Tipping...and I'm not talking about pushing cows over!

[Big Shasta]

@Big Shasta , please help me understand the comment above. If your friend's payment to the barkeep and busboy were based on what he actually got in tips how did he pay for a patron's meal that stiffed him on the tip. Maybe I'm not articulating this clearly, but it sounds like your friend pays his coworkers/shares his (their ?) tips based on on what he takes in (e.g. 4% of $100 in tips is $4) not on what his expected tips should be (e.g. 15% on tonight's total meal revenue, say $1,000 in total meals sales, 15% being $150 and 4% of that being $6).

I haven't heard of anyone being chased out because they left a bad tip or didn't leave one at all but the recent stories of the church of Scientology in LA stiffing two pizza delivery guys of their tips on $2,000 + pizzas bill and another one where a car dealer tried to embarrass a pizza delivery guy for assuming he got a $7 tip on a $43 bill come to mind. Remember these?

http://laist.com/2015/01/07/scientology_stiff_papa_johns_pizza.php

http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/car-dealership-dicks-over-pizza-guy-on-tip-it-backfire-1679603660

Than there are some stories that go the other way but most of the time only make news when a celebrity is involved (e.g., rock/movie star only left a $20 tip on a $2000 bill, I think the sf giants were accused of bad tipping after winning the last World Series but it was in the context of them opening a $25k bottle / magnum? Of wine or champagne so I don't know if they stiffed their server or if they just tipped differently for things like that bottle. Funny, this goes back to the original question: how do you tip on a bottle of wine? By the cost or the effort? It takes the same effort to open $25k bottle and a $25 bottle. Now much better can the waiter or waitress make the experience? $500 / $5 or $20% better?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/02/waitress-fired-facebook-kirsten-kelly_n_5552922.html

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2013/09/11/daves-bbq-waitress-complains-bad-tips-facebook/

You meant to tag @BigN8 but I think what he was saying is the guy had to pay the other staff 4% of his total checks. Which would make sense how he would be paying someone for a portion of your bill he never got tipped on. I could see a restaurant doing this so servers couldn't hide tips. If they only reported half of their tips, then they would be stiffing the other staff....but they can't hide 4% of their checks in the computer.

What I really hate is the Sunday after church bad tippers. Supposedly Sunday after church patrons are terrible tippers. There is even a website for it, but I forget what it is.

 

[4x15mph]

@Boat Crazy , waiters/waitresses sometimes prefer their tips off of the receipt (debit card) for tax reasons

 

[Ronnie]

Thanks @Big Shasta , if @BigN8 meant what you said than I understand the statement as it follows my "based on what he is expected to make statement".

I've never heard that about Sunday tippers but am not surprised since many people may be short or feel like they have given enough after they have helped fill the collection plate at church.

 

[Big Shasta]

Found it - http://sundaysaretheworst.com

 

[Britboater]

If you came to the UK and went to a resturant, the experience of the kind of service you'd get, you would then return home and probably appreciate good service a lot more and tip even more!!!

 

[Ronnie]

I noticed that I tipped out of fear last night. Went to a pizza parlor, ordered at the counter and left a $4 tip on a $27 meal. I was thinking of leaving nothing since quite honestly she did nothing to deserve a tip. I ordered at the counter and she handed me the bill, some cups and a number for my table. $4 for that? I Tipped because she was standing over me waiting for to complete the bill and I thought I should leave her something or I may get an extra topping on my pizza. For example, If I see nuts my pizza I know they are not nuts, probably boogers instead. So failing to tip can have potential consequences in situations like these where you pay for the meal before you get it.

Incidentally, the only other service after the sale was someone dropping the pizza off at the table. $4 for that? I would have received less service if I ordered the buffet (all you can eat pizza, salad and soft drinks), since they don't even bring you the pizza in that situation but of course the bill still has a tip line on it.

 

[GiddYupJoe]

I was at a UD basketball game last night and went up to the beer cart and grabbed a couple for the wife and I. Told me it would be $12.50 (not bad for a sporting event), I gave him a $20, he gave me the change and I automatically looked for the jar to drop at least the two quarters in... They do not except tips. This was a first. So I used my $.50 for the next round. Just an observation, you sure don't come across no tipping that often.

 

[BigN8]

Here's one I forgot about and experienced yesterday. Tipping at a Sonic. I have always given the poor teenager that runs the food out a buck or 2. But, it's fast food and just seems weird that you have to tip to get your food. We also have Whataburger's. It's the same thing only your sitting inside instead of the car. You order, they give you a number, and then they bring the food out, only difference is no one ever tips the poor schmuck bringing the food out at a Whataburger.

Kind of crazy. I guess it's just a perceived notion that one needs to be tipped and the other doesn't.

 

[Ronnie]

...Just an observation, you sure don't come across no tipping that often.

That is an accurate observation. I still tip as I had in the past (15% default basis) since I only recently discovered that there is a pay differential in most states between tipped and untipped workers and that no such differential exists in CA. Also My planned tipping practices still need to be refined (e.g. I was out of state on bus. A few weeks ago and got bad/mediocre service at a restaurant But I still left a 15% tip because I wasn't sure if the server got paid the same as an untipped worker, that is when in doubt I tip).

I'm sure that my practices will change eventually. I don't mind tipping, i just do it with more forethought these days.

 

[davel501]

Lots of good thoughts in this thread. I worked in restaurants and bars during college to pay tuition. I will say that waiting tables was sooo easy and the money was generally so good that it was hard to take a job in IT because I had to work harder for less money for the first 6 years. I did end up paying to work on a few occasions. The big one is when someone walks on a check...you eat all of that. I did get burned once on a party of 30 that took out my whole lunch. Guys seemed cool so I did not add a gratuity but their boss that picked up the check must have figured I had. Lost the 18% on that check but still had to pay out the 5% tip out for bus, expo, etc. Nothing like borrowing money to close out your shift.

I will not pay a tip if I have to walk up to a counter to get my food although I do tip the heck out of bartenders, especially if they are busy so I do not have to wait in line.

I always tip on the full amount of what the check should have been if they give me anything for free. Free stuff happens the more you tip at the same place.

Someone mentioned "Canadians" as being the worst tippers as though they thought it was people from Canada. In restaurant speak "Canadians" are African Americans. I hated when the old timers would share this bit of slang with trainees. I am not going to try to claim that the stereotype came out of nowhere because, as a group, African Americans were more likely to talk down to you, run your ass off (ask for things every 2 minutes or worse as you return with the previous thing) and then take the paper money and leave the coins for you...quite literally "keep the change". The thing is you are not waiting on a group as whole you are waiting on the people at your table and you can never tell just by looking at a person if they would be a good tipper or not. If you decided that you were not getting a tip from a table before you greeted them then you generally were not getting a tip and a portion of their check is probably getting comp'd. Sometimes bad tips even when you did a good job are just the cost of doing business. Letting racist stereotypes guide your decision making process is just stupid financially and disrespectful to the people you count on for your income.

As a group, smokers were always the best tippers.

The whole key to waiting tables is turning them over and pumping up the GCA (guest check average). If you are good you will average 20% of your total ring. The more times your tables are sat and the more you are able to make from each person sat the higher your 20% will be. That is why you always get pushed for the add-ons. Alcohol, salads, deserts, they all raise that GCA. The higher your GCA, the better sections and shifts you get because you bring in more money for the restaurant for each and every seat at the tables in your section.

 

[Ronnie]

Great insights @davel501 , thank you.

Why do you think smokers tended to be the best tippers? Are they making up for their cigarette breath? I'm just curious.

I Would have never known that about "Canadians" but am sure that on more than one occasion I've been subject to racial stereo typing and still notice it occasionally now. Like being the only non Caucasian at a table and the only person to be told or reminded that drink refills or add on sides are not free but that is a different subject.

 

[davel501]

Great insights @davel501 , thank you.

Why do you think smokers tended to be the best tippers? Are they making up for their cigarette breath? I'm just curious.

I Would have never known that about "Canadians" but am sure that on more than one occasion I've been subject to racial stereo typing and still notice it occasionally now. Like being the only non Caucasian at a table and the only person to be told or reminded that drink refills or add on sides are not free but that is a different subject.

Best theory I have heard is that smokers just aren't in a hurry. It is like they have ESP though...they were always taking that first deep drag off a fresh cigarette when I rounded the corner with their food.

If you are interested in theories on stereotyping check out emotional intelligence and pattern matching. The idea being that you can be instance besties with someone that you just met because they remind you of your best friend in high school. In your example you reminded them of someone that gave them a hard time before and they either aren't emotionally intelligent enough or too lazy to treat you as a different person. Since race is such a dominant feature to match on for someone that may not interact much with people outside their race they just pattern match on that. It neatly explains why people with more life experience are more open minded and how people's perceptions can be manipulated by messing with the pattern matching.

 

[Ronnie]

@davel501 , thanks again. So if smokers are not in a rush they know they will likely occupy that space/table longer and they tip better because of it? Makes sense too me.

I will look into emotional intelligence and pattern matching of time permits. I just assumed the perps werent or aren't "down with the brown", or I just looked poor/smelled bad. I can work on the latter if that's the problem but not the former, not the I would want to.

 

[Ronnie]

This is my new favorite place to eat and i don't really like falafels (sp?)/pitas much. Why? Simple they refused to take tips of any size. Per the server who was very friendly, helpful and good looking, "your return to eat here again is the best tip we could get and the one we constantly work for". No manager standing over her, no script, nothing. This after I tried to get her to keep the $3.xx change on a $26.xx bill. This is 180 degrees different from the pizza place i ate at last night. A far better attitude towards tipping in my opinion.

 

[GiddYupJoe]

Your nuts @Ronnie i wonder what other topics we could discuss to get you all riled up!? I do enjoy your passion on this subject.

 

[Ronnie]

Thanks. I often go all in to better understand things that interest me. Tonight's topic was religion, specifically giving something up for lent. To symbolically recognize the sacrifices of Jesus when he (supposedly, I question the source, from a layman's perspective the story sounds fishy from the get go) fasted for forty days and forty nights in the desert while resisting the temptations of the devil before beginning his ministry. No offense, I'm just sharing my thoughts on the subject. If you can't tell, im spiritual, not religious. My wife said we gave up chocolate, I said I gave up lent. She said give up chocolate, surfing this site or sex until Easter. I called bs, so now I'm giving up chocolate for lent. Sometimes I just have to choose between the least painful ass whooping.

Staying on topic, I took the crew out to dinner at fuddruckers (Order and pick up at the counter burger place) tonight. The cashier was kind of snooty so I thought I'd take it out of her tip. Went to pay the bill and noticed there was no tip line on It and the tip jar was gone. The only way to leave a tip was in cash on the table. They didn't earn one, so I didn't leave one. My meal was still delicious. I didn't mind refilling my own drinks nor did I miss waiting for a waiter or waitress to refill my glass.

Also just saw a news story about the minimum wage going up 33% from $9 to $12 In some cities around here starting next week. restaurants, some of them, are increasing the price of the food to cover the wage increase but moving to a no tip or no expected tip policy. Sounds like this may have already happened in the city I live in. They interviewed some of the employees and they were as happy as could be about it, at least thats the way they acted on TV.

Things are changing here in CA, good! Looking at my Rolex it's about that time! I'm just kidding, I don't have/can't afford a Rolex.

 

[davel501]

Agreed. I do not understand the arguments in favor of raising the minimum wage. It seems that raising minimum wage will give people an excuse to raise prices. When you have a good excuse why not build in a little extra for yourself? Say minimum wage goes up 33%, why not pass along 42% and build in a little extra profit. Human nature pretty much dictates that prices will go up by more than minimum wage, leaving those at minimum wage worse off than they were before. Seems like a better plan to figure out why anyone but newcomers to the job market are working for minimum wage and fix that structural problem in the economy.

I better stop. This is bordering on political talk.

 

[cyberlock]

Ronnie -I'm still laughing about you eating the piece of sausage that rolled off the pizza at Heavenly because it was so expensive. I felt the same way with my kids meals in London.
I leave 20%, but I really enjoy surprising the server with a 50-100% tip. It just feels good to leave a large tip on a small bill every now and then. I even had a waiter follow me out and thank me in the parking lot.

 

[GTBRMC]

I usually go 15-18% for decent but not extraordinary service. I will go 20+ for truly great service. For poor service I will drop to 10% or so...if I am inclined to go any lower, I will speak to the manager about the poor service.
Also, when my kids were younger and made bigger messes, I typically would add a couple percent more.

PS: To any Americans travelling abroad, make sure to check out the local tipping customs (or lack thereof)...Americans tipping irritate a lot of others, and sometimes the tip recipient can take offense.
I once witnessed a waitress return a tip that was highly offended, it appeared she felt the patron assumed she was a prostitute and was propositioning her.

 

[Glassman]

Great thread you started here Jim.

I'll preface my comments with; I was a busboy/dish washer in junior high and a waiter in high school, so I know a little about tips and tippers.

When I got all growed up I swore to myself that I would never be "That guy" who doesn't give a rat's ass about others. For the most part, I've been true to that.

I do believe that T I P stands for, "To Inspire Promptness" ( some think it's To Insure Promptness, but that's not what Insure means - so I use Inspire). And accordingly I have been known to regularly tip in advance.

Yes, I typically know - as most of us do - about how much a night out / dinner is going to cost, give or take, in advance of going out. Or, as some do, budget a specific amount for a night out (including tips) - does that make sense?

So, if I know about how much I'll be spending, I don't need to wait until the end of a meal to spend it.

If I enter a restaurant - no reservations - and it's busy, I break out the "Roll". I always tip in cash - servers love cash and it keeps the man out of their pocket.
When a place is busy, depending on the quality of the establishment, I'll slip the person at the podium a twenty (or a ten if it's a small joint) and tell her/him, Please do your best, we're famished. If we have reservations I don't usually do this, unless we are in a real big hurry.

It works 99.9% of the time.

Now, I'll get seated - if it's a fancy joint, yeah, I tip the Maitre di. Then the busboy comes by with water and rolls, etc. I'll many times hand him a ten spot and tell him to keep an eye on our table. I learned that move early on in my career as a busboy when the very same thing happened to me. Boy did that guy get good service from me that night! I always will remember that.

So, now that everybody in the joint is happy so far, I size up the waiter or waitress the minute they step up to the table. If I'm entertaining, I make a point to politely whisper to my server that I'll be paying and that he/she should take excellent care of my guests.....then I slip a $20 and say, "Here, this will get the ball rolling, keep the glasses full".

At the end of the night, the tip starts at 20% - it can go up or down, based on the service, the bill with or without tax or based on the number of times the server smiles - it's my party, I make the rules. If it's a big party and they automatically add 15% to the bill, I make a point to supplement that with cash directly to my server.

When it's just my wife and I, I pay with a card and tip in cash. Eff the establishment, they don't need to know how much the waitress got from me. Typically they have to fill out a sheet reporting tips, so I leave that to them to decide how much to put down.

Funny story - true too - recently took a party of twenty or so out to celebrate my wife's birthday. It was a blast, small place, but excellent food and the service was superb! Heck, I can't remember the last time we had so much fun.

When the bill came I handed our waitress the card.......she came back with that neat little leather folder and it was then I realized that I didn't have my glasses. So, squinting like a new born a figured out how much the tip should be and added some more until it felt right. I didn't have much in the way of small bills and my guests had pretty much all filtered out towards the parking lot.

The waitress was very happy that night I can assure you.

I'll leave you with this: