Thoughts and demo rides of wake / towsports boats: Moomba Max, Axis A22, MB Sports

[buckbuck]

That would be @007 wife. I am sure she will appreciate the attention. Not sure @007 will. He moved from a Yamaha to Tig'e a few years ago after being severely bitten by the surf bug.

 

[007]

Not offended, I’m a lucky guy! She’s a way better surfer and better looking than I am!

 

[InmyElement]

Ooops...sorry about that I thought it was an advertisement..
You can kick me off or demote me to Jetboater addict...lesson learned don't type everything your thinking..

 

[007]

All good man!

 

[anmut]

Bumping this thread one more time...

I've gotten slightly more serious and found a make/model that I believe will check all the boxes. Tige 23 ZX looks like the boat for my fam. So this past weekend we drove two hours north to a dealership that had one of three available in a 500 mile radius. And... disappointment set in.

1) Dealership had only been handling Tige for a year now and the salesman knew absolutely squat about the brand. When I asked him about maintenance, break-in, winterizing, he got everything wrong. I, of course, had already read the manual front to back, and knew all of the things... so he pretty much disqualified himself right off the bat.

2) Not disappointing, but to note: these boats are MASSIVE. With my 212S on a trailer, I can see the "top" of the freeboard enough to included it in my wipe down. Top of the freeboard on a Tige 23 ZX was easily 2' above my field of vision. The boat was an absolute monster, and it's not even the biggest in it's class...

3) Tige (unlike Yamaha) includes three Group 27 series batteries from the factory. Two for house/start, and a third that doesn't charge on the alternator for the rear thruster (yep, optional rear thruster for docking and quick rider pickups!). It gets it's own charging device for 110v. So I was excited that the included "Wet Sounds Sinister X" stereo system was up and running for me to test. This package includes 4x Rev10's on the tower, 6x Rev8 in the boat, and a 12" sub.

But of course, the stereo system wouldn't work correctly. Radio or BT connections didn't work, and no matter how much we messed around with it, we could only get choppy sound... Salesman said he'd have to warranty it. Very disappointing and just UNREAL that a new boat had that issue. The other weird thing was that the volume controls located on the steering wheel +/- the volume in increments of 5, but on a 1-100 system. I'm kind of always adjusting the stereo depending on the song/wind/engine noise, so have that be such a strange design...

4) As we were wrapping things up with our visit sales guy said "Oh, and full disclosure, we're going to warranty the entire window system, there's a fit issue the STBD side... Seriously, WTH is wrong with the boat makers and just throwing things together in 2021...

So now I'm really back to "is it worth buying this type of boat at the top of the market during a time when QA seems to not exist?"

Pics below. Also, check out how "dirty" this crevices of this boat was from the factory... made my Yamaha look clean by comparison.

 

[d_coyne1984]

Bumping this thread one more time...

I've gotten slightly more serious and found a make/model that I believe will check all the boxes. Tige 23 ZX looks like the boat for my fam. So this past weekend we drove two hours north to a dealership that had one of three available in a 500 mile radius. And... disappointment set in.

1) Dealership had only been handling Tige for a year now and the salesman knew absolutely squat about the brand. When I asked him about maintenance, break-in, winterizing, he got everything wrong. I, of course, had already read the manual front to back, and knew all of the things... so he pretty much disqualified himself right off the bat.

2) Not disappointing, but to note: these boats are MASSIVE. With my 212S on a trailer, I can see the "top" of the freeboard enough to included it in my wipe down. Top of the freeboard on a Tige 23 ZX was easily 2' above my field of vision. The boat was an absolute monster, and it's not even the biggest in it's class...

3) Tige (unlike Yamaha) includes three Group 27 series batteries from the factory. Two for house/start, and a third that doesn't charge on the alternator for the rear thruster (yep, optional rear thruster for docking and quick rider pickups!). It gets it's own charging device for 110v. So I was excited that the included "Wet Sounds Sinister X" stereo system was up and running for me to test. This package includes 4x Rev10's on the tower, 6x Rev8 in the boat, and a 12" sub.

But of course, the stereo system wouldn't work correctly. Radio or BT connections didn't work, and no matter how much we messed around with it, we could only get choppy sound... Salesman said he'd have to warranty it. Very disappointing and just UNREAL that a new boat had that issue. The other weird thing was that the volume controls located on the steering wheel +/- the volume in increments of 5, but on a 1-100 system. I'm kind of always adjusting the stereo depending on the song/wind/engine noise, so have that be such a strange design...

4) As we were wrapping things up with our visit sales guy said "Oh, and full disclosure, we're going to warranty the entire window system, there's a fit issue the STBD side... Seriously, WTH is wrong with the boat makers and just throwing things together in 2021...

So now I'm really back to "is it worth buying this type of boat at the top of the market during a time when QA seems to not exist?"

Pics below. Also, check out how "dirty" this crevices of this boat was from the factory... made my Yamaha look clean by comparison.

View attachment 144913View attachment 144914View attachment 144915View attachment 144916View attachment 144917View attachment 144918View attachment 144919View attachment 144920View attachment 144921View attachment 144922

Man, that is pretty disappointing. It is pretty common to have a couple small issues with these boats just due to the custom nature, but I can't believe the dealer didn't do a walkthrough of the boat before showing it to customers. I think Tige makes the best looking interior in the industry by a decent margin. I've heard a couple guys (Centurion guys mind you) say their upholstery is on the thin side so I would pay attention to that and see if it going to be a problem for you. Either way I imagine it is better than Yamaha (and that isn't a dig on Yamaha in any way). I frickin' love their new towers with the built-in accent lighting. It looks awesome. If you get a chance to do a water demo please shoot some video. I have never been on a Tige before and I've toyed with the idea at looking at a Tige or ATX. That thruster is a really nice touch. I would love to have one for some of the small spaces I have to maneuver in.

As far as is now a good time to buy, the answer is no. It's the worst in history, but there is no guarantee it will ever get better. I read some article from a water craft magazine that said they think the boat boom will last another 2 years or so. I can tell you this though, if you and your family/friends are into wake sports, you will not be disappointed. You are talking about a jump from a Honda to a Mercedes. All the tech in these boats makes life on the water so much easier. No more pulling bags out and filling up with external pumps. Preset rider profiles. Automated weight adjustments. Massive push compared to anything a Yamaha can make. It's reaaaalllly nice.

I love that you test the dealer knowledge to make sure they actually know what they are talking about. I do the same thing. Especially when it comes to boats and cars. It's amazing how often they have no clue what is under the hood.

 

[suke]

I don't beat sales people up about not knowing enough about the various things I buy. Most of these dealerships sell tons of different brands, and even different types of vehicles. It's just not possible to know all the ins and outs of everything out there. Can almost guarantee by the time I hit the lot of any dealership I'll know more about what I'm looking at than anyone that works there.......even more than most of their techs. LOL! It's just the nature of the beast. It's a 1:1 relationship for me as for them it's a 1:xxxxx.

 

[anmut]

I don't beat sales people up about not knowing enough about the various things I buy. Most of these dealerships sell tons of different brands, and even different types of vehicles. It's just not possible to know all the ins and outs of everything out there. Can almost guarantee by the time I hit the lot of any dealership I'll know more about what I'm looking at than anyone that works there.......even more than most of their techs. LOL! It's just the nature of the beast. It's a 1:1 relationship for me as for them it's a 1:xxxxx.

I get that, but he was off enough that his "advice" could've caused damage. "We'll test the wave in the spring" (manual says don't fill the bags in the first 10 hours). "Change all your impellers at the 300 hour mark." (Manual says every 100 or season) "Oil change after 100 hours." (Manual says 50).

Also, if you're selling a $200k MSRP boat, I expect you to do your homework! I mean, you don't have to have every screen memorized, but you should know when how long the break-in period is and what oil change intervals are.

 

[anmut]

I love that you test the dealer knowledge to make sure they actually know what they are talking about. I do the same thing. Especially when it comes to boats and cars. It's amazing how often they have no clue what is under the hood.

For sure, do that every time when there's salesmen involved on a big purchase. If you know as much as I do or more, I'll trust what you say. If you're talking out your ass just GTFO with that.

 

[anmut]

For maintenance of the Raptor engine you would find it on Indmar’s website https://www.indmar.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/2021-6.2L-Raptor-by-Indmar-Operators-Manual_Wake-Series-Inboard.pdf.

You have to keep in mind that these are not Yamaha jet boats in the sense that there is one owners manual. With these boats and I’m sure all others outside of jet boats youlll have an owners manual for the boat manufacturer that covers things on their side of production and you’ll also have an owners manual for the engine from its respective manufacturer. The maintenance is the same on a Tige that it would be for any other brand that carries the same Indmar engine. That being said they should have at least known something unless of course this is their first inboard brand and just getting started. Maybe he was just clueless lol.

Yea not good if the audio was messed up. I can’t speak for Tige but others would have typically caught that. Maybe a Friday boat lol. One thing you need to keep in mind is that these are custom built boats. Things will have little kinks along the way especially within the first break in period that the owner will find or catch. Typically these are small things but what is important is that you pick a dealer that you feel confident in and sometimes this means looking at other brands if you don’t feel comfortable with them. Same really for a Yamaha but it’s a bit more important on these boats since the engine is not the same as the boat/hull manufacturer. Everything else the boat manufacturer covers.

Yep, well aware of the difference between Yamaha engines and these boats. Which is why it's terrifying that the people selling them don't know squat. It really drives me insane that in this area you can either buy a Mastercraft or a Malibu. Which are for the most part, just terrible boats. I mean, Mastercraft still puts carpet in their brand new $180k boats... and Malibu's are 3 years behind on design. The Nautiques, Centurions, Tiges, Moomba, Supras are incredibly far away if you have issues.

 

[haknslash]

I hear ya and I wouldn’t feel comfortable having a dealer far away unless I truly felt confident in the dealer and that was the only option I had for a boat brand I was looking at. I’d love to have looked at some other brands out there but no dealer support or network in the state for some of the brands and gauging the dealers out of state takes time unless you find others and hear their stories. Not that I think it would fall apart and I’d be screwed but just the fact that there are some things that may arise and you’ll need them if you want their service or even just for software updates. You don’t want it to be a big pain in the butt to have service done.

That being said that is a nice looking boat. And yea getting around these things will make you realize just how big they are compared to your Yamaha.

 

[anmut]

View attachment 144921

Funny, I look at this picture today and feel like I can see the issue with the audio - bottom amp appears to be off. Weird.

 

[cozilla]

@anmut it does look off.

 

[suke]

I get that, but he was off enough that his "advice" could've caused damage. "We'll test the wave in the spring" (manual says don't fill the bags in the first 10 hours). "Change all your impellers at the 300 hour mark." (Manual says every 100 or season) "Oil change after 100 hours." (Manual says 50).

Also, if you're selling a $200k MSRP boat, I expect you to do your homework! I mean, you don't have to have every screen memorized, but you should know when how long the break-in period is and what oil change intervals are.

I wouldn't. I mean he shouldn't have said unless he was sure, but I misspeak all the time at work to be corrected by one of my engineers. It happens. Now he should have said I think this, but let's walk through the manual. My sales guy looked through my manual and dog-eared pages (break in, maintenance, etc) prior to me coming on the lot. They sell all kinds of crap including UTV's(they also sell quarter million $ center consoles). Def don't expect him to even know how to start all of those things, BUT him going through the manual prior to me showing up is the way to handle that scenario.

 

[007]

There is a lot to unpack there, and I’ll admit I skimmed your post. Tige is a good boat when you have a great dealer. Some of the stuff you described should have been found going through the boat by the dealer’s service team when they took delivery. There are always things to sort on a semi customs boat, the sales floor is the wrong place to do that. Tige does go through some dealers. Mine just parted ways after a long run. That said, Tige has some great dealers. If I had a dollar for every boat salesman who didn’t know how to set up a wake boat, I’d be rich!!! Unfortunately that’s not really a joke. I think you have to assume your initial experience will reflect the rest of the relationship with that dealer. I’m willing to give them a little because they are new, but that is a big purchase and I’d want to feel rock solid about them standing behind you. As far as the interior, there was some issues here and there, especially with a defective silver vinyl, but my interior held of well over 5 seasons and 375 hours of use. My boat was one of the fist off the line with a new motor and new surf system. There were a couple of hiccups and the dealer was responsive and made it right. My Tige was trouble free for the rest of my ownership.

 

[ripler]

Why does this dealer have a boat on their showroom floor with known defects and problems, you would think he would have them fixed before someone buys the boat. What would have happened if you said you want the boat and want to take delivery ASAP?

 

[anmut]

Tige is a good boat when you have a great dealer.

That's what I'm afraid of... unlike my Yamaha that hasn't seen the dealer in 100 hours of use, buying a boat 3x the price and having to drive it back to the dealership 2+ hours away sounds like an absolute nightmare.

I did read about the silver vinyl issue, seems like Tige took care of that for a lot of customers no questions asked.

 

[anmut]

Why does this dealer have a boat on their showroom floor with known defects and problems, you would think he would have them fixed before someone buys the boat. What would have happened if you said you want the boat and want to take delivery ASAP?

Exactly what I was thinking. The "windshield" defect was only disclosed after we discussed him having to warranty the stereo system.

 

[007]

Even with Yamaha I had an issue that if the dealer had not stepped up I would have been frustrated. I wouldn’t be afraid of the 2 hour drive myself, but I think dealer support is a huge component of an enjoyable ownership experience with a semi custom wake boat (any brand). I was interested in 2 different brands for the next boat, and while each had plusses and minuses, dealer clinched the decision. Also, be aware that many brands in the wake boat niche have territories. As my dealer once said “this ain’t like buying a Chevy”. Like it or hate it, understand that there are financial incentives for warranty service built into the cost in some cases. If those don’t get transferred correctly, don’t expect to be welcomed to a different dealer for service with open arms. Even if they do get transferred to the new dealer, you probably aren’t getting to the front of the line if you spent your purchase $ elsewhere.

 

[007]

PS- impeller - minimally every other season, depending on the number of hours you rack up. Many do it every season for piece of mind. I would not go past 100. Oil change, close to 50. If you go over a bit on a long weekend nobody is gonna ding you for it. Breakin - I’ve heard the theory of “drive it like you are gonna drive it” during break in from others in the industry. I fall closer into the “do the break in right” category, but man - 10 hours is a lifetime in a wakeboard!