Russia Invades Ukraine AND Chinese Aircraft Enter Taiwan Airspace

[Ohio]

No it happened. As I stated, the Ukrainian government had no nuclear weapons program or capability. Ya, the nukes were indeed there in the territory of Ukraine, but they had no control over them, and no real ability to use them. When the Soviet Union fell they didn’t have the money to consolidate the nukes back into Russian territory so they remained in place. Mostly unusable. “Seriously” you think the Russians just said “ya it’s cool guys, y’all are independent now, here is 1200 nukes right on our boarder, please don’t shoot them at us?”

The world powers that be decided it was in the best interest to dismantle the bombs to avoid any of the components from falling into the wrong hands. Ya, Bill singed some papers, the Russians are the ones that dismantled the bombs.

Sure, but that didn't happen right away. To suggest that they didn't have nukes or couldn't use them is disingenuous at best. You have no idea what their ability was.

 

[Bruce]

An interview with a captured Russian intelligence officer.

 

[Inthrustwetrust]

Sure, but that didn't happen right away. To suggest that they didn't have nukes or couldn't use them is disingenuous at best. You have no idea what their ability was.

Sure do. Plenty of good data out there if you look in the right places and skip the highly biased and generally uniformed main stream media. Here are two for you from credible sources. Spark notes if you don’t want to read, Ukraine government never possessed the ability to launch the nukes.

I would recommend you do a little research before you call someone disingenuous on topic you seem to know little about.

Ukraine

Overview of Ukraine's nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile capabilities and nonproliferation activities

www.nti.org

https://www.cato.org/blog/soviet-nukes-ukraine-bargaining-chip-not-deterrent

 

[Bruce]

About that Russian disinformation campaign…

U.N. says no evidence to back Russian claim of Ukraine biological weapons program

The United Nations on Friday said it had no evidence Ukraine had a biological weapons program while Washington and its allies accused Russia of spreading the unproven claim as a possible prelude to launching its own biological or chemical attacks.

www.reuters.com

 

[GTBRMC]

The COVID thread(s) were bad enough. Mods picking out comments in this thread for being “political” is bordering on the ridiculous.

Why is this thread on this jetboating site? Clearly, this thread’s subject matter is political.

Allow threads like this OR have rules against politics. Having both doesn’t work. Recall that political comments were one of the reasons the “other site” became intolerable.

Respectfully, founders / mods / keepers of the flame need to thoughtfully reflect. There are plenty of places on the Internet for this sort of thing.

 

[Bruce]

@GTBRMC, seriously? You go from extensive posting about a questionable source in the CoVID thread to challenging the existence of this thread and the CoVID thread. If you do not want to see these threads you can simply ignore them.

Please return to topic.

We should be able to act like adults and have adult conversations without involving partisan politics.

 

[deubank1776]

@GTBRMC, seriously? You go from extensive posting about a questionable source in the CoVID thread to challenging this thread?

Please return to topic.

We should be able to act like adults and have adult conversations without involving partisan politics.

You knowwww we could just have a "Current Events" thread that you can opt in for topics like this and Covid. That way you can just outlaw politics from the forum and allow it there. That way people can discuss have a political discourse and those who don't... don't.
I think it is important to be able to talk and rationalize our opinions. Regardless of what party those opinions 'belong' too, because that is how we find resolute and or common ground.

 

[Bruce]

@deubank1776, it is possible to discuss ideas without involving partisan politics. Consider stepping beyond any party line and trying independent rational thought supported by facts.

The membership decided to avoid partisan political discussion in 2014 and our all volunteer administrators will do their best to keep it that way. That is a settled issue.

 

[deubank1776]

@deubank1776, it is possible to discuss ideas without involving partisan politics. Consider stepping beyond any party line and trying independent rational thought supported by facts.

The membership decided to avoid partisan political discussion in 2014 and our all volunteer administrators will do their best to keep it that way. That is a settled issue.

You don't know me. Don't ASSume Bruce.

 

[deubank1776]

@deubank1776, it is possible to discuss ideas without involving partisan politics. Consider stepping beyond any party line and trying independent rational thought supported by facts.

The membership decided to avoid partisan political discussion in 2014 and our all volunteer administrators will do their best to keep it that way. That is a settled issue.

While we are at it. Is it just US politics or International Politics. Because only supporting Ukraine seems pretty partisan to me.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I think it is important to be able to talk and rationalize our opinions. Regardless of what party those opinions 'belong' too, because that is how we find resolute and or common ground.

I agree with this statement.

I also believe that we can discuss the facts without bringing 'party' into it.

This comment isn't directed at you, but sometimes folks lob a talking point into a thread without any rationalization. Seems they get easy gratification from it, although quite often it adds nothing to conversation. They they get upset and dislike when you ask them for clarification or post something contrary. IMHO, not a very adult thing to do.

Jim

 

[the MfM]

An interview with a captured Russian intelligence officer.

Using POWs as a public curiosity is war crime under the Geneva conventions. I would suggest that posting links to Ukraine propaganda could be considered partisan.

 

[Bruce]

More video of a Ukrainian attack on a Russian armor.

 

[Bruce]

An informative update on what it is like for the Ukrainian people.

Ukraine says Russian forces kill seven civilians in evacuation convoy

Ukraine accused Russian forces on Saturday of killing seven civilians in an attack on women and children trying to flee fighting near Kyiv, and France said Russian President Vladimir Putin had shown he was not ready to make peace.

www.reuters.com

 

[Bruce]

A very cool Ukrainian bullpup.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44687/ukraines-indigenous-malyuk-bullpup-rifle-is-the-weapon-of-choice-for-its-special-operators

 

[Ohio]

Sure do. Plenty of good data out there if you look in the right places and skip the highly biased and generally uniformed main stream media. Here are two for you from credible sources. Spark notes if you don’t want to read, Ukraine government never possessed the ability to launch the nukes.

I would recommend you do a little research before you call someone disingenuous on topic you seem to know little about.

Ukraine

Overview of Ukraine's nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile capabilities and nonproliferation activities

www.nti.org

https://www.cato.org/blog/soviet-nukes-ukraine-bargaining-chip-not-deterrent

It is a bit too simplistic to say since they didn't have the codes they couldn't use them. I have little doubt we could have provided them with the rescources to make them usable. Additionally, to claim that they couldn't afford to maintain them, is likely a true statement, but again, with our help they could have. We didn't want them to have them any more that Russia wanted them to have them.

 

[zipper]

I saw this today...The designer Philippe Starck also designed the interior of our sailboat for Beneteau on our 35s5 in 1991. The "s" is in reference to Starck.

https://www.yachtingworld.com/news/worlds-largest-sailing-yacht-sailing-yacht-a-seized-137222?fbclid=IwAR36ySiduYefcTBf5HVXGdtzVFeR0gGCuQi9HT5uEneA7STcScaIzVZBgXI

 

[Bruce]

Fun story, hopefully true.

“The stories about the assholes.

In Sumy region, 4 Russian tanks came into the village. Locals sit around their homes watching with interest the life of mammals. The tanks stop, the crew comes out, the two tanks pour fuel into the other two and everyone leaves. And 2 empty tanks are standing in the middle of the village. Locals ran out of the flags of Ukraine in tanks and chkurnula around the houses, sitting waiting. The first two tanks (visibly fuel narili) see 2 tanks with Ukrainian flags and let's shoot them. Rozchêračili tanks, came up understood what their own, broke up. The locals are laughing quietly.
2 tanks that were left on the move, went to the village of ob 'íždžati (apparently lost). And there's a bridge on 5 tons for cars. One tank enters and the bridge collapses, the tank beaks his nose into the river sinks the whole with the crew. The locals are already laughing out loud. One tank left. Went and went, found a ditch and turned over there. The crew got out pushing pushing pushing, so they left that tank there lying and went to voyasí.

That's how a village without a single shot with two only flags of Ukraine defeated 4 tanks of Russian occupiers.”

 

[Neutron]

Fun story, hopefully true.

“The stories about the assholes.

In Sumy region, 4 Russian tanks came into the village. Locals sit around their homes watching with interest the life of mammals. The tanks stop, the crew comes out, the two tanks pour fuel into the other two and everyone leaves. And 2 empty tanks are standing in the middle of the village. Locals ran out of the flags of Ukraine in tanks and chkurnula around the houses, sitting waiting. The first two tanks (visibly fuel narili) see 2 tanks with Ukrainian flags and let's shoot them. Rozchêračili tanks, came up understood what their own, broke up. The locals are laughing quietly.
2 tanks that were left on the move, went to the village of ob 'íždžati (apparently lost). And there's a bridge on 5 tons for cars. One tank enters and the bridge collapses, the tank beaks his nose into the river sinks the whole with the crew. The locals are already laughing out loud. One tank left. Went and went, found a ditch and turned over there. The crew got out pushing pushing pushing, so they left that tank there lying and went to voyasí.

That's how a village without a single shot with two only flags of Ukraine defeated 4 tanks of Russian occupiers.”


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It does seem that Russia did not properly prepare for war. Guess Putin didn't think that proper training and maintenance on equipment is a good idea to put all that weath towards

 

[GTBRMC]

@GTBRMC, seriously? You go from extensive posting about a questionable source in the CoVID thread to challenging the existence of this thread and the CoVID thread. If you do not want to see these threads you can simply ignore them.

Please return to topic.

We should be able to act like adults and have adult conversations without involving partisan politics.

Yes, seriously. Attack the messenger and reference a different thread off-topic... OK, solid.

Clearly on this thread's topic: War is horrific. Lethality of modern weapons nearly guarantees innocents will be killed, maimed, and otherwise suffer life-altering impacts. This war is clearly a war with a primary aggressor. Also, as a major war in the current era where most have video and publication capabilities at their fingertips, the major parties involved are flooding the world with information, disinformation, and misinformation.

All war is political. Partisan politics are all over this thread. Examples: One person I believe to a mod posted a suggestion that NATO should also invade Ukraine. Another person I believe to be a mod has posted a link to a POW video. There are many other examples. Each of these posts represent advocating a particular position in a political conflict. Definitionally, these are partisan political comments. As another poster has noted, sharing of POW videos is considered by many to violate international norms if not the law, and steps specifically Geneva Conventions' prohibitions (per Washington Post, the "many" referenced here include the International Committee of the Red Cross.) ref: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/07/russian-pow-videos/

This thread, and other political threads, and threads on other volatile topics violate this site's Code of Conduct:

"Jetboaters Comunity Forum Code of Conduct, 2. Courtesy and Respect (excerpted):
Forum Content must not:
- Discuss politics or religion as they do not relate to Jetboaters and have a tendency to provoke disagreements."
and
"2D- The membership of the forum voted on if the forum should allow posting of a political nature (or other volatile topics), and it was decided that we should not."

Source: https://jetboaters.net/threads/our-code-of-conduct.30/

Very strongly agree with this post from one of the mods from 2014 when this site was gelling and above rules were under consideration (source: https://jetboaters.net/threads/politics-religion-and-other-volatile-topics.1801/ ):