The Vaccine

[jtwrace]

Here's an interview I did which some might be interested in.

 

[Bruce]

@Chip F. you should consider.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)

Jacobson v. Massachusetts: A state may enact a compulsory vaccination law, since the legislature has the discretion to decide whether vaccination is the best way to prevent smallpox and protect public health. The legislature may exempt children from the law without violating the equal protection...

supreme.justia.com

Regardless of what a fringe group of conspiracy theorists may feel this is the law.

 

[Chip F.]

@Chip F. you should consider.

Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905)

Jacobson v. Massachusetts: A state may enact a compulsory vaccination law, since the legislature has the discretion to decide whether vaccination is the best way to prevent smallpox and protect public health. The legislature may exempt children from the law without violating the equal protection...

supreme.justia.com

Regardless of what a fringe group of conspiracy theorists may feel this is the law.

Understand . That’s why everyone needs to pressure their state legislators to pass law’s to counter the tyrannical overreaching.

 

[Bruce]

Understand . That’s why everyone needs to pressure their state legislators to pass law’s to counter the tyrannical overreaching.

Do you really believe that state laws overrule the United States Supreme Court?

 

[mwalker4]

I don't believe he is saying state laws over rule Supreme Court. Supreme Court says its constitutional for local entities to require vaccines. But it doesn't matter if the local entities don't require the vaccine.

 

[Rumbo]

Yo! Are you aware of the "pedigree" and history of the AAPS? A few nuggets
- HIV does not cause AIDS
- Abortion increases risk of breast cancer
- Vaccination causes autism
- Obama was a witch doctor and hypnotized people
- Pushed the hydroxychloroquine for Covid train

I'm not even going to get into the political side of the AAPS.

For the love of everything that is good, please do not base health decisions on what this group of people are selling.

Did you read the article? There is nothing controversial in there. They are not saying get it or don’t get it! All they say is that people have a right to choose what they feel is best and that there should be free and open discussion about all of this. What is wrong with discussing this? It’s obvious that many have already made up their minds one way or another. My guess is that a majority of those who haven’t been injected want more info on it but can’t get it because any dissenting opinions or even questions about it are being squashed, banned, demeaned, etc.

 

[Rumbo]

Understand . That’s why everyone needs to pressure their state legislators to pass law’s to counter the tyrannical overreaching.

I’m glad to live in a state that already has.

 

[Robconn]

Understand . That’s why everyone needs to pressure their state legislators to pass law’s to counter the tyrannical overreaching.

Are state legislatures immune from tyrannical impulses? If one is not trusting or guarded of government at a federal level, I doubt there would be trust in local government. I would think that this perspective would spill over into the judicial system as well. Then the medical community, etc etc.

 

[Rumbo]

Are state legislatures immune from tyrannical impulses? If one is not trusting or guarded of government at a federal level, I doubt there would be trust in local government. I would think that this perspective would spill over into the judicial system as well. Then the medical community, etc etc.

No states aren’t immune from tyrannical behavior, look at CA. But the closer to home the government is the easier it is to hold them accountable. You’re not going to run into your US senator or representative out and about in daily life but there’s a much better chance you will run into your state senator or representative. Them being closer to you means they have a better sense of the needs of the communities they represent. I’ve emailed and called my US rep and senators multiple times without any reply. I frequently get replies from my state reps and senator.

 

[Robconn]

No states aren’t immune from tyrannical behavior, look at CA. But the closer to home the government is the easier it is to hold them accountable. You’re not going to run into your US senator or representative out and about in daily life but there’s a much better chance you will run into your state senator or representative. Them being closer to you means they have a better sense of the needs of the communities they represent. I’ve emailed and called my US rep and senators multiple times without any reply. I frequently get replies from my state reps and senator.

Good point. I would have to agree from personal experience. My brother worked in the fords building in Washington. Worked on projects with house of reps. He was able to connect state politician with ongoing family issue of local bureaucratic obstacles. Issue was corrected literally that week. My question Was trying to gain a further perspective on government mistrust and how it may affect ones view of the medical community. I appreciate your honesty and willingness to exchanges ideas and viewpoints.

 

[Chip F.]

Do you really believe that state laws overrule the United States Supreme Court?

I did not say that .

There are challenges to laws all the time .

Let’s bring it to the current time with the COVID 19 vaccines and see what would happen with it being an experimental vaccine.

 

[mwalker4]

I truly have enjoyed all the different posts and have learned a lot from everyone. I'm amazed at the varied backgrounds of people on this forum and all that they bring to the table.

 

[Bruce]

with it being an experimental vaccine.

A vaccine that has been given to hundreds of millions of people is not experimental.

The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines in use in the US were evaluated in double blind randomized controlled studies conducted in multiple centers on multiple continents. Those studies are more than adequate for approval. The appropriate authorization process was used to make the vaccines available rapidly.

Your negative statement regarding vaccines is harmful. People are dying from believing such disinformation. People are asking for the vaccine on their death bed only to learn that it is too late and they wasted their life believing conspiracy theories and disinformation.

 

[tabbibus]

This. This right here is why many of us keep begging people to get vaccinated, only to get our hearts broken when we see this happen.

Arkansas Children's hospitals report record high number of children hospitalized with Covid-19 | CNN

Arkansas Children's hospitals report a record number of children are hospitalized with Covid-19 as the illness continues to prey upon the state's unvaccinated population.

www.cnn.com

 

[Chip F.]

A vaccine that has been given to hundreds of millions of people is not experimental.

The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines in use in the US were evaluated in double blind randomized controlled studies conducted in multiple centers on multiple continents. Those studies are more than adequate for approval. The appropriate authorization process was used to make the vaccines available rapidly.

Your negative statement regarding vaccines is harmful. People are dying from believing such disinformation. People are asking for the vaccine on their death bed only to learn that it is too late and they wasted their life believing conspiracy theories and disinformation.

The word experimental is harmful ?

I guess if it doesn’t fit the narrative your selling , I can see how you would make using a word “Harmful”.

Save your word shaming for someone who believes in it.

Please explain the long term effects of taking the experimental injection ? Are the results finalized?

 

[tabbibus]

What is experimental about it? Please define what you mean by this. When, in your opinion, would the results be finalized?

 

[adrianp89]

What is experimental about it? Please define what you mean by this. When, in your opinion, would the results be finalized?

I think he means, it was rushed and pushed out in less than 12 months, while most vaccines take years upon years with a ton more testing. I'd tend to lean with him, the vaccine is in a BETA stage at best.

For me and my wife, it is simple. We plan on having a child soon. There is simply not enough data to say if it does or does not have effects on infertility or long-term effects on newborns. The rumors are there but scientists blatantly deny it (with nearly no data to back that up and long-term data isn't even established). We have had COVID already (I might have had it in Sept '19, and again in Nov '20). I will trust my natural immune system (which has been proven to be just as good, if not better than the vaccine) rather than risk anything relating to our future child.

Anyways what's it matter anymore? Vaccinated people have to wear masks again. Why would people with vaccine need to protect other people with the vaccine? If someone chooses to risk the virus over the vaccine, then no reason for anyone to wear a mask, and they prevent no risk to someone who is vaccinated. It also doesn't help when leaders are essentially saying the vaccine prevents COVID. That type of BS does not help the anti-vax narrative.

With the talk of booster shoots, and variants making the vaccine ineffective..... if I were to get it, I would wait until the next generation of the vaccine. Why get the version of it that is going to be useless in a few months?

 

[Robconn]

The word experimental is harmful ?

I guess if it doesn’t fit the narrative your selling , I can see how you would make using a word “Harmful”.

Save your word shaming for someone who believes in it.

Please explain the long term effects of taking the experimental injection ? Are the results finalized?

Yes, words matter. At this point, there is more evidence of the benefits vs. risk. Again it’s not for everyone.

 

[tabbibus]

This rushing that we see from the outside is the result of removing lots of red tape, having our best minds dedicate themselves on one specific task, and throwing lots of money at it. Rather than a bad thing, I see it as a triumph that we were able to get here so fast!

I understand your concern, but this fertility issue is something I find hard to understand. There is no data to suggest this. It started out as misinformation and has taken a hold. Anecdotally, I have many friends and colleagues who were pregnant when they got the vaccine and their babies are healthy and beautiful. I do wish you the best in your baby making endeavors. Without getting too personal, I know first hand how difficult it can be.

Regarding your second point, the viral load of the delta variant is higher than the original strain in vaccinated people. While the vaccinated individual will most likely be ok, the risk of transmission is higher now. And we are trying to protect those who don't have a choice on vaccination. Adults with certain conditions and kids. Maybe the message hasn't been clear. We are not preventing covid, we are preventing severe disease.

Stay safe. Thank you for discussing this.

 

[scbruet]

My wife got both her pfizer shots during her 3rd trimester. No side effects and she's due in a few weeks. We decided passing antibodies to the fetus was well worth it, plus getting covid while pregnant would also put her into the high risk group.