Towing with Tesla Model X

[Bluewater272]

@Nakk as per your recommendation I started doing an excel and I gave up on it real quick. But please do look at my assumptions and see if I missed anything.

2018 corrola vs 2018 Model 3 ( 1st year tesla was available). If my memory serves me right the lowest Model 3 you could get in 2018 was at $48,000 ( correct me if I am wrong). The trade in value would have been a bit of $25,000 and about $9,000 for the corolla.

Since you talked about real life MPG and not what wished for, I assumed 25 mpg for corrola, I take you are okay with 25mpg, right!!! I assumed $2.75 per gallon. I also put $0 for fueling the tesla and still you are off $5,000 over 100,000. Should I continue and start talking about insurance cost, tires, etc or this adequate.

I am very supportive of the technology and we will most likely get an electric Mini when it comes out, but I am honest with myself. We will buy the electric Mini because we like it, but not because it will cost us less in the long run. Deceiving yourself and try to make the case that it will cost you less in the long run it is just silly.

	Corrola	Model 3
MSRP	19,000​	48,000​
Out of the Door	19,000​	51,000​
trade in	9,100​	25,750​
out of pocket	9,900​	25,250​
MPG	25​	0​
Gallons used in 100K	4,000​	25,250​
total fuell cost	11,000​	0​
Total out of pocket	20,900​	25,250​

You should really compare apples to apples. A bare bones corolla is 19.6, a bare bones Model 3 is 38.9. That delta is already covered at 100K. Now the fuel cost of a Tesla is not zero since you have to pay for electricity at some point (I can charge at work, so could probably get away with rarely charging at home - maybe just Sundays if I use it a lot on the weekend). Maintenance will be cheaper (but not zero) on a Tesla over 100K.

And if we're being really honest, a Model 3 is waaaaaaaay nicer than a Corolla. Can't put a dollar figure on it, but at a negligible (or even cheaper cost) for a Tesla over a few years - I'm going Tesla all day long.

Either way though, I still need to drag a boat around, so I drive a pickup truck - lol. I'm curious to see the Tesla version (and the Rivian) when real world data is available.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

You should really compare apples to apples. A bare bones corolla is 19.6, a bare bones Model 3 is 38.9. That delta is already covered at 100K. Now the fuel cost of a Tesla is not zero since you have to pay for electricity at some point (I can charge at work, so could probably get away with rarely charging at home - maybe just Sundays if I use it a lot on the weekend). Maintenance will be cheaper (but not zero) on a Tesla over 100K.

And if we're being really honest, a Model 3 is waaaaaaaay nicer than a Corolla. Can't put a dollar figure on it, but at a negligible (or even cheaper cost) for a Tesla over a few years - I'm going Tesla all day long.

Either way though, I still need to drag a boat around, so I drive a pickup truck - lol. I'm curious to see the Tesla version (and the Rivian) when real world data is available.

If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.

 

[Bluewater272]

If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.

You and me both. I'd probably live with a 400mi range as long as I'd get 200mi under load.

 

[thefortunes]

If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.

2 questions...

1) What is out there that fits those specs now?
2) How often do you drive 700 miles without stopping?

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

2 questions...

1) What is out there that fits those specs now?
2) How often do you drive 700 miles without stopping?

Nothing is out there right now with both. Otherwise I would own it. The new Ram EcoDiesel should have a range of over a 1,000 miles (I would imagine most of the Big 3 diesels are similar). The Ram TRX should put up those performance numbers, whenever it is released.

Not often - but when I take long road trips I will cover 500-600 miles without stopping.... when I am in the zone I could go longer if not for stopping for gas. A large range like that also means you can tow far as well. If I could make 400-500 miles with the boat behind me - that would be on par with gas.

 

[djetok]

If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.

I will take a gas one that will do that. My f150 will get 700 not towing probably 300 mile range towing, tow rating 12340 (although I would never try it) ,my tuned f150 is right at 5.0 on the vbox, never ran the 1/4 in the truck (low 14s / very high 13s ?) and is right at 70k.

 

[Nakk]

If they could build a pick up with a 700 mile range, can tow 12k, does 0-60 in 4 sec, 1/4 in 12s.. and keep it under 70k - I would probably be first in line.

You might want to keep an eye on the coming Tesla Pick up reveal... I'm hoping the numbers will be close to those. Certainly will be under 600 mile range, but should be better than 500. Who knows?

 

[Mainah]

So the wife decided to order a Tesla Model X. Any one have any experience towing with one of these? It say the towing capacity is 5000# which will be on the edge of the weight of my AR240. She usually has the tow vehicle so I’m debating on buying another truck just as a tow vehicle as I put so many miles on my car for work it doesn’t make sense for me to have a truck. We tow to our marina 3 miles from where the boat is stored maybe 4 times a year once to drop it for the season, a mid season pull out for cleaning and to pull at the end of the season. This is all flat towing with 50 mph speed limits. For any longer trips I would rent a truck if I don’t buy one what are your thoughts or experiences?

I am late to the party and this one has gotten deep already. Back to the original question. Congrats on the new car. My biggest concern would be wind, porpising, and braking. Plenty of torque and if tongue weight set correctly will be ok. Just drive like your are driving on ice with plenty of follow distance, beware of road surface hazards, and use slower movements on low wind days and then everything SHOULD be ok. All assuming only you in an otherwise empty car at the frequency and distance specified. I would still try to borrow a beefier tow rig from a relative, buddy, or neighbor just to be safe. Would hate to have to see a boneheaded boater of the week video featuring yourself.

I do hope evs get either better range or faster charging in the future. More charging stations and heavier hauling capabilities would be required for me. If my use case was different I would already have one. My wife and I both work from home and we have clocked less than 10 miles combined driving In the last 3 days. Hard to justify the upfront expense with those milage numbers and needing vehicles that will haul heavy goods or lots of people the rest of the time. That said I keep up on EVs knowing that someday there will be the right one for our use case at that time.

 

[Betik]

Not going to nitpick a dollar here or there (kinda curious why you added $3k to the Tesla MSRP but nothing to the Corolla), but to compare a Tesla Model 3 to a Corolla

my understanding is that Tesla does not negotiate on price, so you will have to pay taxes, fees etc. On the corrola, I am 9% positive you can buy out of the door with whatever the MSRP is. I have bought a lot of toyotas, Hondas etc and never I had an out of the door price higher than MSRP.

 

[Nakk]

my understanding is that Tesla does not negotiate on price, so you will have to pay taxes, fees etc. On the corrola, I am 9% positive you can buy out of the door with whatever the MSRP is. I have bought a lot of toyotas, Hondas etc and never I had an out of the door price higher than MSRP.

Good point and very true. That still won't make up for the 10K difference I showed in my cost analysis.

 

[swatski]

My biggest concern would be wind, porpising, and braking.

Well, I'm not sure I would agree, very rare for me to say something like that about any of your comments if I may add! lol.

A x tesla high end models push 6,000lbs curb weight. With most of it planted mere 5 inches off of the ground, the center of gravity is ridiculously low there.
Add suction from that low, flat floor, w/ air suspension lowering for the highway, and lets not forget the absolutely crazy-a$$ traction control and braking on all 4 wheels, stability for towing at highway speeds is likely on par with tractor trailers...

--

 

[Betik]

Saw this while driving and I could resist.

Will address the faulty logic on the calculations when I get home

 

[swatski]

Saw this while driving and I could resist.

Will address the faulty logic on the calculations when I get home

Well... I did not take a picture but saw a $4.98 regular gas at a pump in Orange County, CA, just yesterday. So I guess it depends a bit.

If we move over there, my LC200 is going to be sitting in a garage while I commute in a nice little Prius (or a Tesla - if I do well, lol). ?

--

 

[Nakk]

Saw this while driving and I could resist.

Will address the faulty logic on the calculations when I get home

That will certainly change some of the numbers. I paid 3.72/gallon for premium yesterday... Nice to live near the refineries I guess! I still think $3.50 a gallon over 10 years is a good guess. Admittedly not as conservative as I thought for your area. For mine I'm sure we'll see $5.00 easily. Some Bozo in the Middle East will see to that.

 

[Betik]

@thefortunes I am not fooling myself that anyone is cross-shopping between a corolla and model 3. There is a reason why it is called "model 3" and not the "electrolla". Tesla is clearly going after BMW 3 series which I completely agree. I have not even owned a corolla for more than a decade now. The only reason why I am going down this rabbit hole is because I would love to be proven wrong. However, making the claim that owning a tesla is cheaper than a corrolla is either silly or financial incompetence.

 

[Beachbummer]

With the other tesla single letter models called S X , Tesla was looking to launch model E but was unable to secure it (I think ford had a model E in the past...)

So, their models are now S 3 X instead of S E X as originally desired...further, the next one will be the Y, so they will turn out to sell models S 3 X Y

I think the gig will be up with the pick up truck, not sure what the model will be, or how it will fit in the master plan to match the existing "pattern".

 

[Betik]

@Nakk since you referenced how I got lucky on my first corolla I figured I share my little secret. This is the record for my 2005 Honda element. Sorry I dont have the one from the 1996 corrola. Being a while apparently.

what I want to point out here is for 9 years of ownership and 160,000 miles, I spend less than $4,000 on maintenance.

Date	Cost	Comments		Odometer	Location
2005
9-Aug	$ 22,000.00	Purchase		97	Wade Raleston Honda, Gaineville, Florida
2006				3,984	Gainesville, Florida
14-Mar	$ 325.00	Side steps		6,357	Gaineville, Florida
14-Mar	$ 70.00	mud guards		6,357	Gaineville, Florida
11-May	$ 30.00	1st change brake in Oil removed, non-synthetic oil refill, Filter change	10,231	Wade Raleston Honda, Gaineville, Florida
11-May	$ -	Tire Rotation		10,231	Wade Raleston Honda, Gaineville, Florida
2007				15,431	College Station, Texas
6-Jan	$ 29.82	2nd oil change, non-synthetic refill, Filter Change	15,582	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
20-May	$ 29.82	3rd oil change, non-synthetic refill, Filter Change	21,714	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
19-Jul	$ -	gasket change, possibly leaking oil, covered under warranty.	26,186	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
1-Aug	$ -	Tire Rotation cross changes, next time just put front back	26,875	College Station, Texas
4-Sep	$ 30.00	4th oil change, non-synthetic refill, Filter Change	28,400	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
4-Sep	$ 12.00	inspection		28,400	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
4-Sep	$ 29.00	windshield whipers change		28,400	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
18-Sep	$ -	Helena's accident, she hit a jeep liberty from behind, and we had to replace the hood, front bumper, raditor, No aibars or injuries involved, look bill for further details	28,736	Russel Smith Honda, Houston, Texas
2008	$ -			31,500	College Station, Texas
21-Mar	$ -	Tire rotation		34,200	College Station, Texas
29-Mar	$ -	replace left strut , and aligment		34,827	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
11-Apr	$ 9.74	5th Oil change, purchase , no Filter , non synthetic oil. 5W20	35,398	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
23-Jul	$ 31.47	cabin filters		39,807	Houtson, Texas
23-Jul	$ 31.47	Engine Air Filter		39,807	Houtson, Texas
28-Aug	$ 8.00	6th Oil change, purchase ,Replaced Filter , non synthetic oil. 5W20	40,840	Allen Honda, College Station, Texas
2009					Willmington Delaware
16-Jan	$ 12.00	7th Oil change, purchase , non synthetic oil. 5W20	46,800	Willmington Delaware
16-Jan	$ -	Tire rotation		46,800	Willmington Delaware
17-May	$ 12.00	8th Oil change, purchase , non synthetic oil. 5W20	52,500	College Station, Texas
11-Jul	$ 20.00	9th Oil change, Filter change , non synthetic oil. 5W20	59,980	Willmington Delaware
12-Oct	$ 450.00	Tire change		65,200	BJ club
13-Oct	$ 26.00	10th Oil change, No Filter change , non synthetic oil. 5W20	65,250	Willmington Delaware
14-Nov	$ 60.00	cabin filters		66,400	Willmington Delaware
14-Nov	$ -	Engine Air Filter		66,400	Willmington Delaware
14-Nov	$ -	Front whipers change		66,400	Willmington Delaware
14-Nov	$ -	Front whipers change		66,400	Willmington Delaware
2010					Willmington Delaware
5-Mar	$ 26.00	11th Oil change, Filter changed , non synthetic oil. 5W20	71,340	Willmington Delaware
9-Jun	$ 18.00	12th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20	77,002	Willmington Delaware
10-Jun	$ -	tire rotation		77,002	BJ club
23-Oct	$ 350.00	13th Oil change, Filter changed , non synthetic oil. 5W20	81,800	Willmington Delaware
23-Oct	$ -	Trasmition fluid changed, it takes about 3 quarters	81,800	Willmington Delaware
23-Oct	$ -	Read differiantial fluid changed, it takes about 1 quarter	81,800	Willmington Delaware
23-Oct	$ -	Brakes Front & Rear pads changed	81,800	Willmington Delaware
23-Oct	$ -	Brake Fluid replaced		81,800	Willmington Delaware
2011
12-Mar	$ 20.00	14th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20	87,200	Willmington Delaware
15-Jun	$ 20.00	15th Oil change, filter change, non synthetic oil. 5W20	91,500	Willmington Delaware
10-Oct	$ 320.00	Hitch		94,000	Addison, TX
26-Nov	$ 20.00	16th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20	95,700	Addison, TX
2012					Frisco, TX
3-Mar	$ 25.00	17th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 10W30 + filter chnage	102,653	Frisco, TX
23-Jul	$ 25.00	18th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20	110,455	Frisco, TX
1-Sep	$ -	Engine Air Filter		112,000	Frisco, TX
1-Sep	$ -	Rotated tires Front back		112,000	Frisco, TX
1-Dec	$ 190.00	serpentine belt change + bought a bunch of filters	116,162	Frisco, TX
8-Dec	$ 25.00	19th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20 +Filter changed	116,162	Frisco, TX
14-Dec	$ 180.00	Valve adjustment		116,500	Honda of McKinney, TX
2013
15-Mar	$ 25.00	20th Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20	122,500	Frisco, TX
30-Jun	$ 160.00	21st Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20+ filter change	129,000	Frisco, TX
30-Jun	$ -	2nd trasmission fluid change no filter	129,000	Frisco, TX
30-Jun	$ -	2nd differential fluid change		129,000	Frisco, TX
30-Jun	$ -	1st Antifreeze fluid change		129,000	Frisco, TX
30-Jun	$ -	tire rotation		129,000	Frisco, TX
19-Aug	$ 25.00	22nd Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20.	133,500	Frisco, TX
4-Nov	$ -	Engine Air Filter & Cabin Filter Changed	137,400	Frisco, TX
12-Nov	$ 570.00	tires replaced		139,277	Sams club Plano Tx
1-Dec	$ 25.00	23rd Oil change, non synthetic oil. 5W20.	140,000	Frisco, TX
2014
21-Mar	$ 95.00	Front Breaks replaced Roders turned	144,500	Frisco, TX
19-Apr	$ 25.00	24th Oil and Filter change		145,500
19-Apr	$ -	Tire Rotation		145,500	Sams club Plano Tx
15-Aug	$ 25.00	25th oil and Filter change		150,500	Frisco, TX
11-Nov	$ 215.00	windshield replaced after I cracked by putting in a 36 foot ladder	153,000	Frisco, TX
22-Dec	$ 25.00	26th oil and Filter change		153,800	Frisco, TX
22-Dec	$ -	Cabin filter changed
22-Dec	$ -	Engine air filter changed
7-Mar	$ -	27th oil change		158,600	Frisco, TX
30-Mar	$ 320.00	buschings replaced on the front axle	159,000	Kwuick Kars, Fricso, TX
		traded in for Prius
	$ 25,945.31
	$ 3,945.31	Everything else but the purchase

 

[Betik]

Well... I did not take a picture but saw a $4.98 regular gas at a pump in Orange County, CA, just yesterday. So I guess it depends a bit.
If we move over there, my LC200 is going to be sitting in a garage while I commute in a nice little Prius (or a Tesla - if I do well, lol). ?
--

dont joke about moving here, you know you are breaking my heart LOL. jokes aside when things get bad, you know everyone will be jumping on LC not a tesla.

 

[Betik]

@Nakk you made the claim that the Tesla's are made to last. Do you have any insights on happened to the Tesla at the ring ???

Watch Broke Down Tesla Model S Plaid Get Rescued At Nurburgring

 

[Betik]

@Nakk I am not sure how you can project at 10 year deprecation on a vehicle with no 10 years worth of history. Model S or roadster ratio will no apply to Model 3 because of supply and demand dynamics 10 years from now are going to be different. To give you an example, think of Iphone 4 or 5 a few year back. It was hot potatoes, now it doesn't even exist. Recall also how Toyota Prius used to sale $4K over MSRP and now Toyota has rebates on them on regular basis. If i had to guess, I would say that 10 year from now, either a corolla or model 3 will not be worth sh*t. @swatski LC might still be worth 30K in 2030, but these run of the mill corollas or model 3, I would not plan to get much as trade in value. In my book, this vehicles you buy them as write off. Even if model 3 is being charged by solar power the gap ( $27,000) in 10 years is too much to close. Maybe you have a shot in states like California, but realistically speaking it does not make business sense. Which is one the reasons why cab drives have corollas and prius but rarely you see them with Model 3s.

I know I sound like I love ICE and hate EVs. Quite the opposite. We have 3.5 year old prius with 110,000 miles that tows our ski. And I love that car. It did take me 84,000 miles to pay off the hybrid premium over a corolla, but we like it. Hard to justify it financially, but it makes me happy, so we got it.

	Corrola	Model 3
MSRP	19,600	39,000
Out of the Door	19,600	41,730
Financing 20K at 4.5% for 10 yrs		4,873
fixed cost Total	19,600	46,603