The Vaccine

[Bruce]

@Rumbo you are misunderstanding how vaccines work. Vaccines are not an impenetrable shield and for legal reasons it is wise for the manufacturers to disclose that.

Vaccines teach our bodies to fight a virus making it likely that our immune system would defeat that virus before it progressed to cause disease. Our immune system can not begin the fight until the virus is contracted. The vaccine has it primed to do so at the point of contraction instead of having to learn to fight after contraction.

The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are more effective than many older vaccines. They absolutely are vaccines and are recognized as such by every major regulatory agency.

 

[Rumbo]

1. Provide the literature (both, please)
2. Describe in your own words what 'impart immunity' means, and then tell us how these products do not meet the definition of a vaccine.

I'll wait.

Happy to but it will have to wait until this evening after I’m done with work so I can pull it back up. I read through these several months ago so I don’t have it at my fingertips at the moment.
@scbruet defined vaccine and immunity in his post as I think most Americans define it. I think that most people believe that a vaccine will provide them complete protection from a pathogen. I understand this is inaccurate and of course no vaccine has 100% efficacy but I don’t think most people consider that.
That being said, would people behave more cautiously after being vaccinated if they understood that? And if it did cause them to behave more cautiously would that help at this point?

 

[mwalker4]

I had friends in High School and College that also thought rubber prophylactics were a 100%. Can be a costly mistake.

 

[tabbibus]

Man @Robconn is always so nice. I strongly believe he is always high with a bob marley song in the background. LOL

 

[Robconn]

I had friends in High School and College that also thought rubber prophylactics were a 100%. Can be a costly mistake.

Bob Ross would say happy little mistakes!

 

[Robconn]

Man @Robconn is always so nice. I strongly believe he is always high with a bob marley song in the background. LOL

P.s. he knows too much, my cover is blown.. take the shot... lol

 

[Bruce]

I think that most people believe that a vaccine will provide them complete protection from a pathogen.

Influenza vaccines are the vaccine that is most frequently offered to Americans. I believe we all recognize that influenza vaccines have a low level of effectiveness. What the population ignores is that while influenza vaccines likely provide less than 50% protection at an individual level if more of us took that vaccine it would provide a greater level of protection at the population level which would reduce individual risk.

This WSJ graphic is informative on relative vaccine benefit. The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines provide greater protection than most of these

That being said, would people behave more cautiously after being vaccinated if they understood that? And if it did cause them to behave more cautiously would that help at this point?

Everyone I know that is vaccinated has continued to mask and distance when appropriate. It is likely that earlier vaccinators took the greatest precautions before and after vaccination. Among my friends the ones who took the greatest risks remain unvaccinated and continue to take great risks.

 

[mwalker4]

Influenza vaccines are the vaccine that is most frequently offered to Americans. I believe we all recognize that influenza vaccines have a low level of effectiveness. What the population ignores is that while influenza vaccines likely provide less than 50% protection at an individual level if more of us took that vaccine it would provide a greater level of protection at the population level which would reduce individual risk.

This WSJ graphic is informative on relative vaccine benefit. The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines provide greater protection than most of these

View attachment 158606




Everyone I know that is vaccinated has continued to mask and distance when appropriate. It is likely that earlier vaccinators took the greatest precautions before and after vaccination. Among my friends the ones who took the greatest risks remain unvaccinated and continue to take great risks.

Most people I know are vaccinated and do not wear masks except where mandated by regulation: nursing homes, medical facilities, and public transit. I have not heard of one person having any trouble with Covid. I believe in the "vaccine" and therefore don't plan on wearing a mask unless required by law. I now believe that people who are concerned about contracting the virus should wear N-95 mask and social distance. Therefore shifting who I am protecting when I wear a mask, from others to myself.

 

[tabbibus]

I now believe that people who are concerned about contracting the virus should wear N-95 mask and social distance. Therefore shifting who I am protecting when I wear a mask, from others to myself.

You know, I hear you @mwalker4. I sometimes feel like that. Here are a couple of points that suggest that may not be a poor strategy

- Kids. Delta is affecting kids more than before. I think the onus should be on the adults to protect the kids. So by wearing the mask, the vaccinated person is protecting the kid.

- As I stated above, I have given out of fucks to give with regards to people who refuse vaccination and then get sick. So I could say that I won't wear a mask because I'll be ok and the unvaxxed person will get it from me... their call... (removing the kids from the equation). But here is how it still affects me. All these sickies out there are a breeding ground for new variants. Which as we can see with delta, can come back and make my life miserable again. So wearing the mask in areas of high spread does help me in that regard.

 

[mwalker4]

You know, I hear you @mwalker4. I sometimes feel like that. Here are a couple of points that suggest that may not be a poor strategy

- Kids. Delta is affecting kids more than before. I think the onus should be on the adults to protect the kids. So by wearing the mask, the vaccinated person is protecting the kid.

- As I stated above, I have given out of fucks to give with regards to people who refuse vaccination and then get sick. So I could say that I won't wear a mask because I'll be ok and the unvaxxed person will get it from me... their call... (removing the kids from the equation). But here is how it still affects me. All these sickies out there are a breeding ground for new variants. Which as we can see with delta, can come back and make my life miserable again. So wearing the mask in areas of high spread does help me in that regard.

I understand and I am not around many kids these days. We can't go to zero risk on anything. Life is a game of Risk Management, not total risk avoidance. At some point there is a risk and we have to live with it. We can disagree where that line is drawn, but it needs to be drawn. This is why you separate the Threat Assessor from the Risk Manager roles. My daughter-in-law has Leukemia and therefore most days she has a very compromised immunity system. We must protect her from many things, not just Covid. But I don't think that everyone should wear a mask to protect her. Ultimately, I personally believe that in our current condition, if you are personally concerned you should take the appropriate measures. Since kids under 12 can't get the vaccine schools are a whole other matter and I don't know enough about.

 

[Bruce]

@mwalker4, it is entirely possible that vaccination is sufficient to handle all exposure situations that you will experience. I appreciate that you have taken the most effective step that you can for your health and for those around you.

Fighting SARS-CoV-2 is a race. The vaccine gives your immune system an advantage however if you receive a large amount of viral material the virus gain an advantage in that race. For small exposures it is likely that vaccination would allow your immune system to quickly beat the virus with few if any symptoms. With delta infections emitting as much as 1,000 times the viral material as alpha a mask filtering out 70% to 95% of that viral material could be a real advantage for you.

I also have a vulnerable child in my home. That encourages me to be as cautious as possible. I hope that you will be successful in keeping your step daughter safe and that her treatment will be successful.

 

[tabbibus]

This is why seeing numbers does not mean you understand what is happening


Turns out that this town has one of the highest rates of vaccination. Out of the 900 positive cases, only 7 hospitalized. No severe cases and no deaths.

So yeah. Vaccine works

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

This is why seeing numbers does not mean you understand what is happening
View attachment 158644

Turns out that this town has one of the highest rates of vaccination. Out of the 900 positive cases, only 7 hospitalized. No severe cases and no deaths.

So yeah. Vaccine works

We just returned from Nashville, I am curious to see the numbers from there in a few weeks. Downtown is shoulder to shoulder 24/7 7 days a week with no masks.

 

[Alfred58]

I’m going to share what happened following my grandsons first birthday. It was a get together of 11 adults and 7 children’s, ages from 1 to 13. Two days after the party, one of the adults had to go to the ER with high fever and vomiting. He tested positive for COVID. We all have gotten tested after that. Eight adults that where vaccinated have tested negative. All the children except one have tested positive and two other adults have tested positive. The person that went to the ER says he will get vaccinated as soon as he can because he doesn’t want to go through what he went through again. What I want to point out here is that all the people that got vaccinated are fine and tested negative. I personally recommend, whoever can get vaccinated to do so. Thanks.

 

[mwalker4]

This is why seeing numbers does not mean you understand what is happening
View attachment 158644

Turns out that this town has one of the highest rates of vaccination. Out of the 900 positive cases, only 7 hospitalized. No severe cases and no deaths.

So yeah. Vaccine works

Turns out I was there on July 10th during this time. My daughter lives in Boston, we were visiting and took the ferry from Boston to Provincetown for the day. I guess the vaccine must of worked, but then again we didn't participate in a lot of the activity that was probably going on that week.

 

[Bluewater272]

Influenza vaccines are the vaccine that is most frequently offered to Americans. I believe we all recognize that influenza vaccines have a low level of effectiveness. What the population ignores is that while influenza vaccines likely provide less than 50% protection at an individual level if more of us took that vaccine it would provide a greater level of protection at the population level which would reduce individual risk.

This WSJ graphic is informative on relative vaccine benefit. The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines provide greater protection than most of these

View attachment 158606




Everyone I know that is vaccinated has continued to mask and distance when appropriate. It is likely that earlier vaccinators took the greatest precautions before and after vaccination. Among my friends the ones who took the greatest risks remain unvaccinated and continue to take great risks.

I haven't paid much attention in the last 18 months other than COVID (duh) and oncology (my day job) - but is the ebola vaccine really 100% effective?

 

[Bruce]

I haven't paid much attention in the last 18 months other than COVID (duh) and oncology (my day job) - but is the ebola vaccine really 100% effective?

That does seem strange but in at least one study an Ebola vaccine was found to be 100% effective.

Efficacy and effectiveness of an rVSV-vectored vaccine in preventing Ebola virus disease: final results from the Guinea ring vaccination, open-label, cluster-randomised trial (Ebola Ça Suffit!)

The results add weight to the interim assessment that rVSV-ZEBOV offers substantial protection against Ebola virus disease, with no cases among vaccinated individuals from day 10 after vaccination in both randomised and non-randomised clusters.

www.thelancet.com

 

[Dean P]

As of this morning, Florida is now the new epicenter for COVID. Ain't that great. Why does this keep happening?

 

[mwalker4]

As of this morning, Florida is now the new epicenter for COVID. Ain't that great. Why does this keep happening?

Air Conditioning and tourism. In July Northerners are outside and Floridians are inside. The air conditioning produces cool dry air which the virus loves.

 

[Bruce]

As of this morning, Florida is now the new epicenter for COVID. Ain't that great. Why does this keep happening?

Sorry, my state is there as well.

Last year we had little choice but to be faced with a pandemic. This year many of us chose to invite that pandemic back upon all of us.