2018 Yamaha Limited S E Audio upgrade

[Mainah]

This is what you will see inside it. Those knobs is where the magic begins. But PLEASE PLEASE don't attempt this without proper guidance from a pro or you will void your warranty thru WS.

I like that a lot. I may have to find a budget for this now. Is that board conformal coated at all? I have the proper equipment to run a tone or sample on the input and test the ouput as I adjust. How much volatge variance did you add with the adjustment? Did you tone generate or sample? Lastly do those 8 pin chips above the knobs have any writing on them?

 

[swatski]

I like that a lot. I may have to find a budget for this now. Is that board conformal coated at all? I have the proper equipment to run a tone or sample on the input and test the ouput as I adjust. How much volatge variance did you add with the adjustment? Did you tone generate or sample? Lastly do those 8 pin chips above the knobs have any writing on them?

@Mainah No idea what you're talking about but I will pay to "supercharge" with mine!

LOL. The thing is, though, there really is no other equalizer like the WS420 - with talk-back function (which automatically switches the tower zone to mic, voice activated). Kind of strange.
The non BT version (which we don't need anyway) is fairly inexpensive and can be had at a bargain I think. Just saying!

--

 

[Mainah]

This is possibly something you can do yourself once someone figures out where to set those potentiometers for the polk head unit we have in common and depending on the line level voltage your amp will accept before clipping. This may not help much or it may help a lot. The issue is the starting signal from the polk head unit. If a cleaner signal can be had at a lower level from headunit and the components in the ws420 are of higher quality then you get less noise across the bandwidth and an optimum input signal into the amps.

 

[Lion]

This is what you will see inside it. Those knobs is where the magic begins. But PLEASE PLEASE don't attempt this without proper guidance from a pro or you will void your warranty thru WS.

Definitely would never try anything like that on my own.... way above my head....lol
But like Swatski, I like the idea of knobs instead of having to get into the connext.

 

[Lion]

@Lion ...you first need to decide what you are looking for in a system. Great sound at all volumes, listening at rope length, listening on the swim deck, or owning the cove (sandbar in my case). Let is be said that the JL Audio "HD” line of amps is pretty much the pinnacle of marine performance when properly applied. I personally run Wet Sounds SD amps which are also top of the line, efficient and vert powerful. However, I also know that these are out of budget and overkill for a large percentage of folks. Truth is, when properly set up, good marine mid-level amps are going to satisfy most. My first setup had three marine Rockford prime amps and it sounded outstanding. My first advise would be don't skimp on your interior speakers and your wiring. Make sure you run a large enough power wire to allow for expansion. Also, depending on your listening style, figure out what you think you'll need in batteries and get that stuff squared away first. On the subject of combining Rev 10's and Rev 8's....don't do it. The 10's not only sound better, bit make sound more efficiently. Go with the same whether it's 2 or 4. There are so many options when it comes to using channels on particular amps...just remember...REV speaker need lots of power. I'd say an absolute minimum of 250 clean watts (300 and up would be better). I run a two channel SD2 to my four REV 10's for around 310 watts each. Maybe an SD6 could work for your in boats and sub? 4 channels would be on the 8 speakers at 2 ohm stereo and the last two channels bridged for 585 watts to your sub? Possibilities are endless. Not sure where you boat, but if it's on a lake, some people get away with not using Marine amplifiers. In that case you could look towards ARC audio. I've heard great things about their equipment, and I also understand they're similar in design to wetsounds.

Yes to listening at all volumes, yes to listening at rope length, yes to listening at swim deck, and absolutely yes to owning the sandbar.... lol
As for my budget, I don’t mind pay for great quality, I think my problem is that I want to get everything done at once and that’s where my problem is at.
I’m starting to learn a lot from everyone here, and one thing that sticks out is that I should really purchase things as I can little by little instead of all at once. That would allow me to get best equipment for the sound I am looking for.
I will be taking your advice on the Wetsounds Rev tower speakers. I will be keeping the tower speakers the same size. Will be going with 10”
Speaking of equipment, UPS just got here. My 8 Wetsound 650 just arrived... what timing....lol

 

[Lion]

Here they are

 

[Lion]

With a little research you should be able to line it up on your own. A few things you need to note: the ohm load of the speakers, and the RMS rating. Also it is important to note that if you pair two speakers together, the ohm load will drop in half.

With that in mind, you should then find the amplifier that matches the RMS in the speakers. For example if an amp says 100x6 @ 4 ohms, and your speakers have a RMS rating of 100 then you can run 6 speakers off that amp perfectly. Or if the speakers have a rating of 75watts and the amplifer does 150x6 @ 2 ohms, then you can pair two speakers to each channel (dropping the load to 2) and run 12 speakers. OR in the opposite manner, if your speakers are 200 RMS, you can bridge the channels and run 3 speakers at 200 each @ 4 ohms. It can get a little tricky, but a little research and you should be able to make a solid plan. Also remember too much power is never a bad thing, under-powering is where most people run into issues.

Thanks for the info. This is the type of stuff that I had no idea how it works.
Now I’m getting it....lol
Usually I’m the guy that says..... top of the line..... put it in.
But as I get older, I want to learn and understand more.
With help from you all, I’m learning...and I’m very greatful

 

[Lion]

Finally finished my new Amp board

Damn, now that looks sweet...
lots of power there!

 

[FloJet]

I like that a lot. I may have to find a budget for this now. Is that board conformal coated at all? I have the proper equipment to run a tone or sample on the input and test the ouput as I adjust. How much volatge variance did you add with the adjustment? Did you tone generate or sample? Lastly do those 8 pin chips above the knobs have any writing on them?

Haha thanks. I used dolphin grey kingboard/starboard. I was impressed with the quality of it and fairly easy to work with. A 27" x 27" sheet cost me approx. $100 with shipping I believe so it was rather costly just for a board. But I think the benefits of it as it can help transfer heat away from the amps in theory I suppose.
The voltage variance will be dependent on what your music source is coming from. Too much variables and variances. For instance, I use nothing but Bluetooth to play my music. Some use USB while others use the Aux. Bluetooth gives my system the highest volume without distortion. The key is to test when your system clips. I tested everything with an SMD tuner and Oscilloscope from my friend. Started out with the Polk radio then fine tuned the WS. I used 1k, 4k and 40k hz test tones for all this. I was not able to see voltage until I got to the amps due to signals coming from the RCA cables. But even with that the 2 digital tools did all the work for me. I just played around in every way I could to see the results per my action. I had the knobs turned up fully once just to see how things operated and that was not a wise idea. I have it adjusted pretty well now that my amps only are turned up very very slightly from the down position.
But I would never recommend this to anyone and hope no one attempts this without proper guidance.

Disclaimer I am not responsible for any equipment failure. I have destroyed numerous of speakers, subs doing this. But I have also spent over 100 hours tuning my system to find the right spot. So this can get lengthy and tenacious. YOU ARE BASICALLY PUTTING THE SYSTEM ON STEROIDS.
All my life I have taken apart computers and electronics so it became a weird little hobby of mine and with experience you learn what you can and can't do. lol.

What do you mean by writing on the knobs @Mainah ? There are only 4 knobs you will need to mess with.

 

[FloJet]

Damn, now that looks sweet...
lots of power there!

Haha thank you. Not as much I originally wanted, but I very satisfied at the moment with it

 

[FloJet]

This is possibly something you can do yourself once someone figures out where to set those potentiometers for the polk head unit we have in common and depending on the line level voltage your amp will accept before clipping. This may not help much or it may help a lot. The issue is the starting signal from the polk head unit. If a cleaner signal can be had at a lower level from headunit and the components in the ws420 are of higher quality then you get less noise across the bandwidth and an optimum input signal into the amps.

You are right on here. That's I was shooting for. Less clipping from headunit, to less clipping from WS means more amp efficiency in the end.

 

[FloJet]

Yes to listening at all volumes, yes to listening at rope length, yes to listening at swim deck, and absolutely yes to owning the sandbar.... lol
As for my budget, I don’t mind pay for great quality, I think my problem is that I want to get everything done at once and that’s where my problem is at.
I’m starting to learn a lot from everyone here, and one thing that sticks out is that I should really purchase things as I can little by little instead of all at once. That would allow me to get best equipment for the sound I am looking for.
I will be taking your advice on the Wetsounds Rev tower speakers. I will be keeping the tower speakers the same size. Will be going with 10”
Speaking of equipment, UPS just got here. My 8 Wetsound 650 just arrived... what timing....lol

Better to start slow. I look at every thing like my reef tank at home. Go very slow for success. Gives you head room and time to always research.

 

[Lion]

Better to start slow. I look at every thing like my reef tank at home. Go very slow for success. Gives you head room and time to always research.

Lol, I have one of those also....actually just LRLS fish only...

 

[FloJet]

Lol, I have one of those also....actually just LRLS fish only...

Magnificent. Love yellow tangs.

 

[FloJet]

Had to start over on mine lol

 

[Lion]

Had to start over on mine lol

Sweet! Looks awesome

 

[adrianp89]

Not sure quite where the discussion lies but I will input this:

Every headunit clips, the goal is set your gains before that point. This is typically 2/3 or 3/4 of max volume, however you can use an o-scope if you want to be accurate (but the clipping points will still vary upon frequency).

With that being said, once set up correctly, it makes absolutey no difference in the end result. That is what the amp gain is for, to match the voltage from the head unit. The amplifier outputs the same power regardless of input voltage and overall effiency/amperage draw remains the same no matter what.

Line drivers are a complete waste of money. Sure you get a stronger input voltage but this only really helps when you have noise in the system (this is a problem with the install and a subject on it’s own). There is a reason some of the best sound quality head units out there only have a pre-amp voltage of 2v.

Basically, set everything up correctly and your solid.

 

[FloJet]

Not sure quite where the discussion lies but I will input this:

Every headunit clips, the goal is set your gains before that point. This is typically 2/3 or 3/4 of max volume, however you can use an o-scope if you want to be accurate (but the clipping points will still vary upon frequency).

With that being said, once set up correctly, it makes absolutey no difference in the end result. That is what the amp gain is for, to match the voltage from the head unit. The amplifier outputs the same power regardless of input voltage and overall effiency/amperage draw remains the same no matter what.

Line drivers are a complete waste of money. Sure you get a stronger input voltage but this only really helps when you have noise in the system (this is a problem with the install and a subject on it’s own). There is a reason some of the best sound quality head units out there only have a pre-amp voltage of 2v.

Basically, set everything up correctly and your solid.

"Every Headunit Clips"?
Very inaccurate statement. Ill leave it to that. I so want you to take a trip to my neck of the woods and hear systems out here.

 

[FloJet]

2/3 to 3/4 of the volume sounds like what amateurs do that do not know their true clipping point. For the connext it don't clip till 95 on subs 100 on highs. And that is digitally tested. So you refuting that?

So in this way you are pushing your amps too high because your head unit is not providing enough line voltage. This is why most amps clip. No way or buts about it. The higher you can take your radio's volume without clipping, the better its is for your amps. TRUE AND SIMPLE STATEMENT.

Come on man. Please don't try to discredit or argue everything. For 10 year of experience you don't know everything like I don't know everything. But I know better to debate unless pushed there. Way too may ways to skin a cat. But I do know I have the experience to run systems that cannot be touched.

 

[FloJet]

I suppose I'm only going to try to explain this to you once @adrianp89

If you have a liner driver like the WS set between the head unit and your amp, how do you get the correct voltage match on the HU without tweaking the WS? You CANNOT. In this you will turn your amp too high and it will over work itself.
If the amp is paired correctly with the component it's pushing too (wattage wise), and if you match voltage before it reaches the amp, there shouldn't be much of a voltage tweak to the amp. Most people turn their "GAINS" up because most radios have horrible line voltage. Hence their small wiring behind them. So if you can get the higher voltage to the amp which makes wattage, the amp works a lot less to compensate for the loss power to it.
It gets more technical then this but that's the gist.

Now amp gains are not gains. If you are using too much amp "GAIN" you have other problems upstream in the system.
That's why line drivers can be a great tools to use. Especially if you don't want to use any passive equalizers.
For the Connext system someone did a great job putting musicolics in mind. It has good line voltage to start out. Plus it can handle high volumes without clipping.
Now another technical part about all that is the source you use. The reason I use Bluetooth is I want the digital to analog conversion (DAC) of the music to be handle by the polk/connext system rather than my phone. Why? The built in DAC in the Polk has better DAC and that's why it don't distort at high volumes like others. Now if you use AUX, you will get distortion at lower volumes than me. Why? Because with AUX you are bypassing the radios DAC system and letting your phone do that conversion for you. Only one phone I know of might have better DAC system than a good dedicated radio for a system. Back in the days AUX was the best. But now with dedicated radios, kinda pointless letting your phone handle the conversion which most phones were not designed for that expect for 1 or 2 on the market right now. And I'm still skeptical of them.
Hope this all makes sense. Thanks for your insight and I will take your knowledge/expertise into considerations on future projects.