Hard (re)starting list-side engine (ballasted AR240, wake surfing)

[CDENsomnia]

There are a few posts on the forum about people having this same condition without being listed or ballasted at all. My first season with my AR240 I had it happen a lot. Someone asked if I was running the blowers enough...so I changed my practice of having the blowers running pretty much constantly unless we are just coving out. It takes some battery capacity but it completely solved my problems. I use standard NGK spark plugs every year so I didn't change anything having to do with them. When I have the boat listed over for surfing I do smell a bit more fuel smell but like someone else mentioned the engines are working pretty hard especially the engine on the surf side. If you aren't worried too much about your batteries I would suggest running the blowers as much as you can. I now make it a practice to turn them on and leave them on while we are running, prepping surfers, etc. Knock on wood I don't think I have had a starting problem this season and we have put a ton of hours on the engines this year.

 

[Mainah]

My guess as to why such a small increase in back pressure makes such a big difference is the waterbox. More specifically the amount of airspace and back pressure at the top of the box when normally ballasted vs. when ballasted for surfing. The additonal water voulme being forced into a confined space like the waterbox is bound to have an impact.

A water tight manual waste gate plumbed to outlet above the water line would likely fix this issue IMO.

 

[swatski]

My guess as to why such a small increase in back pressure makes such a big difference is the waterbox. More specifically the amount of airspace and back pressure at the top of the box when normally ballasted vs. when ballasted for surfing. The additonal water voulme being forced into a confined space like the waterbox is bound to have an impact.

A water tight manual waste gate plumbed to outlet above the water line would likely fix this issue IMO.

This (@0627Devildog trick) may be the simplest solution, for now. With no extra mods.

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

I was looking for this thread so I could post my results when trying this. . . . . On my last outing we made a couple solid passes while surfing and turned off the engines to set up for the next surfer. Had a hard time restarting the port engine and remembered this thread and Jeff's suggestion above.

I started the Starboard Engine and came up to about 8mph.
Turned Hard to Starboard until I noticed the Port side lift.
Turned the Port ignition and viola!
We had instant ignition.

Made another 15-20 mins of runs and turned it off to attempt to replicate. Again, had hard start on Port Side. . . . until I repeated the process above.

While it may possibly be ENTIRELY coincidence, it worked twice in a row. So for all you surfers out there with hard start issues while ballasted and listing, make sure to try this before burning out your starter. Please come back and post your findings along with your setup.

Here is my general setup for reference:

250 Human Ballast
100 (ish) lbs of gear
400 Ski Locker
750 Under Port Seat
Dual Group 27 Batteries under port seat
400 Under Starboard Seat
800 Port side of Swim Platform
Port Side Wake Wedge

 

[0627Devildog]

This (@0627Devildog trick)

For the record, this is a @Cobra Jet Steering LLC trick. . . . . I just tried it and posted about it first.

 

[KXCam22]

0627Devildog,
What weight are you running. I am at 2200 + 800 aux on the platform, but listed to starboard. On the 230 my rail is not underwater. I don't have any starting issues that I have noticed. Yet. Cam.

 

[0627Devildog]

0627Devildog,
What weight are you running. I am at 2200 + 800 aux on the platform, but listed to starboard. On the 230 my rail is not underwater. I don't have any starting issues that I have noticed. Yet. Cam.

Here is my general setup for reference:

250 Human Ballast
100 (ish) lbs of gear
400 Ski Locker
750 Under Port Seat
Dual Group 27 Batteries under port seat
400 Under Starboard Seat
800 Port side of Swim Platform
Port Side Wake Wedge

 

[Scottintexas]

Cam,
it could be a mr1 vs 1.8 issue or maybe that our classic models the swim deck is a few inches higher in the water than newer models (not sure if the correlates to jet pumps/water box levels)

I am going with 1,200 in cabin rear and 400 on swim deck all surf side and it seams my rear cleat can be at water level, I'll try to get pictures next time out,

 

[Addicted]

I have had this issue since new, yet I see it on both engines not just the 'low' side. It does not happen often, and almost always while surfing. As said above, there has been discussion about this over the years and at one point it was thought to be the heat buildup in the engine compartment so the suggestion was made to run the blowers. That has been my practice for a couple years now. When surfing I run the blowers the entire time and this has significantly reduced the frequency of my hard starting.

The first year with my boat I was concerned but my boat has always started with 3 or 4 attempts and with the frequency that I am seeing this happen at this point (with blowers on) it is only a small inconvenience. With the fact that my issue does not follow the 'low' engine, I do not think it is a back pressure issue, at least in my case.

 

[Spooling]

I've seen this hard to start issue mentioned a few times in different forums. It doesn't seem to be exclusive to boats with ballasts, as it's been seen by people with SX190's and Waverunners as well.

To me it seems to be a tuning/ems issue with hot starts. Probably some sort of heat soak issue.

 

[jcsmith77]

I am so relieved to find this thread, mostly to know that i am not alone. I posted about this problem last year and we didn't get to this level of detail or possible solution. I obviously have not been spending enough time on the forums lately. I have this exact problem. Hard start after surfing, shutting boat off and list side engine, usually port is ridiculously hard to start after a longer set time. If you just shut off and start back up, no issue. I definitely smell gas when i am cranking to get it fired back up. I am going to try the move and turn next time to see if i can get it fired easier. Did anyone proceed with a plug change and have any affect?

 

[KXCam22]

I have iridiums and no starting issues, but that could be a complete coincidence. Good tip about running the blower while surfing. Cam.

 

[Bill D]

This issue popped up and bit me last weekend. I've never had a problem before, but I also have never shut off the boat while surfing for as long as we did Saturday.

Boat was set up with 800 lbs on rear port seat, 540 on swim deck, 540 on cabin floor and around 500 lbs of human ballast.

We started our first run, ran for a little bit, and stopped to re-secure the bag on the swimdeck. After being stopped for about 15 minutes or so, the port engine would not restart. Tried three or so starts with no success. Starboard engine started right away and ran fine, but I never could get the port to fire. Tried shifting all the human ballast to the starboard, no luck. Tried accelerating to 8-9 mph, no luck. Ran the blower for a while, no luck. Left @haknslash floating in the lake, no luck... The only thing I didn't try was going in a circle to starboard. We may have had enough people ballast to make that work.

In the end we dumped all the ballast and got it to start. But, even after dumping all of the ballast, it took a few seconds of cranking, and then died on the first attempt. On the next attempt, it started, and ran really rough for a few seconds before settling in.

When we tried to start it with full ballast, there was a definitive fuel smell coming from the rear of the boat. After about the fourth attempt to crank the engine I was getting a low batt warning, so that may have had something to do with it. The parallel switch was under 800lbs of water. When we finally got it running there was a strong fuel smell and it took maybe 15 seconds to clear before the engine started running normally.

The whole experience really sucked and was about the first time I have really been disappointed in my boat.

 

[buckbuck]

Did you leave @haknslash floating in the lake with snakes?

 

[ar240owner]

If I run my blower while we are surfing , it always starts up , if I don't it struggles once in a while

 

[0627Devildog]

The only thing I didn't try was going in a circle to starboard.

This has worked for me each of the three times I have tried it.

 

[haknslash]

Did you leave @haknslash floating in the lake with snakes?

I was too busy looking for gator eye balls on the water surface

BTW is that a Yamaha @ 1:45??!!

On a more serious note the circle trick seems like a good idea to try. Hopefully we won't run into the issue again. It was a first for us. I think I got high as a kite from all the gas fumes while in the water trying to troubleshoot and then when @Bill D told me to hang tight in the middle of the lake I was second guessing if he really said that at first or if it was the fumes talking . Also not to take anything away from Bill's unfortunate bad luck of the engine issue and bag falling off, but on that run it was the freakin' closest I've ever been to going ropeless but the damn bag started to fall off! It WAS going to happen on that run I could feel it!! Figures!!

 

[Bill D]

No charge for the fumes @haknslash.

 

[Bill D]

@buckbuck I think I learned that move from one of your daughters when she got in to shallow water.

 

[Cambo]

My theory on what the issue is

At some point with that much ballast on the boat the engines will be below the water line and I think small amounts of water are back filling and getting into the cylinders. The wet plugs are not letting the plugs fire and the fuel pumps are dumping gas into the cylinders its not being burned and is pushed out the exhaust. An easy way to check is pull the plugs and see if they are wet also has anyone had any traces of water in the oil? it would show up on the dipstick cap as milky deposits.

 

[0627Devildog]

My theory on what the issue is

At some point with that much ballast on the boat the engines will be below the water line and I think small amounts of water are back filling and getting into the cylinders. The wet plugs are not letting the plugs fire and the fuel pumps are dumping gas into the cylinders its not being burned and is pushed out the exhaust. An easy way to check is pull the plugs and see if they are wet also has anyone had any traces of water in the oil? it would show up on the dipstick cap as milky deposits.

I have not had any evidence of water infiltration into the oil. . . . and I surf religiously.