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Towing with Tesla Model X

seanmclean

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@Nakk as per your recommendation I started doing an excel and I gave up on it real quick. But please do look at my assumptions and see if I missed anything.

2018 corrola vs 2018 Model 3 ( 1st year tesla was available). If my memory serves me right the lowest Model 3 you could get in 2018 was at $48,000 ( correct me if I am wrong). The trade in value would have been a bit of $25,000 and about $9,000 for the corolla.

Since you talked about real life MPG and not what wished for, I assumed 25 mpg for corrola, I take you are okay with 25mpg, right!!! I assumed $2.75 per gallon. I also put $0 for fueling the tesla and still you are off $5,000 over 100,000. Should I continue and start talking about insurance cost, tires, etc or this adequate.

I am very supportive of the technology and we will most likely get an electric Mini when it comes out, but I am honest with myself. We will buy the electric Mini because we like it, but not because it will cost us less in the long run. Deceiving yourself and try to make the case that it will cost you less in the long run it is just silly.


CorrolaModel 3
MSRP
19,000​
48,000​
Out of the Door
19,000​
51,000​
trade in
9,100​
25,750​
out of pocket
9,900​
25,250​
MPG
25​
0​
Gallons used in 100K
4,000​
25,250​
total fuell cost
11,000​
0​
Total out of pocket
20,900​
25,250​
You should really compare apples to apples. A bare bones corolla is 19.6, a bare bones Model 3 is 38.9. That delta is already covered at 100K. Now the fuel cost of a Tesla is not zero since you have to pay for electricity at some point (I can charge at work, so could probably get away with rarely charging at home - maybe just Sundays if I use it a lot on the weekend). Maintenance will be cheaper (but not zero) on a Tesla over 100K.

And if we're being really honest, a Model 3 is waaaaaaaay nicer than a Corolla. Can't put a dollar figure on it, but at a negligible (or even cheaper cost) for a Tesla over a few years - I'm going Tesla all day long.

Either way though, I still need to drag a boat around, so I drive a pickup truck - lol. I'm curious to see the Tesla version (and the Rivian) when real world data is available.
 

adrianp89

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You should really compare apples to apples. A bare bones corolla is 19.6, a bare bones Model 3 is 38.9. That delta is already covered at 100K. Now the fuel cost of a Tesla is not zero since you have to pay for electricity at some point (I can charge at work, so could probably get away with rarely charging at home - maybe just Sundays if I use it a lot on the weekend). Maintenance will be cheaper (but not zero) on a Tesla over 100K.

And if we're being really honest, a Model 3 is waaaaaaaay nicer than a Corolla. Can't put a dollar figure on it, but at a negligible (or even cheaper cost) for a Tesla over a few years - I'm going Tesla all day long.

Either way though, I still need to drag a boat around, so I drive a pickup truck - lol. I'm curious to see the Tesla version (and the Rivian) when real world data is available.
If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.
 

seanmclean

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If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.
You and me both. I'd probably live with a 400mi range as long as I'd get 200mi under load.
 

thefortunes

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If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.
2 questions...

1) What is out there that fits those specs now?
2) How often do you drive 700 miles without stopping?
 

adrianp89

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2 questions...

1) What is out there that fits those specs now?
2) How often do you drive 700 miles without stopping?
Nothing is out there right now with both. Otherwise I would own it. The new Ram EcoDiesel should have a range of over a 1,000 miles (I would imagine most of the Big 3 diesels are similar). The Ram TRX should put up those performance numbers, whenever it is released.

Not often - but when I take long road trips I will cover 500-600 miles without stopping.... when I am in the zone I could go longer if not for stopping for gas. A large range like that also means you can tow far as well. If I could make 400-500 miles with the boat behind me - that would be on par with gas.
 

djetok

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If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.
I will take a gas one that will do that. My f150 will get 700 not towing probably 300 mile range towing, tow rating 12340 (although I would never try it) ,my tuned f150 is right at 5.0 on the vbox, never ran the 1/4 in the truck (low 14s / very high 13s ?) and is right at 70k.
 

Nakk

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If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.
You might want to keep an eye on the coming Tesla Pick up reveal... I'm hoping the numbers will be close to those. Certainly will be under 600 mile range, but should be better than 500. Who knows?
 

Mainah

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So the wife decided to order a Tesla Model X. Any one have any experience towing with one of these? It say the towing capacity is 5000# which will be on the edge of the weight of my AR240. She usually has the tow vehicle so I’m debating on buying another truck just as a tow vehicle as I put so many miles on my car for work it doesn’t make sense for me to have a truck. We tow to our marina 3 miles from where the boat is stored maybe 4 times a year once to drop it for the season, a mid season pull out for cleaning and to pull at the end of the season. This is all flat towing with 50 mph speed limits. For any longer trips I would rent a truck if I don’t buy one what are your thoughts or experiences?
I am late to the party and this one has gotten deep already. Back to the original question. Congrats on the new car. My biggest concern would be wind, porpising, and braking. Plenty of torque and if tongue weight set correctly will be ok. Just drive like your are driving on ice with plenty of follow distance, beware of road surface hazards, and use slower movements on low wind days and then everything SHOULD be ok. All assuming only you in an otherwise empty car at the frequency and distance specified. I would still try to borrow a beefier tow rig from a relative, buddy, or neighbor just to be safe. Would hate to have to see a boneheaded boater of the week video featuring yourself.

I do hope evs get either better range or faster charging in the future. More charging stations and heavier hauling capabilities would be required for me. If my use case was different I would already have one. My wife and I both work from home and we have clocked less than 10 miles combined driving In the last 3 days. Hard to justify the upfront expense with those milage numbers and needing vehicles that will haul heavy goods or lots of people the rest of the time. That said I keep up on EVs knowing that someday there will be the right one for our use case at that time.
 

Betik

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Not going to nitpick a dollar here or there (kinda curious why you added $3k to the Tesla MSRP but nothing to the Corolla), but to compare a Tesla Model 3 to a Corolla
my understanding is that Tesla does not negotiate on price, so you will have to pay taxes, fees etc. On the corrola, I am 9% positive you can buy out of the door with whatever the MSRP is. I have bought a lot of toyotas, Hondas etc and never I had an out of the door price higher than MSRP.
 

Nakk

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my understanding is that Tesla does not negotiate on price, so you will have to pay taxes, fees etc. On the corrola, I am 9% positive you can buy out of the door with whatever the MSRP is. I have bought a lot of toyotas, Hondas etc and never I had an out of the door price higher than MSRP.
Good point and very true. That still won't make up for the 10K difference I showed in my cost analysis.
 

swatski

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My biggest concern would be wind, porpising, and braking.
Well, I'm not sure I would agree, very rare for me to say something like that about any of your comments if I may add! lol.

A x tesla high end models push 6,000lbs curb weight. With most of it planted mere 5 inches off of the ground, the center of gravity is ridiculously low there.
Add suction from that low, flat floor, w/ air suspension lowering for the highway, and lets not forget the absolutely crazy-a$$ traction control and braking on all 4 wheels, stability for towing at highway speeds is likely on par with tractor trailers...

--
 

swatski

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Saw this while driving and I could resist.

Will address the faulty logic on the calculations when I get home
Well... I did not take a picture but saw a $4.98 regular gas at a pump in Orange County, CA, just yesterday. So I guess it depends a bit.

If we move over there, my LC200 is going to be sitting in a garage while I commute in a nice little Prius (or a Tesla - if I do well, lol). 😝

--
 

Nakk

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Saw this while driving and I could resist.

Will address the faulty logic on the calculations when I get home
:oops: That will certainly change some of the numbers. I paid 3.72/gallon for premium yesterday... Nice to live near the refineries I guess! I still think $3.50 a gallon over 10 years is a good guess. Admittedly not as conservative as I thought for your area. For mine I'm sure we'll see $5.00 easily. Some Bozo in the Middle East will see to that.
 

Betik

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@thefortunes I am not fooling myself that anyone is cross-shopping between a corolla and model 3. There is a reason why it is called "model 3" and not the "electrolla". Tesla is clearly going after BMW 3 series which I completely agree. I have not even owned a corolla for more than a decade now. The only reason why I am going down this rabbit hole is because I would love to be proven wrong. However, making the claim that owning a tesla is cheaper than a corrolla is either silly or financial incompetence.
 

Beachbummer

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With the other tesla single letter models called S X , Tesla was looking to launch model E but was unable to secure it (I think ford had a model E in the past...)

So, their models are now S 3 X instead of S E X as originally desired...further, the next one will be the Y, so they will turn out to sell models S 3 X Y

I think the gig will be up with the pick up truck, not sure what the model will be, or how it will fit in the master plan to match the existing "pattern".
 

Betik

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@Nakk since you referenced how I got lucky on my first corolla I figured I share my little secret. This is the record for my 2005 Honda element. Sorry I dont have the one from the 1996 corrola. Being a while apparently.

what I want to point out here is for 9 years of ownership and 160,000 miles, I spend less than $4,000 on maintenance.


Date Cost CommentsOdometerLocation
2005
9-Aug $ 22,000.00Purchase97Wade Raleston Honda, Gaineville, Florida
20063,984Gainesville, Florida
14-Mar $ 325.00Side steps 6,357Gaineville, Florida
14-Mar $ 70.00mud guards6,357Gaineville, Florida
11-May $ 30.001st change brake in Oil removed, non-synthetic oil refill, Filter change 10,231Wade Raleston Honda, Gaineville, Florida
11-May $ - Tire Rotation10,231Wade Raleston Honda, Gaineville, Florida
200715,431College Station, Texas
6-Jan $ 29.822nd oil change, non-synthetic refill, Filter Change 15,582Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
20-May $ 29.823rd oil change, non-synthetic refill, Filter Change 21,714Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
19-Jul $ - gasket change, possibly leaking oil, covered under warranty. 26,186Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
1-Aug $ - Tire Rotation cross changes, next time just put front back26,875College Station, Texas
4-Sep $ 30.004th oil change, non-synthetic refill, Filter Change 28,400Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
4-Sep $ 12.00inspection28,400Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
4-Sep $ 29.00windshield whipers change28,400Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
18-Sep $ - Helena's accident, she hit a jeep liberty from behind, and we had to replace the hood, front bumper, raditor, No aibars or injuries involved, look bill for further details 28,736Russel Smith Honda, Houston, Texas
2008 $ - 31,500College Station, Texas
21-Mar $ - Tire rotation 34,200College Station, Texas
29-Mar $ - replace left strut , and aligment 34,827Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
11-Apr $ 9.745th Oil change, purchase , no Filter , non synthetic oil. 5W20 35,398Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
23-Jul $ 31.47cabin filters 39,807Houtson, Texas
23-Jul $ 31.47Engine Air Filter 39,807Houtson, Texas
28-Aug $ 8.006th Oil change, purchase ,Replaced Filter , non synthetic oil. 5W20 40,840Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
2009Willmington Delaware
16-Jan $ 12.007th Oil change, purchase , non synthetic oil. 5W20 46,800Willmington Delaware
16-Jan $ - Tire rotation 46,800Willmington Delaware
17-May $ 12.008th Oil change, purchase , non synthetic oil. 5W20 52,500College Station, Texas
11-Jul $ 20.009th Oil change, Filter change , non synthetic oil. 5W20 59,980Willmington Delaware
12-Oct $ 450.00Tire change 65,200BJ club
13-Oct $ 26.0010th Oil change, No Filter change , non synthetic oil. 5W20 65,250Willmington Delaware
14-Nov $ 60.00cabin filters66,400Willmington Delaware
14-Nov $ - Engine Air Filter 66,400Willmington Delaware
14-Nov $ - Front whipers change66,400Willmington Delaware
14-Nov $ - Front whipers change66,400Willmington Delaware
2010Willmington Delaware
5-Mar $ 26.0011th Oil change, Filter changed , non synthetic oil. 5W20 71,340Willmington Delaware
9-Jun $ 18.0012th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20 77,002Willmington Delaware
10-Jun $ - tire rotation 77,002BJ club
23-Oct $ 350.0013th Oil change, Filter changed , non synthetic oil. 5W20 81,800Willmington Delaware
23-Oct $ - Trasmition fluid changed, it takes about 3 quarters 81,800Willmington Delaware
23-Oct $ - Read differiantial fluid changed, it takes about 1 quarter81,800Willmington Delaware
23-Oct $ - Brakes Front & Rear pads changed81,800Willmington Delaware
23-Oct $ - Brake Fluid replaced 81,800Willmington Delaware
2011
12-Mar $ 20.0014th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20 87,200Willmington Delaware
15-Jun $ 20.0015th Oil change, filter change, non synthetic oil. 5W20 91,500Willmington Delaware
10-Oct $ 320.00Hitch 94,000Addison, TX
26-Nov $ 20.0016th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20 95,700Addison, TX
2012Frisco, TX
3-Mar $ 25.0017th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 10W30 + filter chnage 102,653Frisco, TX
23-Jul $ 25.0018th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20110,455Frisco, TX
1-Sep $ - Engine Air Filter 112,000Frisco, TX
1-Sep $ - Rotated tires Front back 112,000Frisco, TX
1-Dec $ 190.00serpentine belt change + bought a bunch of filters 116,162Frisco, TX
8-Dec $ 25.0019th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20 +Filter changed116,162Frisco, TX
14-Dec $ 180.00Valve adjustment 116,500Honda of McKinney, TX
2013
15-Mar $ 25.0020th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20122,500Frisco, TX
30-Jun $ 160.0021st Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20+ filter change 129,000Frisco, TX
30-Jun $ - 2nd trasmission fluid change no filter129,000Frisco, TX
30-Jun $ - 2nd differential fluid change 129,000Frisco, TX
30-Jun $ - 1st Antifreeze fluid change 129,000Frisco, TX
30-Jun $ - tire rotation 129,000Frisco, TX
19-Aug $ 25.0022nd Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20.133,500Frisco, TX
4-Nov $ - Engine Air Filter & Cabin Filter Changed 137,400Frisco, TX
12-Nov $ 570.00tires replaced139,277Sams club Plano Tx
1-Dec $ 25.0023rd Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20.140,000Frisco, TX
2014
21-Mar $ 95.00Front Breaks replaced Roders turned 144,500Frisco, TX
19-Apr $ 25.0024th Oil and Filter change145,500
19-Apr $ - Tire Rotation145,500Sams club Plano Tx
15-Aug $ 25.0025th oil and Filter change 150,500Frisco, TX
11-Nov $ 215.00windshield replaced after I cracked by putting in a 36 foot ladder153,000Frisco, TX
22-Dec $ 25.0026th oil and Filter change 153,800Frisco, TX
22-Dec $ - Cabin filter changed
22-Dec $ - Engine air filter changed
7-Mar $ - 27th oil change 158,600Frisco, TX
30-Mar $ 320.00buschings replaced on the front axle159,000Kwuick Kars, Fricso, TX
traded in for Prius
$ 25,945.31
$ 3,945.31Everything else but the purchase
 

Betik

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Well... I did not take a picture but saw a $4.98 regular gas at a pump in Orange County, CA, just yesterday. So I guess it depends a bit.
If we move over there, my LC200 is going to be sitting in a garage while I commute in a nice little Prius (or a Tesla - if I do well, lol). 😝
--
dont joke about moving here, you know you are breaking my heart LOL. jokes aside when things get bad, you know everyone will be jumping on LC not a tesla.
 

Betik

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@Nakk I am not sure how you can project at 10 year deprecation on a vehicle with no 10 years worth of history. Model S or roadster ratio will no apply to Model 3 because of supply and demand dynamics 10 years from now are going to be different. To give you an example, think of Iphone 4 or 5 a few year back. It was hot potatoes, now it doesn't even exist. Recall also how Toyota Prius used to sale $4K over MSRP and now Toyota has rebates on them on regular basis. If i had to guess, I would say that 10 year from now, either a corolla or model 3 will not be worth sh*t. @swatski LC might still be worth 30K in 2030, but these run of the mill corollas or model 3, I would not plan to get much as trade in value. In my book, this vehicles you buy them as write off. Even if model 3 is being charged by solar power the gap ( $27,000) in 10 years is too much to close. Maybe you have a shot in states like California, but realistically speaking it does not make business sense. Which is one the reasons why cab drives have corollas and prius but rarely you see them with Model 3s.

I know I sound like I love ICE and hate EVs. Quite the opposite. We have 3.5 year old prius with 110,000 miles that tows our ski. And I love that car. It did take me 84,000 miles to pay off the hybrid premium over a corolla, but we like it. Hard to justify it financially, but it makes me happy, so we got it.



Corrola Model 3
MSRP 19,600 39,000
Out of the Door 19,600 41,730
Financing 20K at 4.5% for 10 yrs 4,873
fixed cost Total 19,600 46,603
 
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