Coronavirus

[Bruce]

@swatski, have you seen anything that documents the packaging capacity of Sars-Cov-2? If it is similar to that of lentivirus that would be very interesting.

 

[Bruce]

I have to give a big shout out to @Scottintexas. He had asked to send a contribution toward the materials for the shields that I am printing. He surprised me by covering all my expenses to date plus some!

Thank you Scott and family!

 

[Dean P]

One more thing about covid virus "manipulation", it can be confusing.

It is actually key to develop a vaccine. For example, several US labs currently work to generate a chimeric virus that appears identical to COVID-19 on the outside but contains the replication machinery of the livestock pathogen vesicular stomatitis virus (VSV) on the inside. That particular livestock pathogen does not cause disease in humans, and formed the basis for the Ebola vaccine in current use, and is therefore an appealing platform for a future Co-V2 vaccine.

Now - that's a man made virus.

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Do you know if all these labs/companies are working together or is this a race to see who gets there first?

 

[swatski]

@swatski, have you seen anything that documents the packaging capacity of Sars-Cov-2? If it is similar to that of lentivirus that would be very interesting.

I'm not a virologist, however the simple answer would be no, the SARS (like lenti) is an RNA virus but (unlike lenti) not a retrovirus, so it does not involve DNA in the replication cycle, while the lentiviruses are used as they can incorporate into both mitotically active and resting cells.

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[swatski]

Do you know if all these labs/companies are working together or is this a race to see who gets there first?

Some of those efforts are in NIH-funded academic labs and university-affiliated hospitals, other are commercial.
There is not much of a cohesive action, Fauci is getting old, and I don't even know how he can stand the treatment he receives. PArtly also that's why the anti-WHO and anti-Gates foundation rhetoric is so toxic.

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[haknslash]

This is sad. It truly is. I agree with these nurses that must go to work everyday without the proper PPE. "There's plenty of masks" I keep hearing; everyday F'n day. Doesn't this piss you off? Why can't they get them? Is there a shortage or is there a stockpile for the government (as Jared stated). I feel this whole thing was handled poorly. We should never be in this state of crisis we're in as nurses are now walking off the job. Who's fault is this?

When the ship is going down, is the captain the first one off and then directs from the sidelines? I think not...

PPE and other equipment is handled by the governor of each state IIRC.

 

[Dean P]

Some of those efforts are in NIH-funded academic labs and university-affiliated hospitals, other are commercial.
There is not much of a cohesive action, Fauci is getting old, and I don't even know how he can stand the treatment he receives. PArtly also that's why the anti-WHO and anti-Gates foundation rhetoric is so toxic.

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Wouldn't it make sense to all work together or at least share whats been done? I am a true believer of "A well defined problem is already half solved". If we could share what we already know with each other, we might find a vaccine quicker. Right? To me this is common sense. Again, greed/money is involved and mucking everything up. We are truly our own worst enemy.

 

[Dean P]

PPE and other equipment is handled by the governor of each state IIRC.

In times of crisis too?

 

[Bruce]

PPE and other equipment is handled by the governor of each state IIRC.

The biggest issues with PPE are lack of production capacity and a market that is hungry for it. I hope that we will learn the importance of producing more domestically. My state is flying PPE in from China.

 

[haknslash]

The biggest issues with PPE are lack of production capacity and a market that is hungry for it. I hope that we will learn the importance of producing more domestically. My state is flying PPE in from China.

Yes totally agree. Bring it back. Bring it ALL back! It would make our country so much stronger and be able to handle things that arise like this so much better. Problem is the fat cat CEO's are going to need to determine what is more important, a huge profit margin or a stronger domestic economy. Unfortunately a lot of them just like to get rich and don't truly care much for their workforce or what happens to the country. If their competitor sells a product cheap via outsourcing to Mexico, India or China then the other companies tend to follow suit just to stay competitive. Bringing things back yes will drive up the cost of products but I've said it several times I'm 100% ok with paying more if its made in the good ole USA. Just need a few of them to say screw it we are bringing it back and I think that would cause others to do the same if people stop buying China. I've been screaming for years at my work to bring stuff back but I'm just a little fish in a massive ocean of fat cats. In other words what I say doesn't amount to shit. It's dollar dollar bills y'all. Until their mindset changes then we are at the mercy of foreign dependence for EVERYTHING in this country. I'd rather help a fellow American get a job than see someone in India or China get the job. Problem for fat cat CEO's is that american is going to cost him more money to pay, provide insurance for which all eats into fat cat wallet and profit margin.

In times of crisis too?

Yes. Each state has it's own dynamics and resources. They know best what they need vs federal gov't in DC. The mayors consult with the governors and they allocate resources where its needed most. That is what we have been doing here. If they need more then they obtain it from federal surplus or from suppliers (overseas more than likely). The problem some hospitals run into is they did not have enough from the get-go so it puts them behind the ball and more at risk. There is also a supply chain issue which is mentioned above. Also worth mentioning is the supplies coming from overseas in some cases are not passing QA. Some countries have had to reject hundreds of thousands of PPE because of poor quality. There are also those people who are worst of the worst and bought up tons of PPE only to turn around to try to make a huge profit selling to hospitals around the world. Those folks are being arrested and prosecuted. There are other issues like ventilators, PPE and other resources that has expired at hopsitals. That happened here due to buying a lot of stuff during the last pandemic.

Why Alabama didn't have a ventilator stockpile when COVID-19 hit

Over a decade ago, Alabama purchased 80 ventilators. But they went bad and no money was ever allocated to replace them.

www.al.com

 

[BigN8]

Here's an interesting story. I have heard several things about this football season and after reading this story it really had me thinking. How much would I risk my health and the health of others I come in contact with for this sport?

Side note. I am a high school football official in TX. I also work in the Big12 replay command center as a replay technician. My Friday night position on my crew is an Umpire. I'm the guy that you see 7-9 yards from the line of scrimmage in the defense. I'm in close contact with all the players for 3.5 hours and I touch the ball every play. I also touch my whistle and put it in my mouth on every play. So, it really got me thinking. In the off chance they actually did resume football, and there is still no vaccine, and a second wave was imminent, would I consider doing this side gig??? My initial thought right now is No.

I have heard the likely scenario is the NCAA will start this seasons football schedule in the Spring. So the start would be roughly end of Jan. 2021. I would imagine HS would follow NCAA. Even with a late start of Jan. or Feb. 2021, would it still be wise to participate? I think No.

Why a Second Wave Could Be Even Worse for Sports

A new spike in coronavirus cases is the darkest shadow hanging over the future of sports, concerts and every kind of mass gathering that was commonplace before.

www.wsj.com

 

[haknslash]

^^ Yes I've gave that some thought too. Another thing about sports is how long are these universities going to continue to pay millions of dollars to these coaches? What about the nfl and pro sports paying their players, etc if nobody is in the stands? It could flip so much of the script! Sports is the last thing on my mind but I also know it is a job for many, many people. From the guy selling concessions, to the guy cleaning the toilets in stadiums, to the guys in the booth, tv broadcasters, coaches, trainers, the list goes on and on. It sucks all around.

 

[Dean P]

Until there is a vaccine, the next best things is to test. We need to be able to test everyone quickly. This would open the door to a lot.

 

[GTBRMC]

Regarding the big news of the leaked video overnight from part of the large remdesivir study by Gilead:

That U of Chicago uncontrolled study was part of a large (~2400 patients), multi-research-hospital study that Gilead has underway. It includes various types of sub-studies with different purposes.

The U of Chicago was not a controlled, double-blind, placebo study, those are underway elsewhere as part of the broader, coordinated study. Preliminary data are expected from those by the end of April. The U of Chicago study was designed to determine the better medication regime of two choices: shorter vs longer duration therapy (I believe it was 6 day course vs 10 day course). This *very preliminary* info is highly encouraging in a couple of ways:

1) this drug was originally developed for other purposes (I believe it was to fight ebola), so its major side effects risks are largely known

2) Gilead had enough confidence in the drug to test different treatments, indicating their *in vitro* testing showed positive results

3) The average length of time for the "severely ill" COVID-19 patients to move from start of med therapy to hospital discharge from hospital was ~6 days... in terms of better patient outcomes and more capacity to handle the pandemic, total cost, most other system-stressors... quicker time to successful treatment and discharge is nearly always better

4) the 113 successful discharges with 2 deaths out of 125 in study is *highly* encouraging as those in ICU have been looking at fatality odds at least one order of magnitude higher than that (vs US/UK/Italy/Spain experiential data)

As said by others, this is *very* preliminary. But it is also, *very* encouraging. And it is data-based, not anecdotal.

I'll take potential good news like this against the flood of bad news we've all been facing for the last 3 months.

 

[Peelz]

Until there is a vaccine, the next best things is to test. We need to be able to test everyone quickly. This would open the door to a lot.

100% agree. give us some guidance on who/where to shelter in place. rather than this blanket one that will ultimately hurt us all. seems smart to me. but. we're in this fun world of loud ideology over quiet fact. Winning over learning.

Our school year is no more as of today, thus our school soccer season.... Truthfully...I'm not certain I would have sent them if it did come back. we have 26 cases in our small county(20,000), but only 150 tests. I would bargain that its WAAAY higher. seems to grow by 4 or so every day.

Also Saw Something funny and dumb In the news today.... and well... Id just assume get my health info from Dr Evil, than I would Dr's Phil or Oz. lol

 

[Dean P]

100% agree. give us some guidance on who/where to shelter in place. rather than this blanket one that will ultimately hurt us all. seems smart to me. but. we're in this fun world of loud ideology over quiet fact. Winning over learning.

Our school year is no more as of today, thus our school soccer season.... Truthfully...I'm not certain I would have sent them if it did come back. we have 26 cases in our small county(20,000), but only 150 tests. I would bargain that its WAAAY higher. seems to grow by 4 or so every day.

Also Saw Something funny and dumb In the news today.... and well... Id just assume get my health info from Dr Evil, than I would Dr's Phil or Oz. lol

To me this is just common sense. Do you have a GPS on your boat? Why? Do you know how your GPS works? Guess what happens when it has no data?

 

[haknslash]

Regarding the big news of the leaked video overnight from part of the large remdesivir study by Gilead:

That U of Chicago uncontrolled study was part of a large (~2400 patients), multi-research-hospital study that Gilead has underway. It includes various types of sub-studies with different purposes.

The U of Chicago was not a controlled, double-blind, placebo study, those are underway elsewhere as part of the broader, coordinated study. Preliminary data are expected from those by the end of April. The U of Chicago study was designed to determine the better medication regime of two choices: shorter vs longer duration therapy (I believe it was 6 day course vs 10 day course). This *very preliminary* info is highly encouraging in a couple of ways:

1) this drug was originally developed for other purposes (I believe it was to fight ebola), so its major side effects risks are largely known

2) Gilead had enough confidence in the drug to test different treatments, indicating their *in vitro* testing showed positive results

3) The average length of time for the "severely ill" COVID-19 patients to move from start of med therapy to hospital discharge from hospital was ~6 days... in terms of better patient outcomes and more capacity to handle the pandemic, total cost, most other system-stressors... quicker time to successful treatment and discharge is nearly always better

4) the 113 successful discharges with 2 deaths out of 125 in study is *highly* encouraging as those in ICU have been looking at fatality odds at least one order of magnitude higher than that (vs US/UK/Italy/Spain experiential data)

As said by others, this is *very* preliminary. But it is also, *very* encouraging. And it is data-based, not anecdotal.

I'll take potential good news like this against the flood of bad news we've all been facing for the last 3 months.

Yup I posted earlier about that and wanted to provide updates from UAB who has also been working with them on this but didn't want to get put in my place again lol. It is encouraging and still early but I'll take small glimmers of hope any day.

UAB developed COVID-19 drug powers strong trading

A drug developed at UAB has shown in small samples to be effective against severe coronavirus patients, leading to a strong period of post-hours trading.

www.al.com

 

[haknslash]

Until there is a vaccine, the next best things is to test. We need to be able to test everyone quickly. This would open the door to a lot.

Here's some food for thought on testing. Recent local news article...

The problems with COVID-19 testing. (And it’s not what you think).

The U.S. was late to start testing. There was great pressure to greenlight any tests quickly to make up for the late start. But the problem starts with the tests themselves.

www.al.com

In short they basically say act as if you have it when out in public to prevent spreading. The tests are not absolute, not 100% and can give false positives and false negatives. Some places recommend multiple different tests. There is also the idea that even if you test today that doesn't not guarantee you won't pick it up the following day, or the day after and so on so testing each day is not ideal and why they recommend only test those showing signs. The problem with that is of course those that are asymptomatic don't know they have it. The best offense is to act like you have it even if you don't and use social distancing and of course rigorous hygiene.

 

[haknslash]

Recent stats from my state:

72% of deaths are people 65 and older.

4,404 coronavirus cases in Alabama: 72% of state’s COVID-19 deaths aged 65 and older

The latest figures on Alabama's coronavirus cases.

www.al.com

African-American people seem to be of higher risk for some reason as well. Not sure if that is gene related or what but it is strange.

Death rate due to COVID-19 higher for black Alabamians

Alabama is still dealing with a relatively low total death count, and a lack of testing in many majority black areas.

www.al.com

What are the stats looking like in your state?

 

[tabbibus]

Update from my little piece of the front line.

1. Plaquenil seems to do jack shit. Another hospital system here doesn't even use it anymore. Actemra is looking very promising for us.

2. Mortality of those who get intubated has not been nearly as bad as reported in Europe and even in NY. I wonder if this is because we are not over run and have more resources to take care of folks with high attention to detail, vs warzone like situations where you are barely keeping up to see patients.

3. Extubated yet another person yesterday. They are looking good. Another one went home today.

4. Testing sucks. Can't trust it. False negatives abound.

5. When you give providers PPE, we will go to war on this virus without fear.