Truck Tow Vehicle

[BlkGS]

That's kind of my thing. Historically speaking we own vehicles wellllllll into the 100k+ mark. We drive A LOT! We road trip nearly everywhere as my wife doesn't like to fly, not to mention flying with 2 kids and even short trips you're spending $1500 on plane tickets. We generally do South West or East FL at least once a year, we also generally do several semi local trips (TN, VA, SC, adjoining state trips) a year as well. I've averaged ~15-20k a year on my F150 as it has been the travel car. We have determined with the expense of trucks whatever I get can't be the long term road trip vehicle. The jeep will likely be traded within a year for a Honda SUV of some nature and that will become the travel vehicle. However, I still probably drive around town and towing the boat all over NC 12-15k a year. So reliability and towing really are my top 2 requirements. I'd blast through a factory warranty in no time, and being without my truck for weeks would really suck. Right now not so much since it's cold, but during the boating season I'd be hella pissed.

I'd try to get the Nissan dealer to work you a deal on a Pathfinder and a titan as a combo deal.

Or you get a mid 00s Silverado and just rock that bad boy. Get one pre AFM and it'll run forever, especially with a trans cooler on it. You might have issues with some of the other fiddly bits, but it will always get your boat where it needs to go.

 

[suke]

Honestly.....I would do the math on a lease versus a buy. Even at 20k mi/yr the benefit of having something under warranty the entire time might outweigh any additional costs you would incur with a lease. Especially if you find a dealership that does loaner vehicles. It's one of the few benefits of owning an Audi and using dealership for maintenance, the loaner program is top notch and makes downtime essentially zero. This means paying a little more, and making it a constant/budgeable cost instead of a front loaded long term deal......BUT.....It could generate the "appliance truck" situation that you're looking for.

The thing with your mileage and a lease is that you'll want to play the price is right game with your estimate. You want to be fairly close, but just under what you actually drive. Buying miles up front is cheap, buying them on the back end is not.

In the end, it's all about total cost out of pocket over the course of multiple years. For you, the reliability of not disturbing your lifestyle might be worth the cost out of pocket.

Just a thought.

We've looked at leases and even with like 10k down at 20k miles a year they're looking at $800-1100 a month. Which is crazy to me. I've never had a car payment above $400. Which in today's market is damn near impossible even with a lot down. I'm not looking to have over $1k+ in car payments at a time.

 

[2kwik4u]

We've looked at leases and even with like 10k down at 20k miles a year they're looking at $800-1100 a month. Which is crazy to me. I've never had a car payment above $400. Which in today's market is damn near impossible even with a lot down. I'm not looking to have over $1k+ in car payments at a time.

Yea, that's gonna be hard in the land of $40k used trucks and $60k new ones.

Never put any money down on a lease. If the car is totalled, you never get that cash back, and if you turn it back in, you don't reduce your payment enough to justify the loss or opportunity cost. I get the cash flow management side, but that's a tight edge case to justify.

I'm sitting at $1,300/no for two cars now. I agree, we're not doing this again. We make really good money and it still feels absurd. I look at a new vehicle at $65k, and $1,100/mo for just that vehicle just feels absurd. I know it's where we're at in the economy, but oof it hurts my soul.

 

[BlkGS]

Yea, that's gonna be hard in the land of $40k used trucks and $60k new ones.

Never put any money down on a lease. If the car is totalled, you never get that cash back, and if you turn it back in, you don't reduce your payment enough to justify the loss or opportunity cost. I get the cash flow management side, but that's a tight edge case to justify.

I'm sitting at $1,300/no for two cars now. I agree, we're not doing this again. We make really good money and it still feels absurd. I look at a new vehicle at $65k, and $1,100/mo for just that vehicle just feels absurd. I know it's where we're at in the economy, but oof it hurts my soul.

We are at about 1300/no for two cars as well. As much as I hate it, unless we have only one payment (and even then...) we will never be lower than this again. It's currency devaluation, nothing more. Your dollar has less value in it because we printed another couple trillion of them for whatever reason.

It's only gonna get worse from here.

 

[zpaul]

Now that is a proper Tow Truck

 

[suke]

We are at about 1300/no for two cars as well. As much as I hate it, unless we have only one payment (and even then...) we will never be lower than this again. It's currency devaluation, nothing more. Your dollar has less value in it because we printed another couple trillion of them for whatever reason.

It's only gonna get worse from here.

I've always tried to only have one car payment at a time. Which generally means we kept cars for 8-10 years on average. Which you can't really do now a days unless it's a Honda or Toyota.....even with lower miles. Our Jeep has been a pain in the ass and has been the most babied wrangler on the planet. Don't even think we've used 4wd in it, change the oil every 5k miles with full synthetic oil, trans/power steering is changed every 36k, and same with brake fluid. Has 85k and we've spent more in repairs on that thing than we did any of our Hondas we've ever owned combined. I've had many jeeps, but this will be our last. My F150 while nothing has broken to where it has left me having a shop fix it has a whole host of problems at 97k. Crazy how things just don't last like they used to, even if you've taken insane care of them. Maybe the Titan with it's old school V8 and no fancy active fuel management or cylinder deactivation, or turbos will be the ticket. Guess we'll see. I have found some XL F150's in my price range with the V8, but man an XL is straight up work truck spec. I'm not sure I can go THAT low of trim......

 

[BlkGS]

Yeah, part of me thinks there's never gonna be more reliable vehicles than mid 2000s trucks lol.

Our Expedition hasnt had any issues that were like... Real bad... But like, annoyances that I wanted fixed.

 

[Acard7]

I’ve been fairly happy with my 2016 Ram 2500 diesel (knock on wood), just paid it off a few months ago so our car payments went from $1100/mo to $650 (wife’s 21 Jeep GC L). Bought the truck before covid prices spiked everything, thank god. Going on 3.5 years owning it, only have done maintenance things like oil, oil filters, fuel filters, fuel additive for winter, and a CCV filter. Driven it almost 50k miles since purchasing, only long distance pulling it does is the boat, which is hardly a task for it. I will say, I bought it deleted as well, so no DEF and emission BS to deal with. I know eventually I will probably have to put a transmission in it, but so far at 168k miles it’s going strong.

I’ll have to drive this truck for over 500k miles before I could ever buy another diesel truck.

 

[2kwik4u]

Yeah, part of me thinks there's never gonna be more reliable vehicles than mid 2000s trucks lol.

Our Expedition hasnt had any issues that were like... Real bad... But like, annoyances that I wanted fixed.

Had a '03 Yukon that I drove to 180k before trading it away on a Ford Focus (Gas was $4/gal back in '11 and I was driving a lot). I think I put intake gaskets, A/C compressor, and an Alternator on that. Then a small "smattering" of little parts (window regulator, blower resistor pack, etc) on it for the ~150k I drove that vehicle. Thing was a tank and just always ran. No cylinder deactivation, no start/stop, 4spd transmission, just not much to really go wrong with it.

Dad's '02 Silverado is over 190k now. Friend at the office has been daily driving it for the last two months. Changed the oil, and put a battery in it, but otherwise it's just plugging along for him.

Honestly, the most durable vehicle I've witnessed was my buddies '96 Tahoe. That thing was beat to absolute dammit, but ALWAYS ran. His live in girlfriend once drove it a week and a half with the "check engine light" on. He finally got around the checking it.....it was the "Check gauges" light. She had been driving it without any coolant for a week and a half. He fixed the leak, refilled it, and drove it another 120k miles before that engine gave out at almost 300k miles. Now, the poor old Vortec SBC 350 might have made 200hp at best, and got like 11mpg, but it was just this side of bombproof.

Makes me wonder how much reliability we're giving up for a few mpg here and there.

 

[BlkGS]

We have traded SO MUCH reliability for performance, efficiency, and emissions. Engines are tighter tolerances, tighter packaged, running hotter, more sensors that fail, etc.

Growing up my neighbor's dad had a 5.7 vortex like that. Literally beat it like a dog, it only ever had one oil change that he and I did, and it lived it's whole life pulling a big box trailer, and it just kept taking a beating without issue. Last time I went down to my old hood that SOB was still parked out on the street where it always was, still driving 25+ years of abuse later. And if anything ever broke on it, the parts would be like 33 cents to fix it.

The old Lexus/Toyota 4.7L V8 was a beast too. My supervisor at my first big boy job had one in a Tundra, he put like 270k miles on it and that truck looked and ran like it was brand new. I literally didn't believe him when he told me that. The only issue he ever had with it was a few of the bolts in the bed started corroding, so he replaced those. I assume he did preventative maintenance items like spark plugs, but no idea if he ever had to replace coils or water pumps or anything. He gave it to his nephew and last I heard it was over 300k and still running like a champ.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I grew up in the 70’s, and got my permit a couple of days after my 16th birthday (Jan ‘76), and my license two weeks later. At the time, some cars seem to run forever, but you generally planned on 100k miles as the expected life of the motor and the transmission. Cars and trucks are just so much better today, even if they are more complicated. Rustproofing also sucked at the time, and with the used of road salt, many cars looked like shit after 10 years. The upside of simple engines is that many of my high school friends had second and third hand muscle cars with engines they often rebuilt.

Jim

 

[2kwik4u]

The old Lexus/Toyota 4.7L V8 was a beast too. My supervisor at my first big boy job had one in a Tundra, he put like 270k miles on it and that truck looked and ran like it was brand new. I literally didn't believe him when he told me that. The only issue he ever had with it was a few of the bolts in the bed started corroding, so he replaced those. I assume he did preventative maintenance items like spark plugs, but no idea if he ever had to replace coils or water pumps or anything. He gave it to his nephew and last I heard it was over 300k and still running like a champ.

Just read an article this morning about the million mile Tundra that Toyota bought back from the customer. Had the same 4.7L V8 in it. Horrible fuel mileage, but only needed oil changes and some accessories over it's lifetime. Interestingly enough, the owner was a 6'6" tall 425 person, and the seats showed little/no signs of wear. Guy was a delivery driver for an oil and gas company. Beat the dammit out of the bed in that truck, but otherwise just normal maintenance stuff, putting an average of 125k miles a year on that truck.

Of course, that was followed by an article by "The Autopian" (Where David Tracey from Jalopnik landed/created) that basically used the Lexus LX/Tundra V8 as an example to prove his misguided and obtuse point that anything with a timing belt should be considered unreliable because replacing a timing belt was a repair and not scheduled maintenance. Dude used to write good articles, he's jumped the shark for me now though.

 

[suke]

Without a doubt we've given up reliability for performance and gas mileage. Companies have had no choice to try and meet EPA regulations.

 

[BlkGS]

Just read an article this morning about the million mile Tundra that Toyota bought back from the customer. Had the same 4.7L V8 in it. Horrible fuel mileage, but only needed oil changes and some accessories over it's lifetime. Interestingly enough, the owner was a 6'6" tall 425 person, and the seats showed little/no signs of wear. Guy was a delivery driver for an oil and gas company. Beat the dammit out of the bed in that truck, but otherwise just normal maintenance stuff, putting an average of 125k miles a year on that truck.

Of course, that was followed by an article by "The Autopian" (Where David Tracey from Jalopnik landed/created) that basically used the Lexus LX/Tundra V8 as an example to prove his misguided and obtuse point that anything with a timing belt should be considered unreliable because replacing a timing belt was a repair and not scheduled maintenance. Dude used to write good articles, he's jumped the shark for me now though.

I think that 4.7L is aircraft rated. It might be the 4.0L V8 that preceded it. Maybe it's both.

I am ambivalent in the timing belt vs chain argument. Honda J35 timing belts were a 100k mile change, but they'd run forever if you did that. Kind of a pain since it was a transverse V6. Chevy small blocks are timing chains and also pretty much run forever.

Timing belts are a wear item that you replace over the life of the motor. Timing chains are a lifetime item, that sets the lifetime of the motor. It seems to me that timing chain indestructiblility is the exception, not the rule. Lots of import V8s and V6s with timing chain failures that grenade the motors. Probably even more of them with timing chain guide failures.

The auto mag industry is doomed. It's full of dorks that want to think their opinion counts for something when reality is, the medium has moved to YouTube. If people want to see how good a car is, they look for YouTube videos on them. All these opinions pieces they ramble on about are just them in their little echo chambers.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Just read an article this morning about the million mile Tundra that Toyota bought back from the customer. Had the same 4.7L V8 in it. Horrible fuel mileage, but only needed oil changes and some accessories over it's lifetime. Interestingly enough, the owner was a 6'6" tall 425 person, and the seats showed little/no signs of wear. Guy was a delivery driver for an oil and gas company. Beat the dammit out of the bed in that truck, but otherwise just normal maintenance stuff, putting an average of 125k miles a year on that truck.

Of course, that was followed by an article by "The Autopian" (Where David Tracey from Jalopnik landed/created) that basically used the Lexus LX/Tundra V8 as an example to prove his misguided and obtuse point that anything with a timing belt should be considered unreliable because replacing a timing belt was a repair and not scheduled maintenance. Dude used to write good articles, he's jumped the shark for me now though.

Totally an idiot! Timing belt replacement was planned maintenance, no big deal. Hell, even I know this and my car knowledge is somewhat limited, although I am an old fart.

Jim

 

[Ohio]

Just read an article this morning about the million mile Tundra that Toyota bought back from the customer. Had the same 4.7L V8 in it. Horrible fuel mileage, but only needed oil changes and some accessories over it's lifetime. Interestingly enough, the owner was a 6'6" tall 425 person, and the seats showed little/no signs of wear. Guy was a delivery driver for an oil and gas company. Beat the dammit out of the bed in that truck, but otherwise just normal maintenance stuff, putting an average of 125k miles a year on that truck.

Of course, that was followed by an article by "The Autopian" (Where David Tracey from Jalopnik landed/created) that basically used the Lexus LX/Tundra V8 as an example to prove his misguided and obtuse point that anything with a timing belt should be considered unreliable because replacing a timing belt was a repair and not scheduled maintenance. Dude used to write good articles, he's jumped the shark for me now though.

Yeah, have had several Honda V6s, change the belt and water pump around 100K, drive them to about 250,000 miles and sell them. Rinse and repeat.

 

[2kwik4u]

Rock steady realibility is what I need. I can give up nearly everything else, BUT I will say the tech is comparable to the F150. Especially if you get the package that has remote start. The pro4x has nearly all the bells and whistles and many my truck doesn't even have. I need a truck that can tow the boat, and not cost me thousands to fix before 100k miles. That warranty has me suspect. I know very little about it, is it a full warranty? Electronics, drivetrain, interior, etc? Or is it just powertrain? I had a powertrain warranty until 100k miles, but it was "limited" and really didn't cover crap. Ford was smart they knew all the things that are likely going to cause problems and excluded those.

So my requirements are this in this order:
1. Reliability
2. Can tow the boat without struggling or running at redline all the time
3. Android Auto (the 2021 Titans look like I could even replace the head unit without much fuss, so could be a moot point)
4. Remote start
5. App connectivity for remote start would be a nice to have, but dang do I like it on my F150

Thread distraction incoming. I went and googled up the Titan Warranty brochure. Lots of reading if your interested.

Titan Warranty Brochure



The "Not covered" section is an interesting read if you're into that sort of thing. Nothing explicitly listed as not covered, however lots of "if you don't maintain it, we won't cover it" language. Interesting approach to that.

Warranty is transferable so long as the original owner doesn't trade it away within 12mo of initial purchase, and they don't register it outside the US. I would guess most "used" Titans will be covered for the second owner. Makes them a pretty good value, as I'm seeing P4X trucks into the mid/low $40k range locally

Here's a '21 P4X for $40k locally. Still has ~24mo and ~80k mi of coverage left, and looks to be in really good condition.

Still think this is likely the best warranty you'll find on a new/used pickup.

 

[BlkGS]

Honestly, it's kinda surprising that Titan doesn't sell better. Part of me thinks it's because they don't have enough width in the trims. If you want something like cooled seats (a must in FL), you're stuck with pro4x or Platinum. Platinum forces you into a brown interior and a buncha chrome. So if you're not old, you're forced into a Pro4X, which forces you into a bit of a lift, with extra floaty suspension. If you want a blacked out truck, you have to get the SL Midnight, which doesn't offer cooled seats.

It's a great truck, but only if you fit into the narrow segments Nissan marketing decided exist. Guys like me who want a blacked out, loaded out, not lifted truck just don't exist.

That said, a used (maybe even new) platinum and a bunch of cosmetic mods and a redone interior is probably still cheaper than a competitor truck, lol.

 

[2kwik4u]

Honestly, it's kinda surprising that Titan doesn't sell better. Part of me thinks it's because they don't have enough width in the trims. If you want something like cooled seats (a must in FL), you're stuck with pro4x or Platinum. Platinum forces you into a brown interior and a buncha chrome. So if you're not old, you're forced into a Pro4X, which forces you into a bit of a lift, with extra floaty suspension. If you want a blacked out truck, you have to get the SL Midnight, which doesn't offer cooled seats.

It's a great truck, but only if you fit into the narrow segments Nissan marketing decided exist. Guys like me who want a blacked out, loaded out, not lifted truck just don't exist.

That said, a used (maybe even new) platinum and a bunch of cosmetic mods and a redone interior is probably still cheaper than a competitor truck, lol.

I think it's two fold. Maybe 3 fold.

Part of it is the FS truck segment buys on emotion as much as logic. "I buy a Ford because that's what my daddy bought" is as much a valid reason for the average truck buyer as any level of spec/price/value comparison.
Part of it is poor marketing. When was the last time you saw an ad for a Titan? Even BEFORE they released that '24 was the last year for them?
Part of it is the narrow window for trim packages. I'm sure your scenario isn't the only one on this front.

If I wasn't in the middle of a semi-cross country move, I would already be out there buying/looking. Just had to plunk down $7k to start a lease for the new house. This moving shit is expensive, and putting a serious dent in my current cashflow.

 

[suke]

Thread distraction incoming. I went and googled up the Titan Warranty brochure. Lots of reading if your interested.

Titan Warranty Brochure

View attachment 215863

The "Not covered" section is an interesting read if you're into that sort of thing. Nothing explicitly listed as not covered, however lots of "if you don't maintain it, we won't cover it" language. Interesting approach to that.

Warranty is transferable so long as the original owner doesn't trade it away within 12mo of initial purchase, and they don't register it outside the US. I would guess most "used" Titans will be covered for the second owner. Makes them a pretty good value, as I'm seeing P4X trucks into the mid/low $40k range locally

Here's a '21 P4X for $40k locally. Still has ~24mo and ~80k mi of coverage left, and looks to be in really good condition.

Still think this is likely the best warranty you'll find on a new/used pickup.

I think most brands have a similar clause for maintenance. So that really doesn't scare me too much. About a year ago I joined every Titan FB group I could find. I'm on an equivalent amount of F150 ecoboost groups. The amount of complaints are probably 4:1 in favor of F150 complaints. Most of the issues I've seen on the Titan groups are "I have XXX problem". Then people are like ok, what model and mileage. Then the person says oh it's a whatever model with 370k miles on it. It's like oh, ok, of course you need to replace your rusted out exhaust manifold. Don't see too many people complain of problems with low mileage or newer Titans. Which you see quite frequently on the F150 groups. Granted they sell like 4x the amount of F150s, so that could be part of it too.

Not that I wanna go this old, but look at this! https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=carGurusHomePageModel&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d251&zip=27540#listing=376684886/NONE/DEFAULT