Who would be interested in a group buy on impellers?

[jcyamaharider]

I just called impros so this is happening sooner or later. I am doing 2 low end pitched dana flys (sp?) , 2 wear ring housings with plastic inserts, and 2 pump rebuild kits with the required tools of course.

 

[swatski]

@Bruce Yes I have a 2010 AR240

I did a full write up at one point, link is bellow. Also info on other website.

If I was to do it again I think I would just get solas and put them in. Boat had great low end for surfing and never any cavitation. Still went 46mph.

Currently with the solas and repitched (port twice) I feel as if I get slight cavitation or a frothy jet with weight when surfing. But still much better than stock.

Also when going to the solas I did not get anymore impeller banging when boat out of water, so you guys may not need new pump housing.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/solas-impellers-before-and-after-impros-pitch-adjust.922/

View attachment 29777 I have a spline tool if anyone wants to use it. We're moving in the near future so its likely i'll misplace it anyway, if I havent already. They arent expensive so might be more effort to mail it out than its worth, but the offer is out there anyway.

Changing the shaft would require a press to remove/install the bearings. The shafts are over $300 I think. You should never need to replace one.

Approach the impeller changing job with plenty of time, patience, beer, and muscle... and access to large breaker bars, wrenches, torches and bench vises. It can be a real bitch, and other times its cake. The dealer couldnt even do it, they gave up after breaking their workbench and vise. Believe it or not I was able to reuse the shaft that this impeller came off of!

I used Impros and wouldnt do it any other way. They custom pitched the impellers based on what I wanted using their proprietary methods and I couldnt be happier.

I just called impros so this is happening sooner or later. I am doing 2 low end pitched dana flys (sp?) , 2 wear ring housings with plastic inserts, and 2 pump rebuild kits with the required tools of course.

I will throw in my 2 cents in here.

1. THE BEST tool for getting the OEM impeller off (before you have to cut it up) - a rare HD find for $9.98 or so. Fits great, can be adjusted to tighten it up and leveraged with ease:



2. Buy new. I have done a lot of testing, and the refurbished never seem to work the same as new. Fine for a spare.

3. Solas Concords and Skat Swirls are A LOT smoother than the OEM. But, the OEM are the best for pure PERFORMANCE overall. I have tried many combinations. I did not try Solas Dynaflys, I believe @Speedling using these with great success in his HO MR-1 212. I also never tried dual-props.

For me - I will stick with OEM impellers. Tried very hard to prove that aftermarkets are an upgrade but, strictly for performance, hard to beat the OEM. My single engine boat presents a particular challenge and I need all the performance I can get, you may be happy with aftermarkets in twins. But based on what I have learned, my money is on the OEM.

Best prices I find for OEM parts:
Amy Kirk
Powersports Parts 4 Less
info@powersportsparts4less.com

If you go the OEM route, finding the specs can be tricky. Here is the information on the factory impeller specs, I finally found it buried somewhere on Greenhulk (thank you , Jerry Gaddis):

 

[jcyamaharider]

I will throw in my 2 cents in here.

1. THE BEST tool for getting the OEM impeller off (before you have to cut it up) - a rare HD find for $9.98 or so. Fits great, can be adjusted to tighten it up and leveraged with ease:

View attachment 33094View attachment 33095

2. Buy new. I have done a lot of testing, and the refurbished never seem to work the same as new. Fine for a spare.

3. Solas Concords and Skat Swirls are A LOT smoother than the OEM. But, the OEM are the best for pure PERFORMANCE overall. I have tried many combinations. I did not try Solas Dynaflys, I believe @Speedling using these with great success in his HO MR-1 212. I also never tried dual-props.

For me - I will stick with OEM impellers. Tried very hard to prove that aftermarkets are an upgrade but, strictly for performance, hard to beat the OEM. My single engine boat presents a particular challenge and I need all the performance I can get, you may be happy with aftermarkets in twins. But based on what I have learned, my money is on the OEM.

Best prices I find for OEM parts:
Amy Kirk
Powersports Parts 4 Less
info@powersportsparts4less.com

If you go the OEM route, finding the specs can be tricky. Here is the information on the factory impeller specs, I finally found it buried somewhere on Greenhulk (thank you , Jerry Gaddis):

View attachment 33096

I have been in a boat with dual danaflys and they helped big time with the shot out of the hole, which is what I am after for surfing. Impros said I will not loose top end as well which is great!! My boat can hit 50 right now, not that we do that often.

@swatski thanks for the other tips!

 

[Chillypilot]

Do I have to rebuild the whole pump if I buy new impellers. My boat only has a little over 100hrs. I was just thinking it was going to be as easy as taking of the old one (I realize that can be a challenge) and screw on a new one.

 

[Bruce]

@swatski, I wonder if any of your contacts would be interested in a group sale? I was unsuccessful at finding a vendor to do so.

 

[swatski]

Do I have to rebuild the whole pump if I buy new impellers. My boat only has a little over 100hrs. I was just thinking it was going to be as easy as taking of the old one (I realize that can be a challenge) and screw on a new one.

You will be just swapping the impeller, it is really simple. You can also do the wear ring if you so chose, although the wearing is probably okay, the stainless steel liners in OEM wear rings can last forever.

You will not need to reset the cone/impeller bearings unless they are bad. If you have a problem with your impeller/cone bearings, you will know, as below.

If you guys remove your pumps, check your cone bearings for resistance and noise. You'll hear it if you have a problem.

 

[Chillypilot]

@swatski thanks for the info. I was getting worried this might be a little bigger project than I intended.

 

[swatski]

@swatski, I wonder if any of your contacts would be interested in a group sale? I was unsuccessful at finding a vendor to do so.

For OEM parts I would try PowersportsParts4less. Great service. But, I can tell you it wouldn't be much of additional discount for volume, as they are already pretty discounted. I have been able to get partial shipping discounts from Amy there (based on actual shipping cost), which is nice. Maybe @CrankyGypsy knows more, I think he has originally reported on that supplier.

For aftermarket impellers - it all depends. It could be like herding cats...
I would be happy to contact Jerry, see what he can do through his Greenhulk store. I'm sure he would give us a deal. But he is not cheap to start with.

 

[Ronnie]

I have been in a boat with dual danaflys and they helped big time with the shot out of the hole, which is what I am after for surfing. Impros said I will not loose top end as well which is great!! My boat can hit 50 right now, not that we do that often.

@swatski thanks for the other tips!

Impros did my boat up with dual custom pitched dynaflys and o love it. Smoother acceleration and better whole shot with no "noticeable" loss in top speed. Good stuff.

The first time taking the impellers off was a real PITA for me, bought all the tools and tried until I was sore all over before bringing the assemblies to a Pwc shop.

 

[dan144k]

Would anyone know the difference between the dynafly and the concorde impellers from impros, or which to choose and why?

Also riva makes a setback type custom impeller, any application for these on our boats?

I am thinking of just getting the lucky 7 cone and tuning my existing impellers to hook up better for me when loaded with ballast..

 

[Ronnie]

I can't tell the difference between the two, at least not by what's stated on the solas website. I followed Impros recommendation after telling them the altitude I generally boat at and what performance improvement I was looking for (faster hole shot with less cavitation and little or no loss of top speed). They sent me two 13/19 Concords at least one of them, maybe both are repitched (don't know as understandably Impros won't say exactly what they did to them). Not cheap but a lot less expensive than doing the trial and error thing myself. Pre Impros congifigurations you had to install, test, remove, repitch sometimes several times to get the results you wanted while still keeping the throttles in or close to synch. Some places just sold the same impellers pitch and all other sold impellers with different pitches out of the box. Recall that the stock impellers are pitched slightly differently.


I'm thinking about the cones as well but the solas impellers have eliminated all of the cavitation I ised to experience when going quickly from idle to wot so Unless the cones improve the top speed I don't think I would have any use for them at $300 each. Don't be surprised the impro impellers are close to $400 each.

 

[jcyamaharider]

They just quoted me $285 each last night.

 

[Ronnie]

Hmm, I didn't get that price. The wrench was another $20 but I'm sure I was close to $400 for two just a year ago or so. Not sure if I ordered different nose cones or not or if it was taxed. Worth every penny though, I can't say the Same for all of the other "performance upgrades" I've done.

 

[swatski]

I agree with what everyone is saying. And that is a great price @jcyamaharider for Impros, I paid $325 plus shipping for Concords last year.

Anyhow, the hard part is fine tuning the prop... Part of the problem is, in most cases we change the impellers when damaged. Which makes it rather difficult to get a good feel for any differences between models - the new impeller will always feel a whole lot better than the one you just used to find some rocks with.
So, until you start swapping and repitching undamaged impellers in your boat, nothing else is truly informative.

Here is what @Speedling is running, and he knows his stuff. If I was running a 230, that is what I would do!

http://www.amazon.com/Solas-DynaFly-Impeller-Pitch-YG-DF-14/dp/B000GVETZK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447066289&sr=8-1&keywords=solas+impeller+dynafly+yg-df-14+20
Solas DynaFly 14-20

In my experience with 1.8l - I am honestly thinking the OEM prop with its longer blades is the best performer... I'm certain of it for a single engine boat, twins are little less prone to hole shot cavitation, so I am less certain. And with less blade surface, Solas should be the fastest. If you look at the side-by-side comparison with the OEM (or even Skat Swirl), Solas has much shorter, far less ovelapping blades.

Here is Skat Swirl, Solas Concord, OEM:


Regarding the Lucky 13 cone, I can not say enough good things about it. But, it is not a “one-size-fit-all” panacea for holeshot cavitation issues. For example, when I ran the L13 pump cone with a Solas Concord 13/19 prop, which gives me the worst hole shot cavitation, the cone did not help much for whatever reason. With OEM impeller, it was a different story all together. The Skat Swirl impeller falls somewhere in between. At any rate, you will have to tweak it to get best results - swapping spacers, boring the venturi nozzle and tweaking impeller pitch. Unless someone could tell me exactly what to do, I would not want to subject myself to it with a twin - I would just drive myself too crazy. You end up doing this (on top of swapping props or adjusting pitch):

Hmm, what spacers to choose...


Hmm, how much to bore the venturi...

 

[thcole]

I have a 2005 ar230 and I think it is still on the original impellers. I think this is going to be a spring project. I am following this closely to help in what I want to get. Looking for maybe a little better hole shot. But once I put the boat in the water in the spring it does not come out of the water till fall. I need a set it and forget it set up.

 

[Speedling]

I agree with what everyone is saying. And that is a great price @jcyamaharider for Impros, I paid $325 plus shipping for Concords last year.

Anyhow, the hard part is fine tuning the prop... Part of the problem is, in most cases we change the impellers when damaged. Which makes it rather difficult to get a good feel for any differences between models - the new impeller will always feel a whole lot better than the one you just used to find some rocks with.
So, until you start swapping and repitching undamaged impellers in your boat, nothing else is truly informative.

Here is what @Speedling is running, and he knows his stuff. If I was running a 230, that is what I would do!


In my experience with 1.8l - I am honestly thinking the OEM prop with its longer blades is the best performer... I'm certain of it for a single engine boat, twins are little less prone to hole shot cavitation, so I am less certain. And with less blade surface, Solas should be the fastest. If you look at the side-by-side comparison with the OEM (or even Skat Swirl), Solas has much shorter, far less ovelapping blades.

Here is Skat Swirl, Solas Concord, OEM:
View attachment 33106

Regarding the Lucky 13 cone, I can not say enough good things about it. But, it is not a “one-size-fit-all” panacea for holeshot cavitation issues. For example, when I ran the L13 pump cone with a Solas Concord 13/19 prop, which gives me the worst hole shot cavitation, the cone did not help much for whatever reason. With OEM impeller, it was a different story all together. The Skat Swirl impeller falls somewhere in between. At any rate, you will have to tweak it to get best results - swapping spacers, boring the venturi nozzle and tweaking impeller pitch. Unless someone could tell me exactly what to do, I would not want to subject myself to it with a twin - I would just drive myself too crazy. You end up doing this (on top of swapping props or adjusting pitch):

Hmm, what spacers to choose...
View attachment 33108

Hmm, how much to bore the venturi...
View attachment 33107

FYI, my impellers with 14/20 pitch are actually just a touch too much. Thought about getting a different nose cone or something but want to adjust it slightly from side to side. Remember, one side is always going to be getting a bit more load to it than the other so it needs to be pitched down. Ideally, I would probably have one at 14/19.5 and the other at 14/19. That's splitting hairs and is not easy to do unless you talk to a company such as Impros or the like with custom bending tools.
I have tried bending both my stock and aftermarket impellers and believe me, it's NOT easy at ALL.
My stock ones were REALLY bent up as well so I just replaced them. Not able to compare them but I have typically ran as one of the fastest mr-1 HO boats that I know of. I have hit 52 with very light load but till knock on the 50 mph mark regularly. You have to remember that I just installed a tower, speakers, another amp, and have 3 kids now as well. I'm guessing the extra ballast isn't going to help my numbers.

 

[Speedling]

I have a 2005 ar230 and I think it is still on the original impellers. I think this is going to be a spring project. I am following this closely to help in what I want to get. Looking for maybe a little better hole shot. But once I put the boat in the water in the spring it does not come out of the water till fall. I need a set it and forget it set up.

If you don't have cavitation you can usually send them out to be tweaked and touched up a bit by someone such as Impros (sorry, it's the only company I remember off the top of my head). They can bring you to a 13/18 or 15/19 or something inbetween that will give you the holeshot you want.

 

[thcole]

I think the leading edge is getting chewed up and I am losing some speed. I know I will lose a lot leaving it in the water too.

 

[swatski]

I have a 2005 ar230 and I think it is still on the original impellers. I think this is going to be a spring project. I am following this closely to help in what I want to get. Looking for maybe a little better hole shot. But once I put the boat in the water in the spring it does not come out of the water till fall. I need a set it and forget it set up.

Depending which model of the 2005 AR230 you have your impellers will be $157.27 each, or a little more for the starboard.
http://www.powersportsparts4less.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=3869899&category=Boats&make=Yamaha&year=2005&fveh=175307

If I were you I would go with the factory impellers at that price, make sure you install them correct side, no second guessing your pitches. Yamaha put excellent stock impellers in these boats, turns out.