The Vaccine

[haknslash]

Vox. I’ll pass....

Its strange to see people slam ivertmectin when just years ago rallied for its noble prize award use in fighting horrible parasite diseases against both humans and animals. Strange how the world turns. Understand I’m not pro-ivermectin or anything. I just find it fascinating how the hivemind works (or doesn’t I should say). One day you’re a hero and the next day you’re a villain. Interesting times we live in.

Nobel Prize-Winning Drug Ivermectin May Fight Malaria

Resurrecting old drugs for unmet medical needs—known more formally as drug repurposing—was an important message in the Nobel Prize for Medicine earlier this month. It came up today, too, with the intriguing study showing that the antiparasitic drug, ivermectin, appears promising for disrupting...

www.forbes.com

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015 was divided, one half jointly to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura "for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites" and the other half to Tu Youyou "for her discoveries concerning a novel...

www.nobelprize.org

 

[Acard7]

In the past few weeks we have seen people go from cough, some shortness of breath, and fever at night to unresponsive or dead by morning. This is shocking our rural area now. 44 year old the youngest so far that has passed, partly because he didn’t want to go to the ER just yet, even called his PCP to talk about his symptoms but never made it in, thought he could sleep it off I assume.

My coworker found his wife unresponsive after he got off work in the morning (a couple days ago now), but still breathing. He worked her up in their small town squad and met another squad while enroute for extra help. They got to the hospital and it wasn’t long and she was on the vent. He regrets not flying her because she sat in the rural ER for 3 hours before an ICU bed opened up 4 hours away from home. He now can’t see his wife for 22 more days, they allowed him to have a 2 hour compassion visit due to him living so far away. We went over to sit outside with him (he has recovered from Covid) to help ease his mind. Brought him freezer meals which tears were shed between us, he’s a guy who never asks for help yet has been in firefighting and EMS for longer than I’ve been alive. He got a call from the palliative care doctor, he’s giving her a 50/50 chance to make it, she is improving but they know she will have good and bad days. Both him and his wife are unvaccinated, she isn’t the pillar of health, but has never been this sick ever in her life..

My boss for another service I work for has been down for the count for over two weeks now. Him, his wife, and one year old son got covid. Both him and his wife unvaccinated, both in very good health, and both are 39 and 41 in age. Their 1 year old is just a little crabby and pretty sure he’s over it now thankfully… But him and his wife still can’t do anything without getting out of breath. They have had the antibody treatments already.. They also are taking a few other meds including ivermectin, colchicine, doxycycline, and prednisone.. @tabbibus im a lowly paramedic, lol, my med base is limited to more emergency stuff, I know prednisone is a steroid and obviously know that ivermectin is the savior of covid (sarcasm here), but what is the reasoning behind doxy and the Colchicine?

Now my mother in law is sick with it and has yet to go to the hospital, she is high risk, unvaccinated. Has obviously been trying ivermectin ? she’s short of breath now so we are trying to get her to go to the damn ER.

Be careful and stay safe everyone. Have a few vaccinated friends that have come down with it now too, nothing serious yet though between them.

 

[tabbibus]

Vox. I’ll pass....

Its strange to see people slam ivertmectin when just years ago rallied for its noble prize award use in fighting horrible parasite diseases against both humans and animals. Strange how the world turns. Understand I’m not pro-ivermectin or anything. I just find it fascinating how the hivemind works (or doesn’t I should say). One day you’re a hero and the next day you’re a villain. Interesting times we live in.

Nobel Prize-Winning Drug Ivermectin May Fight Malaria

Resurrecting old drugs for unmet medical needs—known more formally as drug repurposing—was an important message in the Nobel Prize for Medicine earlier this month. It came up today, too, with the intriguing study showing that the antiparasitic drug, ivermectin, appears promising for disrupting...

www.forbes.com

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015 was divided, one half jointly to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura "for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites" and the other half to Tu Youyou "for her discoveries concerning a novel...

www.nobelprize.org

Ivermectin is not being put down for it's intended use. It is an amazing drug. The push back is on it's role in covid. That is a completely different discussion.

In the past few weeks we have seen people go from cough, some shortness of breath, and fever at night to unresponsive or dead by morning. This is shocking our rural area now. 44 year old the youngest so far that has passed, partly because he didn’t want to go to the ER just yet, even called his PCP to talk about his symptoms but never made it in, thought he could sleep it off I assume.

My coworker found his wife unresponsive after he got off work in the morning (a couple days ago now), but still breathing. He worked her up in their small town squad and met another squad while enroute for extra help. They got to the hospital and it wasn’t long and she was on the vent. He regrets not flying her because she sat in the rural ER for 3 hours before an ICU bed opened up 4 hours away from home. He now can’t see his wife for 22 more days, they allowed him to have a 2 hour compassion visit due to him living so far away. We went over to sit outside with him (he has recovered from Covid) to help ease his mind. Brought him freezer meals which tears were shed between us, he’s a guy who never asks for help yet has been in firefighting and EMS for longer than I’ve been alive. He got a call from the palliative care doctor, he’s giving her a 50/50 chance to make it, she is improving but they know she will have good and bad days. Both him and his wife are unvaccinated, she isn’t the pillar of health, but has never been this sick ever in her life..

My boss for another service I work for has been down for the count for over two weeks now. Him, his wife, and one year old son got covid. Both him and his wife unvaccinated, both in very good health, and both are 39 and 41 in age. Their 1 year old is just a little crabby and pretty sure he’s over it now thankfully… But him and his wife still can’t do anything without getting out of breath. They have had the antibody treatments already.. They also are taking a few other meds including ivermectin, colchicine, doxycycline, and prednisone.. @tabbibus im a lowly paramedic, lol, my med base is limited to more emergency stuff, I know prednisone is a steroid and obviously know that ivermectin is the savior of covid (sarcasm here), but what is the reasoning behind doxy and the Colchicine?

Now my mother in law is sick with it and has yet to go to the hospital, she is high risk, unvaccinated. Has obviously been trying ivermectin ? she’s short of breath now so we are trying to get her to go to the damn ER.

Be careful and stay safe everyone. Have a few vaccinated friends that have come down with it now too, nothing serious yet though between them.

Sorry to hear about you MIL. I'm not sure about the role of doxy. Regarding colchicine, some people use it for its anti-inflammatory properties. It is not part of our standard protocol because there's not much to show it works. So again, risk/benefit.

This is a bad virus, as you know. The unvaccinated tragic stories are coming left and right. Honestly I'm numb now. When they are all tragic, non of them are tragic.

And you sir, as a lowly paramedic, know how to do shit that I would never dream of doing as a lowly ICU doc. haha. Keep up the good work.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Vox. I’ll pass....

Its strange to see people slam ivertmectin when just years ago rallied for its noble prize award use in fighting horrible parasite diseases against both humans and animals. Strange how the world turns. Understand I’m not pro-ivermectin or anything. I just find it fascinating how the hivemind works (or doesn’t I should say). One day you’re a hero and the next day you’re a villain. Interesting times we live in.

Nobel Prize-Winning Drug Ivermectin May Fight Malaria

Resurrecting old drugs for unmet medical needs—known more formally as drug repurposing—was an important message in the Nobel Prize for Medicine earlier this month. It came up today, too, with the intriguing study showing that the antiparasitic drug, ivermectin, appears promising for disrupting...

www.forbes.com

.

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2015 was divided, one half jointly to William C. Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura "for their discoveries concerning a novel therapy against infections caused by roundworm parasites" and the other half to Tu Youyou "for her discoveries concerning a novel...

www.nobelprize.org

Respectfully, you are misktaken. People don't slam Ivermectin for it's approved uses as an anti-parasitic drug that is used to treat river blindness and intestinal roundworm infection in humans and to de-worm pets and livestock. In fact, it has been one of most successful drug ever developed.

People slam Ivermectin for the use as a Covid treatment, when the science (clincial trials don't suggest it is helpful and large scale clinical trials have not been done). Even the developer of the drug, Merck, says it should not be used as a Covid treatment.

Here is what Merck has posted on their own website:

KENILWORTH, N.J., Feb. 4, 2021 – Merck (NYSE: MRK), known as MSD outside the United States and Canada, today affirmed its position regarding use of ivermectin during the COVID-19 pandemic. Company scientists continue to carefully examine the findings of all available and emerging studies of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 for evidence of efficacy and safety. It is important to note that, to-date, our analysis has identified:

• No scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19 from pre-clinical studies;
• No meaningful evidence for clinical activity or clinical efficacy in patients with COVID-19 disease, and;
• A concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies.

We do not believe that the data available support the safety and efficacy of ivermectin beyond the doses and populations indicated in the regulatory agency-approved prescribing information.

From the FDA website:

Here’s What You Need to Know about Ivermectin

• The FDA has not authorized or approved ivermectin for use in preventing or treating COVID-19 in humans or animals. Ivermectin is approved for human use to treat infections caused by some parasitic worms and head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.
• Currently available data do not show ivermectin is effective against COVID-19. Clinical trials assessing ivermectin tablets for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in people are ongoing.
• Taking large doses of ivermectin is dangerous.
• If your health care provider writes you an ivermectin prescription, fill it through a legitimate source such as a pharmacy, and take it exactly as prescribed.
• Never use medications intended for animals on yourself or other people. Animal ivermectin products are very different from those approved for humans. Use of animal ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans is dangerous.

It befuddles me why some folks still think that Ivermectin should be used to treat Covid. I can understand at the beginning of the pandemic when folks were frantically searching for something, anything, to grab on to as a treatment. However, at this point in time, folks need to seriously stop getting their medical advice from commentators on the TV or podcasts.

If you (the generic you and not the forum member I have quoted) are hell-bent on using Ivermectin, at least talk to your family doctor about it. Odds are he/she will talk you out of it. Even if you get a prescription for Ivermentcin, at least it will be for the correct dose.

Jim

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

@Acard7, sorry to hear about your MIL and I hope you can get her to the ER asap.

Paramedics are the first healthcare providers that many of us see in an emergency situation, and your work is crucial in the saving the lives of many people.

Jim

 

[Acard7]

Ivermectin is not being put down for it's intended use. It is an amazing drug. The push back is on it's role in covid. That is a completely different discussion.



Sorry to hear about you MIL. I'm not sure about the role of doxy. Regarding colchicine, some people use it for its anti-inflammatory properties. It is not part of our standard protocol because there's not much to show it works. So again, risk/benefit.

This is a bad virus, as you know. The unvaccinated tragic stories are coming left and right. Honestly I'm numb now. When they are all tragic, non of them are tragic.

And you sir, as a lowly paramedic, know how to do shit that I would never dream of doing as a lowly ICU doc. haha. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the explanation on the other meds, I was assuming everything is just experimental to see if it works, like you said risk/benefit stuff!

@Acard7, sorry to hear about your MIL and I hope you can get her to the ER asap.

Jim

Trying to convince her to go, my wife is furious as you could imagine, been telling her to go to the ER for the past two days!

 

[haknslash]

I wish everyone could have access to MC antibodies. Seems to really be a nice counterpunch if treated the patients early on when symptoms first show. Sucks that it’s now being rationed. Seems logical to open up production of it. We have a lot of vaccines going to waste or set to expire but MC antibodies seems more widely accepted to help keep people from dying or flooding the hospitals. If it helps beat COVID or lessen the severity I don’t know why there wouldn’t be an attitude of all hands on deck to get as much out there as possible. I’m not saying it’s a replacement for vaccines but it shouldn’t matter what the drug or treatment is so long as it helps people in the end and is safe.

 

[tabbibus]

I wish everyone could have access to MC antibodies. Seems to really be a nice counterpunch if treated the patients early on when symptoms first show. Sucks that it’s now being rationed. Seems logical to open up production of it. We have a lot of vaccines going to waste or set to expire but MC antibodies seems more widely accepted to help keep people from dying or flooding the hospitals. If it helps beat COVID or lessen the severity I don’t know why there wouldn’t be an attitude of all hands on deck to get as much out there as possible. I’m not saying it’s a replacement for vaccines but it shouldn’t matter what the drug or treatment is so long as it helps people in the end and is safe.

Agreed. I wish we had more and also I wish we had the space to do more. Our infusion centers are overwhelmed. It is a good way to help those already infected, specially the unvaccinated as they are at much higher risk of getting very sick. That being said, it is yet another very expensive resource that would not need to be used if we got more people vaccinated.

 

[haknslash]

Not everyone wants or can have a vaccination though. If there are other means of protection from severity then we should be ramping up. Cost should not be the concern or driving force. Hell we are printing money like it ain’t no thing anyways. We are letting borders flood open with unvaccinated people (currently over an estimated 10,000 Haitians camping out under a Texas bridge) and there are just some people who don’t want it or can’t take the vaccine, so it is what it is. We need to get any and all options on the table and stop trying to put it into two distinct camps. It doesn’t have to be nor should it be vax or bust. Whatever it takes should be the mantra IMO.

 

[tabbibus]

Not everyone wants or can have a vaccination though. If there are other means of protection from severity then we should be ramping up. Cost should not be the concern or driving force. Hell we are printing money like it ain’t no thing anyways. We are letting borders flood open with unvaccinated people (currently over an estimated 10,000 Haitians camping out under a Texas bridge) and there are just some people who don’t want it or can’t take the vaccine, so it is what it is. We need to get any and all options on the table and stop trying to put it into two distinct camps. It doesn’t have to be nor should it be vax or bust. Whatever it takes should be the mantra IMO.

I didn't say vax or bust. But one should always reach for prevention rather than treatment. Basic pillar of medicine.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I believe that the majority of immigrants into this country are voluntarily vaccinated against Covid-19. With a fully approved vaccine, I have no qualm about mandating the vaccines to those who wish to stay in this country, as being unvaccinated not only impacts their health but that of the people around them.

Jim

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

@haknslash, I would genuinely like to know what about my post you dislike?

• that there are 10,000 Haitian immigrants at the border?
• that most immigrants are voluntary vaccinated when they come to this country?
• of that I would consider mandating a fully approved vaccine, when possible, for new immigrants who want to come into the US?
• other?

Jim

 

[haknslash]

I didn't say vax or bust. But one should always reach for prevention rather than treatment. Basic pillar of medicine.

I wasn't specifically referring to you. Just generally speaking my mind. The attitude by some, not all, of the medical profession, political puppets and mindless coattail riders seems to be is that everyone must conform to this moving goal post of uncertainty or else need not look for alternatives that meets the same end result of less strain on the hospitals and less deaths. Is that not the goal in the end? Isn't that what the whole "just two weeks of lockdowns or 15 days is all we need" was all about? To reduce the strain of overloading the hospitals thus deaths. If that is truly the end goal and there are people who won't get the vaccine, then it should be their duty to provide the other means of medicines or treatments to save that life and to improve their health. In the end if they survive they will have very strong antibodies and further help towards herd immunity.

I just don't see why there is seemingly no middle ground with some individuals. I personally think the country is gone. There is no budging from one side or the other so we are at a stalemate. The attitude projected down to us mere peon citizens is "get in line" or it's not worth their time or efforts. The dark reality is trust has been lost and blood is on everyone's hands. The sooner people realize that it's ok to accept there are alternative measures we as a whole should be focusing on rather than vehemently latch on to something nobody knows the true fate of the better off we will be as a country. It just seems futile and asinine to strong arm a society of people against their rights. At this point there are those that will and those that won't get vaccinated, so there is that no matter what....but the common ground should be there are medicines that can prevent the hemorrhaging and that should be the focus. IMO of course.

 

[tabbibus]

At this point there are those that will and those that won't get vaccinated, so there is that no matter what.

Yes, I wish we weren't so divided. There's a lot to unpack in your post but most of these things have been already discussed. The one thing I will point out is there, is that I disagree with this statement. I still have very fruitful conversations with my patients in clinic and with other humans out in the community that help them understand the pro's and con's, and end up with them being vaccinated.

 

[tabbibus]

@haknslash, I would genuinely like to know what about my post you dislike?

• that there are 10,000 Haitian immigrants at the border?
• that most immigrants are voluntary vaccinated when they come to this country?
• of that I would consider mandating a fully approved vaccine, when possible, for new immigrants who want to come into the US?
• other?

Jim

I would agree 100% that there should be a mandate for immigrants. Just like I had to show I was vaccinated against other stuff when I applied for my green card.

 

[crazy4life]

I believe that the majority of immigrants into this country are voluntarily vaccinated against Covid-19.
Jim

Please provide source for this info. I read in more then one place that 30% of all the people flooding our southern border are refusing the vaccine. Or is this what you mean by majority?

30 percent of illegal immigrants in border facilities refused COVID vaccine: report

CE distributed more than 9,500 doses of an initial allotment of 10,000 doses of the J&J vaccine.

nypost.com

30% of immigrants in ICE custody have refused a coronavirus vaccine

Three in 10 immigrants in U.S. detention centers are saying no to the COVID-19 vaccine, Axios has learned. Why it matters: Vaccine hesitancy among detained immigrants has added an unlikely twist to the challenges of a pandemic-era increase in border migration. Stay on top of the latest market...

www.google.com

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

@crazy4life, even with the two post that you cite, a 70% vaccination rate (30% unvaccinated) would be a majority. Interestingly, these numbers are not much different that those for U.S. citizens.

Jim

 

[Bruce]

This addition of SARS-CoV-2 vaccination to immigration policies has not had much publicity.

New US immigrants required to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19

The U.S. will require people applying to immigrate to the country to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

www.thedenverchannel.com

The U.S. Will Require Would-Be Immigrants To Prove They've Been Vaccinated For COVID

The COVID-19 shot joins a list of well-established vaccines required by the U.S., aimed at preventing dangerous diseases such as polio and varicella (chickenpox).

www.npr.org

 

[tabbibus]

Wow. Idaho is now on Crisis Standard of Care. Among other things, this means that the whole state is DNR. Do not resuscitate. No compressions will be made if your heart stops. I assume no intubation either? Not clear about that second part.

This is where we are at. Because this is who we decided to be as a nation.

 

[crazy4life]

This addition of SARS-CoV-2 vaccination to immigration policies has not had much publicity.

New US immigrants required to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19

The U.S. will require people applying to immigrate to the country to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19.

www.thedenverchannel.com

The U.S. Will Require Would-Be Immigrants To Prove They've Been Vaccinated For COVID

The COVID-19 shot joins a list of well-established vaccines required by the U.S., aimed at preventing dangerous diseases such as polio and varicella (chickenpox).

www.npr.org

Big difference between legal immigrants and the thousands of illegal immigrants streaming over our southern border.