Towing with Tesla Model X

[Murf'n'surf]

I drive a Tesla often and it IS a very impressive vehicle. My only concern of these cars are the end of life battery disposal and the increasing self driving capabilities. The battery disposal issue speaks for itself but the self driving/computerized aspect has me thinking along the lines of regulated speed by insurance companies or government.....I'll keep my fossil fuel burning machine until the end.

 

[thefortunes]

What's the math on these mpg numbers?

Are you using the cost of a watt-hour to back calculate the amount of diatance you can buy in gasoline?

Not sure I have a better solution, just curious how you arrived at those numbers.

Here's the math for the Roadster (yes, I'm using kWh cost to calculate vs gas cost):

My average over the life of the Roadster is 242 Wh/mi. I pay $0.07 per kWh (I charge overnight on time of use billing, which is about half the cost vs during the day). So I pay $0.07 x .242 = $0.01694 per mile for electricity.

$3.00 per gallon / $0.01694 = 177 miles per gallon "equivalent" of cost. In my spreadsheet I actually had it set at $2.75 per gallon which equates to 162 MPG"e" that I rounded down to 150.

Remember, this is the cost to run a car that drives like an exotic. It's not the fastest Tesla anymore, but it is still the most fun.

The EPA does their math a little differently (it's based on how many miles a car can go using the same energy equivalent as a gallon of gas). They rate the Model S at 111 MPGe.

 

[2kwik4u]

Here's the math for the Roadster (yes, I'm using kWh cost to calculate vs gas cost):

My average over the life of the Roadster is 242 Wh/mi. I pay $0.07 per kWh (I charge overnight on time of use billing, which is about half the cost vs during the day). So I pay $0.07 x .242 = $0.01694 per mile for electricity.

$3.00 per gallon / $0.01694 = 177 miles per gallon "equivalent" of cost. In my spreadsheet I actually had it set at $2.75 per gallon which equates to 162 MPG"e" that I rounded down to 150.

Remember, this is the cost to run a car that drives like an exotic. It's not the fastest Tesla anymore, but it is still the most fun.

The EPA does their math a little differently (it's based on how many miles a car can go using the same energy equivalent as a gallon of gas). They rate the Model S at 111 MPGe.

Thank you sir.

I've done some similar calculations previously to look at the relative efficiency of an electric prime mover vs an internal combustion prime mover. Found that most EVs are around 50-60% effective at converting energy into distance, while most ICE's are around 10-15%.

Neat comparison.

 

[adrianp89]

I'm not a fan of the exterior styling of the 3 either - although I do like the "minimalist" interior. I wish it was a little closer to the S design, just smaller, as I think the S is pretty sexy.

Your wife's situation is much like my brother's. He had a LONG (I believe 120 miles each way) commute for a project for about 3 years for which he could either get paid a per diem to stay or get paid mileage. He bought a Model S and was reimbursed $130 a day for his mileage. He supercharged, so had NO cost for electricity. The mileage reimbursement, in effect, paid for the Model S.

Typically, the store will have a car you can drive - you may want to call ahead to make sure.

Sounds like the 3 might be out the window. No cooled seats, no sunroof, no Apple CarPlay. Rather disappointing for a 50k car. I'll prob still take her to the store just to make sure we do our due diligence.

 

[thefortunes]

Sounds like the 3 might be out the window. No cooled seats, no sunroof, no Apple CarPlay. Rather disappointing for a 50k car. I'll prob still take her to the store just to make sure we do our due diligence.

Yep. That is one of the reasons why (very early in this thread) I mentioned my hope for increased competition in the EV market. Tesla definitely lags in some areas.

Although I will say our S has a LARGE sunroof and, if I had to guess, we only open it 2-3 times a year. The glass roof on the 3 is pretty nice.

 

[seanmclean]

My only concern of these cars are the end of life battery disposal. The battery disposal issue speaks for itself

I wonder if there can't be some long-term solution for battery disposal. It takes a very long time before a battery becomes totally worthless, long after it stops being useful to operate a vehicle, for example. I wonder if they can't be reused as very cheap storage solutions for solar homes, for example. The powerwalls are quite expensive, but if they were made with 60% capacity cells that were headed to dispose of anyway, how cheap could they be sold?

 

[thefortunes]

I wonder if there can't be some long-term solution for battery disposal. It takes a very long time before a battery becomes totally worthless, long after it stops being useful to operate a vehicle, for example. I wonder if they can't be reused as very cheap storage solutions for solar homes, for example. The powerwalls are quite expensive, but if they were made with 60% capacity cells that were headed to dispose of anyway, how cheap could they be sold?

That is my understanding of the vision (actually for vehicles batteries become problematic at 70% due to voltage sag and other factors). You can Google various articles where Tesla execs talk about recycling/reusing batteries.

 

[Liftr]

Not sure if you saw my reply last night, but thought I'd add a little more color. I'm really curious where you are looking because I see this around Richmond:
View attachment 107122
The Orange markers are Tesla superchargers, the green are level 2 chargers (think 30-60 miles of range added while you grab lunch).

You are correct, there are chargers near Richmond. That doesn’t help me any near my house. As that would be my jumping off point fully charged.
My destination isn’t even shown on your map.
Look at the blank space between “Hazard, KY” and “Norton, VA”.
All of those Green stations are hotels/businesses, listed for Patrons Only.
And, none of them are on the shortest route.

 

[thefortunes]

You are correct, there are chargers near Richmond. That doesn’t help me any near my house. As that would be my jumping off point fully charged.
My destination isn’t even shown on your map.
Look at the blank space between “Hazard, KY” and “Norton, VA”.
All of those Green stations are hotels/businesses, listed for Patrons Only.
And, none of them are on the shortest route.

I'm really confused.

You originally said Eastern KY to very Eastern, KY, now you are referencing Norton, VA (which is only 63 miles from Hazard, KY and has a charging station free to use about 5 miles away).

What are the actual cities you need to travel between?

ETA if you are actually traveling between Richmond (which is what your signature says) and Norton, VA then there is a supercharger in London, KY (about midway on the preferred Google Maps route).

 

[Dean P]

You have to pretty dumb to run out of gas - but again it happens... literally no difference there. The difference is your day gets a whole lot worse when you run out of juice.

My $.02. The biggest difference is the Tesla is designed to protect itself against you. The car does everything it can to help keep you moving. It cuts way back on power/acceleration all the way down to not recording on sentry mode. This is Tesla trying to help you help yourself. No gas engine comes close to trying to help.

 

[Liftr]

I'm really confused.

You originally said Eastern KY to very Eastern, KY, now you are referencing Norton, VA (which is only 63 miles from Hazard, KY and has a charging station free to use about 5 miles away).

What are the actual cities you need to travel between?

ETA if you are actually traveling between Richmond (which is what your signature says) and Norton, VA then there is a supercharger in London, KY (about midway on the preferred Google Maps route).

This is getting tough. Please pay attention.
My parents live somewhere between Hazard and Norton. In that blank space you see with no chargers (or depicted roads for that matter).

Why in the world would I want to stop in London, KY, only 50 miles from my house, where I have no family, just to charge a battery? Either I would be stopping after the first 50 miles, at 0800, having just left my house, or at 2000L, when I’m almost home.
When I go visit, my day is about 14 hours long, with about 8 hours of driving. 3 hours enroute, a couple of 20 minute errands, a couple hours sitting around for lunch, 30 minutes to the In-laws, couple hours sitting around for dinner, maybe another errand, and 3 hours back home.
BTW, going thru London is neither the shortest, or safest route.

I can appreciate that you really want this to work, but rural life is not conducive to owning an EV with current technology.

 

[thefortunes]

This is getting tough. Please pay attention.
My parents live somewhere between Hazard and Norton. In that blank space you see with no chargers (or depicted roads for that matter).

Why in the world would I want to stop in London, KY, only 50 miles from my house, where I have no family, just to charge a battery? Either I would be stopping after the first 50 miles, at 0800, having just left my house, or at 2000L, when I’m almost home.
When I go visit, my day is about 14 hours long, with about 8 hours of driving. 3 hours enroute, a couple of 20 minute errands, a couple hours sitting around for lunch, 30 minutes to the In-laws, couple hours sitting around for dinner, maybe another errand, and 3 hours back home.
BTW, going thru London is neither the shortest, or safest route.

I can appreciate that you really want this to work, but rural life is not conducive to owning an EV with current technology.

Pay attention? Lol.

Sounds like a crappy day all around. Not knowing "rural Kentucky" I had to trust Google Maps which says that is the correct way to go from Richmond to that area. Obviously you must travel through fields to get there instead.

If you actually are interested in listening and learning, there are solutions. Not sure why you are on this thread if you aren't.

Have a great evening.

 

[Liftr]

Pay attention? Lol.

Sounds like a crappy day all around. Not knowing "rural Kentucky" I had to trust Google Maps which says that is the correct way to go from Richmond to that area. Obviously you must travel through fields to get there instead.

If you actually are interested in listening and learning, there are solutions. Not sure why you are on this thread if you aren't.

Have a great evening.

It’s a great day. I get to see all the people I love.
I’m a great listener, and have learned a lot over the years.
I have 3 Master Electricians in the family. I’m well versed in the subject.
There is no EV solution that does not waste my time. And money; as $105K buys a lot of cars and gasoline.

I guess I’m on this thread as the Devil’s Advocate, because some of EV crowd is behaving like the CrossFit crowd.

 

[thefortunes]

It’s a great day. I get to see all the people I love.
I’m a great listener, and have learned a lot over the years.
I have 3 Master Electricians in the family. I’m well versed in the subject.
There is no EV solution that does not waste my time. And money; as $105K buys a lot of cars and gasoline.

I guess I’m on this thread as the Devil’s Advocate, because some of EV crowd is behaving like the CrossFit crowd.

Glad you enjoy spending 8 hours in a vehicle for 4 hours of visiting. I would make a weekend out of it and relax a little more, but to each his own.

If you have 3 master electricians in the family, you (or they) could install a charger at one of the parents' homes and you could pick up plenty of charge as you visited. It's a simple install, I've done 3. Or you could charge off a regular 120v outlet - I pointed out the math earlier. Or, if it's really 148 miles (296 round trip), you don't need any additional charging since an S gets 370 miles (for $80k, btw).

I'd love to hear the CrossFit=EV crowd analogy.

 

[Liftr]

Man, you are tough. Remember when you scolded me for “listening and learning”?
Please take the time to read for comprehension.
Your math ignored the errands and the mileage to the In-laws. It winds up about 400 miles.
For me to run in and check on the old folks, do their chores, and help them with errands, It’s a price I’m willing to pay.


“The first rule of CrossFit... is to always talk about CrossFit “.

 

[thefortunes]

Man, you are tough. Remember when you scolded me for “listening and learning”?
Please take the time to read for comprehension.
Your math ignored the errands and the mileage to the In-laws. It winds up about 400 miles.
For me to run in and check on the old folks, do their chores, and help them with errands, It’s a price I’m willing to pay.


“The first rule of CrossFit... is to always talk about CrossFit “.

Tough to do math when you still won't provide locations, lol. Errands can be a run to the store a mile from the house, the inlaws can be across town 5 miles. Finally we hear it is 400 miles total.

This is (was) a thread about towing ... with...a... Tesla. This is why we are talking about Teslas.

Just curious, you mentioned this is rural. Either of the folks live on farms? With welding or other 240v outlets already?

Do you really do this all in one day or do you stay overnight?

P.S. What about installing an outlet or charger?

 

[Liftr]

Sweet Jesus. I have laid out the distance for you explicitly. Please read this post https://jetboaters.net/threads/towing-with-tesla-model-x.24448/post-413330. While you’re at it, go back and reread my others if you wish.

Yes, every house in the country has 240V service. But I’m not interested in the expense of adding an outlet, as a crutch, just to make a $100K car capable of making the trip.

Yes, I really do this in one day when I can. I stay over when I need to.
I spend half of my life on the road, so sleeping in my own bed is precious to me.
But, so are my ancestors.

I’m not a troglodyte, I’m not against EV use. (An uptick in the coal business would benefit me greatly! )
It simply just does not work for everyone. Not with the current capabilities and infrastructure.

I can buy, and wear out 3 economy cars, gas included, before I would reach the purchase price of a Tesla.
That being said, I do foresee a mushrooming of charging facilities being installed at commercial locations in order to attract customers.
Here is an opinion article suggesting that:
Electric Charger Gold Rush

 

[thefortunes]

Sweet Jesus. I have laid out the distance for you explicitly. Please read this post https://jetboaters.net/threads/towing-with-tesla-model-x.24448/post-413330. While you’re at it, go back and reread my others if you wish.

Yes, every house in the country has 240V service. But I’m not interested in the expense of adding an outlet, as a crutch, just to make a $100K car capable of making the trip.

Yes, I really do this in one day when I can. I stay over when I need to.
I spend half of my life on the road, so sleeping in my own bed is precious to me.
But, so are my ancestors.

I’m not a troglodyte, I’m not against EV use. (An uptick in the coal business would benefit me greatly! )
It simply just does not work for everyone. Not with the current capabilities and infrastructure.

I can buy, and wear out 3 economy cars, gas included, before I would reach the purchase price of a Tesla.
That being said, I do foresee a mushrooming of charging facilities being installed at commercial locations in order to attract customers.
Here is an opinion article suggesting that:
Electric Charger Gold Rush

You might want to reread the post you linked. No distances referenced. Time is not a measure of distance. The only place you referenced distance was the 148 miles in your original post (until you finally rounded up to 400).

You state very home has 240v service (I'm not sure if you mean 200amp service or if you mean they have 240v outlets, like for welding or other high current applications). If the latter, then you are all set. If the former, it takes about $50 to add a 50a 240v outlet (again, I've done it).

Lol comparing a model S (again, at 80k, not 100k) to an economy car. You obviously haven't driven one.

Not sure why an outlet is a crutch. What do you plug your washer into? Do you use a gas can for the lawn mower? I guess those are crutches too.

Sounds like the bottom line is you prefer to drive an economy car, WHICH IS FINE. You do not buy a Tesla, or an Audi, or a BMW, or a Mercedes to save money. You buy them for the driving and ownership experience.

If you aren't interested in EVs it's ok. That's the beauty of having choices.

 

[seanmclean]

You can buy a couple of EVs for a hundred grand.

 

[Liveto99]

When you two are done with this can you chat about Cobra and JBP fins? I love you guys being nice and yet can hear the voices as I read this increase in volume. Now if people could talk about politics like this the whole country would be better off.