My take on Fins

[Jameson Clark]

One thing is, I really think people need to learn the way these boats drive for while without any enhancements. Once that is accomplished, the difference is noticeable and makes you a better captain. I feel I'm able to control my craft way better now even after adding the fins just because I operated it the first season without any enhancements.

I could not agree with this anymore! I bought my boat at the beginning of this season and because I am a gear head, I instantly wanted to start looking at upgrades and aftermarket add-ons. Once I started looking, I got really confused by the two different companies and what each did so I just decided to use the boat as-is first. Well, in that short amount of time, I have already discovered that for MY PERSONAL boating style, I want/need more control and precision when on plane. Unlike some others, the low speed handling didn't really bother me too much. But, the reverse is definitely another area I would like to improve. Coming from years with I/O's, I was a self proclaimed pro at docking and maneuvering my boat in any situation. I was simply never worried about getting in or out of anywhere and it was from my dad teaching me how to drive the boat PROPERLY from a very very young age.

So, after a half season of boating, and a good bit of reading I decided that the Cobras are the clear choice for me for my steering system. I am now trying to see if I want to add the Cobra's reverse system or the Lateral thrusters to improve reverse power and precision. Truly, backing the boat and maneuvering in tight areas was more of a learning curve for me. And, for someone who prided himself on how well he could do that, that is a tough pill to swallow! So, my research and questions will continue until I decide what reverse system seems to fit my needs better. If anyone here has any useful input or has used both systems, I would love your input. I am just trying to make the right decision for MY PERSONAL boating style.

 

[mdchachi]

Eventually I will also want to look into this subject. Right now I'm just hoping to make it up to 10 hours on the boat before it's time to winterize.

Hopefully by the time I'm ready to research this, there will a chart somewhere that lists the products, compatibility and what they do/don't do (good for wake sports, docking, reversing, etc.).
If would be great if it were cross-manufacturer but even within the Cobra line up it's not clear to me. For example, if you look at Yamaha boats you'll see a nice chart showing every model and what feature has or doesn't have. Very nice, quick and easy reference. I checked the cobra web page and there is a listing of six products for Yamahas and you need to read carefully through each product description to figure out what it is, if it's compatible with your boat, and how it compares to the other Cobra products.

 

[FLBulldogger]

Eventually I will also want to look into this subject. Right now I'm just hoping to make it up to 10 hours on the boat before it's time to winterize.

Hopefully by the time I'm ready to research this, there will a chart somewhere that lists the products, compatibility and what they do/don't do (good for wake sports, docking, reversing, etc.).
If would be great if it were cross-manufacturer but even within the Cobra line up it's not clear to me. For example, if you look at Yamaha boats you'll see a nice chart showing every model and what feature has or doesn't have. Very nice, quick and easy reference. I checked the cobra web page and there is a listing of six products for Yamahas and you need to read carefully through each product description to figure out what it is, if it's compatible with your boat, and how it compares to the other Cobra products.

@mdchachi when you get ready to buy all you have to do is email @Cobra Jet Steering LLC (Jeff) and he will walk you thru the best system for you, I know this to be a fact, he did it for me and others on the boards here, he's a great guy who cares about his product, stands behind them with a money back guarantee and will advise you on what you need, hell he even sent me bolts I didn't have for my install!

 

[swatski]

Eventually I will also want to look into this subject. Right now I'm just hoping to make it up to 10 hours on the boat before it's time to winterize.

Hopefully by the time I'm ready to research this, there will a chart somewhere that lists the products, compatibility and what they do/don't do (good for wake sports, docking, reversing, etc.).
If would be great if it were cross-manufacturer but even within the Cobra line up it's not clear to me. For example, if you look at Yamaha boats you'll see a nice chart showing every model and what feature has or doesn't have. Very nice, quick and easy reference. I checked the cobra web page and there is a listing of six products for Yamahas and you need to read carefully through each product description to figure out what it is, if it's compatible with your boat, and how it compares to the other Cobra products.

Yep. Choosing fins is a f@cking headache.

Here is my 0.02

If you are doing any kind of water sports with a 19fter, can't go wrong with the Ultimates, or whatever those are called now. Basically, fins down at speed (on plane). There is a world of difference. I don't care what naysayers are saying.
People love Vipers, which look like a great choice, too, but may not be ideal if wake surfing. IDK.

--

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

@mdchachi There you go, I do make a lot of different solutions to steering deficits on jet propelled watercraft. However one thing I do to try to help people decide is if I am home I personally answer the phone and ask you what it is you are trying to accomplish what boat you have how you use it what you intend to use it for in the future who drives it and what type of environment you use it in salt fresh deep shallow etc. Then I answer your questions. And a heads up I answer hello not a business phone so I usually hear a pause on the other end and I will ask if you want Jeff if they don't ask first. I get a lot of calls all times even when I am cooking dinner or watching tv. Also if you call and I am not here when I get home I look on the caller id and call all the numbers on it just so I don't miss any important calls because some people don't like talking to a answering machine myself included.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

ok a couple of pictures of the new Ultimate A K system with the new Mega fang plus system and a regular mega fang up to a mega fang plus showing the increased draw the new plus has compared to the original one

 

[FLBulldogger]

ok a couple of pictures of the new Ultimate A K system with the new Mega fang plus system and a regular mega fang up to a mega fang plus showing the increased draw the new plus has compared to the original one

Just ordered mine for my Viper NK's!Replacing the older mega fangs...

 

[Matts18]

Jeff, what exactly is meant by the phrase "power steering effect?" I have the Viper on my boat and really like the improvements at all speeds, especially the trim effect that seems to make the boat ride smoother through chop. However, I find the steering a bit heavier at speed which I would say is the opposite of what power steering would be like. My steering is just as loose when idling or going slow but stiffens up at speed. Again, I think it feels really good and I would not call it hard to turn by any means, but I don't understand the "power steering" reference. Can you clarify?

 

[Jameson Clark]

So, the Ultimate system is a flip up style, not a system that stays down?

 

[Jameson Clark]

The ultimate I believe can be setup either way and then is even adjustable for how much of the fins you want in the water. But I don't think it works with the AK models...You'll want the Venom Magnum AK.

He has it described as the new Ultimate AK system?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

So, the Ultimate system is a flip up style, not a system that stays down?

Oh my god no !

The Ultimate A K system is adjustable with numerous settings for all time steering, but it is also spring loaded so it can just flip up if it impacts anything just like the regular Ultimate steering I make, and it has the ability to set the actuator to raise the fins at speed so that only a small portion of the fin is in the water when the boat is on plane, I was not even going to add that feature but for the surf point it would be a good setting so I spent a lot of time redesigning the side force stabilizer to accommodate that function.
The actuator is the flat bar between the fins or in this system the inner bracket and the outer fin. The actuator can be set to ride under the water exiting the nozzle to hold the fin down at speed to whatever setting of influence you chose from fully deployed to partially deployed you get to tweak it just like the original ultimate system.

Or you set the actuator to lift the fins up to a predetermined setting so you still have some high speed influence and feedback but not like the fully deployed settings. So this is no one trick pony, you decide what it does or does not do and you can change it from time to time if your needs or style changes.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Yes this is the one I am doing for the A K boats with the second tie rod and cross compatible for mega fang plus or lateral thrusters this system will be $425 including the second tie rod setup , add the mega fang plus for $219.98 extra.

 

[MidnightRider]

Jeff, what exactly is meant by the phrase "power steering effect?" I have the Viper on my boat and really like the improvements at all speeds, especially the trim effect that seems to make the boat ride smoother through chop. However, I find the steering a bit heavier at speed which I would say is the opposite of what power steering would be like. My steering is just as loose when idling or going slow but stiffens up at speed. Again, I think it feels really good and I would not call it hard to turn by any means, but I don't understand the "power steering" reference. Can you clarify?

I'll take a crack at explaining this how I understand it. I did a quick crude drawing cause pic speaks a 1000 words for me.

In figure A you see just a fin, red is the water flow. As you can see most of the fin is behind the pivot point. This causes almost all the water force to push on the fin opposite of your steering (green arrow).

In figure B you see the fin and a "fang". As you can see the fang adds some surface area in front of the pivot point. This causes some water force to push on the fin still but also adds some water force on the "fang" giving added force in the same direction of your steering.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

@Matts18 Just noticed your question, when you add fins to a nozzle at speed these do have resistance so I added the fangs forward of the pivot point of the nozzle to use an old technology for canceling out some of the resistance added by the fins. I have tried to explain this effect using the tiller on ancient boats using the water pushing on the forward portion of the rudder that is in front of the pivot point. I am following the feedback on this and discovering some boats are experiencing more of the effect than others, And one of the reasons I lowered the mega fang position was to capture more of this force at speed to reduce the fin resistance even more.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

If you look at these pictures you see different amounts of forward rudder surfaces to ease up the resistance so I was applying this principal to the jet boat steering setup I just don't want to go too far with it. Also a little feedback in the steering wheel is a good thing because you are hooked up to the water with the steering fins deployed and you get a feel for what the boat is doing.

 

[Huntersales]

Jeff, I have Magnum AK w/Mega fangs. Would I get additional reverse control with the Mega fangs plus? And would I need to buy a whole kit for the plus? Thanks!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

First try to explain to me what reverse control increase you are looking for. With the mega fangs you should have pretty strong and predictable steering in reverse .

 

[Huntersales]

Nothing in particular, just more control is never a bad thing! lol My Ar240 does ok in reverse while turning but it could definitely be better.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

It will do that but if your boat is handling fine I really hate to see people just buying things because they are something new You are more than welcome to go for it if you wish. you have the bases already on the nozzles so it would be 169 for the mega fang plus setup. Remember these do more than just reverse

 

[Matts18]

Thanks Jeff and ttzz....this makes some sense!