes for changes to happen, not just people arguing about it on a boat forum.

 

[RNYCLV]

Once again, I am done with this, its gone from intelligent to asinine. Personal opinions on this matter mean nothing, kids lost their lives, families were torn apart, a town will never be the same. And we argue opinion. Its sad, get back to boats please. Delete this forum and move on, its past the point of favorable.

 

[Beachbummer]

We could do one or any of the following:

• Make guns hard to get (ban gun ownership)
• Make guns harder to keep (licensing, location based restrictions like - you can have a gun - but it stays at the gun club you must be a member of) etc
• Make guns more costly to keep (expensive licenses)
• Improve healthcare so people can get mental health help
• Make more smart guns - FORCE manufacturers to only sell them eventually
• Make geofenced guns
• Make gun makers make more/better non-lethal defensive weapons (theory being this would reduce the number of lethal weapons in circulation)
• Gun buy back programs (after doing some of the above) - so you remove them from circulation
• Limit gun carry laws - humans are volatile and often easy to anger. Put a gun in that guys hand who flies off the handle, and eventually he'll use it when he's mad.
• Require classes to own a gun - again...makes it harder for the teen to get one. And harder for him to hide it from family.
• Increase background checks to mental health, school teachers, etc. YES limit the rights of who can own one.
• Physical tests to determine if you should own a gun - are you blind? Do you have dementia?
• Give financial incentives to buy non-lethal defensive weapons
• Stop selling military grade weapons to civilians. (yes I know what this means so don't patronize me)

So many things off the top of my head.

Hey, some good ideas. I think Smart guns and geofenced guns are very tricky, anything that depends on an external signal to function stops being reliable and/or allows bad actors to deactivate your weapon.

How bad will it have to get before the population changes its mind?... not sure, maybe never. Some look to challenge some ingrained values, so very hard to make popular.

 

[Beachbummer]

Once again, I am done with this, its gone from intelligent to asinine. Personal opinions on this matter mean nothing, kids lost their lives, families were torn apart, a town will never be the same. And we argue opinion. Its sad, get back to boats please. Delete this post and move on, its past the point of favorable.

Feel free to take advantage of the "Ignore thread" option if you don't want to see it. Instant removal from your view. humble suggestion.

 

[RNYCLV]

Feel free to take advantage of the "Ignore thread" option if you don't want to see it. Instant removal from your view. humble suggestion.

Thank you in my ignorance to that or my never thinking I would need it on a boat forum I didn't see it. Never expected to have to ignore a thread within a jetboat community. Sad, I love the boat stuff and the funny memes though

 

[AZMark]

I almost disliked your post, Next time you think this one, don't share it! ;-)

That’s ok you can dislike me, others here certainly have! That was just a frustrating bunch of bickering to read.

I stand by my point though, many of those arguments are not relevant for an assault rifle.

To follow one of the examples, how many people have been saved while buying bubble gum when they pulled their AR out of their pocket and took down the criminal. How often is an AR actually used in self defense? (Real question and I bet it’s near zero).

I own guns, not an AR, but I’ve shot them plenty and they are death machines. MAYBE this incident could have still gone the way it did with a handgun because apparently they just left this psycho in the building for an hour, but most of these fast high casualty shootings could not inflict nearly as much damage with a semi auto pistol. Then again maybe the police would have gone in right away against a pistol.

These aren’t usually trained people doing these shootings. Those guns are so easy and fast and stable to shoot that even a deranged pussy of a kid that’s rarely or never trained with a firearm can kill dozens of people in 2 minutes. Not to mention they’ll easily shoot straight through desks and walls and everything else and still kill someone.

The gun isn’t the root of the problem but it’s definitely contributing to the scale of damage. Otherwise it wouldn’t be the exact same weapon over and over.

 

[Beachbummer]

It was added due to a prior thread that turned a bit like this one. I admit between the more common echo chambers and at least a place to read what others are thinking, even if much different than my opinion, I prefer the second, but I realize not everyone thinks the same way.

 

[Beachbummer]

The gun isn’t the root of the problem but it’s definitely contributing to the scale of damage. Otherwise it wouldn’t be the exact same weapon over and over.

These guns are very effective tools at what they are supposed to do. They maximize the power of the holder to hit hard at whatever they are pointing at. If it's a crappy actor, it amplifies the crappy consequences of their actions. I'm happy to hear an argument against the statement, but I think it holds very well.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

That’s ok you can dislike me, others here certainly have! That was just a frustrating bunch of bickering to read.

I stand by my point though, many of those arguments are not relevant for an assault rifle.

To follow one of the examples, how many people have been saved while buying bubble gum when they pulled their AR out of their pocket and took down the criminal. How often is an AR actually used in self defense? (Real question and I bet it’s near zero).

I own guns, not an AR, but I’ve shot them plenty and they are death machines. MAYBE this incident could have still gone the way it did with a handgun because apparently they just left this psycho in the building for an hour, but most of these fast high casualty shootings could not inflict nearly as much damage with a semi auto pistol. Then again maybe the police would have gone in right away against a pistol.

These aren’t usually trained people doing these shootings. Those guns are so easy and fast and stable to shoot that even a deranged pussy of a kid that’s rarely or never trained with a firearm can kill dozens of people in 2 minutes. Not to mention they’ll easily shoot straight through desks and walls and everything else and still kill someone.

The gun isn’t the root of the problem but it’s definitely contributing to the scale of damage. Otherwise it wouldn’t be the exact same weapon over and over.

For someone that owns you have a lot of incorrect assumptions.