Towing with Tesla Model X

[Peelz]

one thing I found upon doing this trip...

traveling west toward Colorado, the UI scheduled 6 stops. On the way back, it scheduled 4. elevation change requires less %.

 

[BlkGS]

We need about 30 minutes for every 200 miles. That is our inefficient Model 3 because we put on aftermarket rims with wider tires, factory that is probably 250 miles.

Ouch. Is that 30 minutes of pure "plugged in" time?

 

[Peelz]

Ouch. Is that 30 minutes of pure "plugged in" time?

I bet so.

The newer they are the better they charge. Battery/component/software changes.

Depends on how fast you drive that 200 miles. I did about 200 on my trip at 95-100mph (gotta love int. 76) to reach next charger, you need certain percent and tesla plans for that... it was 39 minutes after that stretch at the charger in Brush, CO. Seemingly in no mans land. lol probably could have left sooner, but my speeding eats battery quicker than tesla's UI estimates the percentage upon arrival... SO I charge 10% over what it wants, so speeding is ALWAYS an option. I Dont like seeing single digits as the arrival percentage.

 

[adrianp89]

Ouch. Is that 30 minutes of pure "plugged in" time?

Typically. Like he said, depends how fast I drive, and also depends how low the battery is. It charges faster the lower it is. I average ~320 whr but a lot of guys are in the low 200s and some dedicated people break under 200. For those people 10-60% will get them 200+ miles in 15 minutes or so.

 

[BlkGS]

Typically. Like he said, depends how fast I drive, and also depends how low the battery is. It charges faster the lower it is. I average ~320 whr but a lot of guys are in the low 200s and some dedicated people break under 200. For those people 10-60% will get them 200+ miles in 15 minutes or so.

That's crazy. That's like, 3x the time to fill a tank up for 30 to 50% of the range. You guys are dedicated, I couldn't handle that level of I convince in my machine to make my life more convenient, lol.

 

[Peelz]

Typically. Like he said, depends how fast I drive, and also depends how low the battery is. It charges faster the lower it is. I average ~320 whr but a lot of guys are in the low 200s and some dedicated people break under 200. For those people 10-60% will get them 200+ miles in 15 minutes or so.

yes that charging ramping up staying fast only for a short time thing.... I didn't know about that before my trip! I was confused and Didn't understand why it planned me to drive far for the first leg then a bunch of short legs after the first one. Had to do also with the ability of the chargers too IM sure. I enjoy getting to those v3's and being the only one there and seeing 600+ mph charges.

 

[Peelz]

That's crazy. That's like, 3x the time to fill a tank up for 30 to 50% of the range. You guys are dedicated, I couldn't handle that level of I convince in my machine to make my life more convenient, lol.

yep I thought I would feel that way too. I do not.

Charging at home, and using daily, there is ZERO inconvenience-you NEVER stop. And only a mild one on road trips. But that mild inconvenience is COMPLETELY washed out by the fuel cost going down 64% for the trip.

 

[adrianp89]

That's crazy. That's like, 3x the time to fill a tank up for 30 to 50% of the range. You guys are dedicated, I couldn't handle that level of I convince in my machine to make my life more convenient, lol.

Last trip - one stop each way. First stop we walked over and tried out a Sushi place while it charged, which was pretty good. On the way back we walked over to a mom and pop mexican place - also very good.

It is what you make of it. For 4-6 hour trips, we use the Tesla. Anything longer we use the truck. My wife travels for work in central FL, so the car is perfect for her because she just charges up at home and never has to buy gas, but is reimbursed for mileage.... so just extra money in her pocket.

 

[2kwik4u]

but is reimbursed for mileage.... so just extra money in her pocket.

I'm curious if anyone has total cost of ownership on an EV (tesla or not). My poor economy Sierra was averaging me around $0.485/mi all in (insurance, depreciation, fuel, maintenance, etc) to operate. I wasn't making much money when I drove it for work, but it was nice to be in "my vehicle" instead of a rental on many occasions.

I'll have to go google up some numbers. I would be curious how the total cost of ownership stacks up. I would expect initial purchase to be higher, then insurance, maintenance, and energy to be lower.

Anyone have any data on that?

 

[adrianp89]

I'm curious if anyone has total cost of ownership on an EV (tesla or not). My poor economy Sierra was averaging me around $0.485/mi all in (insurance, depreciation, fuel, maintenance, etc) to operate. I wasn't making much money when I drove it for work, but it was nice to be in "my vehicle" instead of a rental on many occasions.

I'll have to go google up some numbers. I would be curious how the total cost of ownership stacks up. I would expect initial purchase to be higher, then insurance, maintenance, and energy to be lower.

Anyone have any data on that?

I've seen someone online that logs this for a magazine, but they are by the book and are trying to make costs as high as possible it seems.

We bought aftermarkets rims so we now get free tire rotations. That is really the only maintenance. 12v battery needs replaced about same cadence as ICE, same for windshield wipers and fluid, as well as cabin air filter. No other maintenance, maybe brakes but if you do one pedal driving, you probably never need to change pads.

Insurance from old 2016 Charger R/T dropped $200/6months. In this market, the car has appreciated so not sure how you want to calculate that lol.

 

[BlkGS]

Last trip - one stop each way. First stop we walked over and tried out a Sushi place while it charged, which was pretty good. On the way back we walked over to a mom and pop mexican place - also very good.

It is what you make of it. For 4-6 hour trips, we use the Tesla. Anything longer we use the truck. My wife travels for work in central FL, so the car is perfect for her because she just charges up at home and never has to buy gas, but is reimbursed for mileage.... so just extra money in her pocket.

That's fair. If I had time to spare on trips, I guess I could get used to it. But the trips I make, I refuse to go more than a half mile off the interstate for gas. Minimized travel time is my main criteria.

To be honest, I don't have the personality for an EV. I hate charging my phone. The only time I like my phone is that first few weeks that the battery lasts days. Having to charge every night is legitimately the thing I hate most about my phone. I get extra pissed because I know that the battery wearing out is more often than not, by design of the phone, and intended to make me buy a new one.

If I could drive an EV that I could fill up 440 to 600 miles of range in 5 minutes anywhere in the country... I'd be happy. But I don't see myself adapting to their technology.

 

[adrianp89]

That's fair. If I had time to spare on trips, I guess I could get used to it. But the trips I make, I refuse to go more than a half mile off the interstate for gas. Minimized travel time is my main criteria.

To be honest, I don't have the personality for an EV. I hate charging my phone. The only time I like my phone is that first few weeks that the battery lasts days. Having to charge every night is legitimately the thing I hate most about my phone. I get extra pissed because I know that the battery wearing out is more often than not, by design of the phone, and intended to make me buy a new one.

If I could drive an EV that I could fill up 440 to 600 miles of range in 5 minutes anywhere in the country... I'd be happy. But I don't see myself adapting to their technology.

I 100% get it. EVs will get there but it still will be 10 years probably. With MB announcing they are going full electric by 2026, that is going to change a lot.

You should get a wireless charger. I just plop my phone on the pad and it charges, easy enough.

 

[BlkGS]

I 100% get it. EVs will get there but it still will be 10 years probably. With MB announcing they are going full electric by 2026, that is going to change a lot.

You should get a wireless charger. I just plop my phone on the pad and it charges, easy enough.

I have a wireless charger, it's better but finicky.

To be honest, i think those types of claims are intended to boost stocks but not be followed through on. 26 isn't that far away, and there's a lot of people who won't be willing to buy an EV by then. Even MB buyers. Now MB has an ace up their sleeve with the 48v hybrid whatever thing, they could slap that on everything and call it electric.

Volvo is likely going to be the one to watch, as they're going full battery this year or next year, and potentially dooming their whole business. It'll be interesting to see how other automakers pivot if volvos already pathetic sales numbers slip.

 

[donc]

The one thing nobody wants to talk about !! Every time you charge it will discharge a little less. The range will be less and less. Nobody can bring you a charge out in the middle of nowhere.

 

[adrianp89]

The one thing nobody wants to talk about !! Every time you charge it will discharge a little less. The range will be less and less. Nobody can bring you a charge out in the middle of nowhere.

The tech is down so what you lose is almost nothing, and that will improve further. Most claims of battery loss are due to software and not physical loss. That's why they warranty the batteries for 7 or 8 years. The new F150 will power your house for three days, you don't think they won't have electric road rangers to charge you up?

 

[tabbibus]

I have a wireless charger, it's better but finicky.

To be honest, i think those types of claims are intended to boost stocks but not be followed through on. 26 isn't that far away, and there's a lot of people who won't be willing to buy an EV by then. Even MB buyers. Now MB has an ace up their sleeve with the 48v hybrid whatever thing, they could slap that on everything and call it electric.

Volvo is likely going to be the one to watch, as they're going full battery this year or next year, and potentially dooming their whole business. It'll be interesting to see how other automakers pivot if volvos already pathetic sales numbers slip.

for a second I thought this was wireless CAR charging and was like whaaaaaaat... so disappointed now

 

[2kwik4u]

That's fair. If I had time to spare on trips, I guess I could get used to it. But the trips I make, I refuse to go more than a half mile off the interstate for gas. Minimized travel time is my main criteria.

To be honest, I don't have the personality for an EV. I hate charging my phone. The only time I like my phone is that first few weeks that the battery lasts days. Having to charge every night is legitimately the thing I hate most about my phone. I get extra pissed because I know that the battery wearing out is more often than not, by design of the phone, and intended to make me buy a new one.

If I could drive an EV that I could fill up 440 to 600 miles of range in 5 minutes anywhere in the country... I'd be happy. But I don't see myself adapting to their technology.

I had a similar mentality change a few years ago with my cellphone......It was difficult, but once I made the switch I realized it's no big deal.

I had a Galaxy Note 4 that had a replaceable battery. I was travelling a lot by air for work, and picked up an additional 2 batteries and chargers. So I left the hotel in the morning with (3) full charged batteries. I used the phone heavily throughout the day, and would often go through 2.5 charges during a long trip. Then I moved to a "fast charging" Pixel 2XL. It will pickup from 10-15% to like 75% in 15min or something stupid fast like that (I don't remember the exact specs). I anticipated this being an issue from the start, and picked up a power brick to charge along the way during my travels. Come to find out, I spent enough time just "sitting" around in an airport that by strategically picking my spots, I could maintain a "medium" amount of charge throughout the day. I might drop to 10-15% for a bit, but as soon as I was near a power outlet I could quickly regain into the 70-80% window and be good until the next time I was near an outlet. It was a bit of mental gymnastics to get there, and there was a day or two of anxiety surrounding that (not being connected at the time was a big deal for me due to workload), but once I made the switch it was nice to not have to carry/deal with that extra stuff to get through my day.

This premise of not topping off to 100% in 15min with an ICE, and instead planning a stop around lunch, spending 35min of charging in an EV and getting a burger at the same time, just isn't going to compute until we do it. I have enough boy scout in me, and have had to take enough detours, and multi-hour traffic jams, and other BS during road trips that the anxiety of leaving without 100% SoC will take some time and practice to come to terms with. If I'm being honest, there are a number of things in my life right now, that I can look at with the same lense, and realize that I've made the same change in the past for other reasons (although more forced than voluntary).

I expect the change to an EV is the same way. Us "old car guys" are going to have some anxiety about it, and until we can experience it a few times, and come to terms with how it REALLY works, and how it REALLY performs (good or bad), we're just conjecturing about what we think/expect based on decades of ICE powered vehicles. I would wager we're also not "early adopters" on some technologies. Driving an EV, IMO, is still very much for the "early adopters". You have to WANT to do it at this point, it's not the default technology that is easy and cheap. While not revolutionary tech, it is evolutionary enough that it doesn't QUITE fit into all the use cases just yet, and if you want that Swiss Army Knife "do it all" vehicle, then an EV isn't there yet. There are a TON of good use cases for them, and they a lot of things really well, but they aren't QUITE there.

Again, we're still WAY closer now than when this thread started. This thread is a shade over 22mo old now for those keeping score at home. Imagine where we'll be in another 22mo??!!?

 

[BlkGS]

Honestly, I don't think we are any closer. You're expecting people to change to meet the deficiencies of a technology. That's like saying that we should all learn to be OK with our food being cold in the center because the microwave doesn't cook it well enough.

I think the automakers feel like customers just HAVE to buy whatever they sell. They feel like we have no choice, and will buy whatever they offer with a smile. They're insane. Most people won't spend their money on a car that doesn't fit their lifestyle, they'll just keep what they already have, or buy an alternate.

Say Ford decide "we will sell no more ICE after 2025". People who were going to buy a Ford but don't want an EV won't just say "well OK I guess I will learn to live with these limitations", they'll stop by the gm or dodge dealer and buy the car that works for them. It's hard to explain a slip in market share to investors because the market shrinks. It's brutal to explain away a slipping market share when their competitors are scooping it up, because they went ev only and the competition didn't. While the financial elite are rewarding them for these grandiose plans with crazy stock prices, when the finances fall through those financial elite aren't going to step in to prevent their collapse, they'll have their hands out for a taxpayer bailout too.

 

[adrianp89]

I think the automakers feel like customers just HAVE to buy whatever they sell. They feel like we have no choice, and will buy whatever they offer with a smile. They're insane. Most people won't spend their money on a car that doesn't fit their lifestyle, they'll just keep what they already have, or buy an alternate.

You may not, but most people will. These are people buying new cars, and most people don't need to travel cross country. If they cut off gas completely in this decade, I am fairly positive people won't start buying used just because they want gas.

 

[BlkGS]

You may not, but most people will. These are people buying new cars, and most people don't need to travel cross country. If they cut off gas completely in this decade, I am fairly positive people won't start buying used just because they want gas.

There are SO many use cases that prevent EVs from working. People who have street parking, people who live in apartments, people who live off grid... The list is gigantic.

The reality is, there's far millions of people who can't make an EV work that will either be solely buying used cars, buying from whatever ICE manufacturers are left, or pushed out of vehicle ownership entirely. With the average age of a car on the road approaching 15 years now, a battery that's warranties for 6 or 7 years doesn't really do a whole lot for those used buyers.

To be honest, i can easily see this whole thing backfiring spectacularly. All it takes is a swing from far left to far right in our government to elimate the carbon credits market, remove the pushes for EVs, and this whole movement would hit a wall headfirst.

That's to say nothing of the power generation and distribution challenges to even power all these EVs.