Russia Invades Ukraine AND Chinese Aircraft Enter Taiwan Airspace

[Bruce]

This article has video of Ukrainian attacks on Russian armor near Kyiv.

Footage shows Ukrainians' attack on Russian tanks in Kyiv suburb, forcing 'retreat,' officials claim

Video shared by Ukraine’s defense agency appeared to show Ukrainian forces taking out a Russian military tank regiment on the outskirts of Kyiv and forcing their retreat.

www.fox10phoenix.com

 

[Inthrustwetrust]

Uh....no. We should be outraged, but because gas prices are climbing it seems that is more important than the invasion of a democratic country. No different than Kuwait - but with Kuwait we knew we could kick the aggressors ass. With Russia we are justifiably concerned about a larger escalation - so we stick to sanctions out of fear.


We convinced them to give up their Nukes. We didn't give them other advanced weapons because, until 8 years ago, it was a puppet regime of Russia's. And if we do nothing, it will be a puppet regime again.

The sanctions are huge, but Putin himself isn't hurt by them (yet). He is whining that these sanctions are akin to declaring war on Russia - probably to mollify and delude us into thinking he gives a shit.

I still say we (NATO) should move into Western Ukraine (invited by Zelensky) in a "peacekeeping" mission (The Russians are not in Western Ukraine) and divide the country into "East/West" and see how it turns out - worked well for Germany.....repeat it.

Ukraine never had nukes, common misconception. Soviets put them there, when the union fell they remained there for a bit, but they were not under control of the Ukraine government. The big red button was still guarded and controlled by the Russians.

 

[Bruce]

Personally, I think that Ukraine is better off surrendering to Russia and giving them whatever they want (assurances to not join nato, etc) than to become even more of a war zone.

I am glad that your opinion is very much a minority opinion. Especially among the Ukrainians who are bravely fighting for their freedom and by extension freedom throughout the world.

Imagine how many lives would have been saved if the Austrians had defeated Hitler.

 

[Bruce]

Perspective from Taiwan.

Perhaps the most important paragraph “ While Taiwan has stepped up its alert level since the war in Ukraine, it has reported no unusual Chinese military activities, though China's air force has continued to mount occasional missions into Taiwan's air defence identification zone.”

China-Taiwan war would end in 'miserable victory' -Taiwan minister

No matter who wins in any future war between Taiwan and China, it will be a "miserable victory", Taiwan Defence Minister Chiu Kuo-cheng said on Thursday, adding it was best if everyone avoided conflict.

www.reuters.com

 

[BlkGS]

I am glad that your opinion is very much a minority opinion. Especially among the Ukrainians who are bravely fighting for their freedom and by extension freedom throughout the world.

Imagine how many lives would have been saved if the Austrians had defeated Hitler.

You went to the Hitler extreme huh? Pretty desperate.

You have daughters right? How would you feel if they went and fought in Ukraine and were killed for someone else's war? Let's be real, Russia doesn't have the capability to do anything outside of a limited incursion like what they did in Ukraine. So why send our children to fight and die against a country that poses no threat to us, and is really only a local player in Eastern Europe? What's the rationale? Just "doing the right thing"? Because we sure as hell don't care about that, see China.

 

[BlkGS]

Perspective from Taiwan.

Perhaps the most important paragraph “ While Taiwan has stepped up its alert level since the war in Ukraine, it has reported no unusual Chinese military activities, though China's air force has continued to mount occasional missions into Taiwan's air defence identification zone.”

China-Taiwan war would end in 'miserable victory' -Taiwan minister

No matter who wins in any future war between Taiwan and China, it will be a "miserable victory", Taiwan Defence Minister Chiu Kuo-cheng said on Thursday, adding it was best if everyone avoided conflict.

www.reuters.com

I suspect that it'd be tough for Taiwan to stay independent in the face of a full on Chinese invasion with no US intervention.

Uh oh I just said Taiwan is independent, the liberals are gonna absolutely cancel me over that.

 

[Julian]

Uh oh I just said Taiwan is independent, the liberals are gonna absolutely cancel me over that

Where do you get this warped sense of reality?

Very glad most people support defending people/countries against bullies.

 

[BlkGS]

Where do you get this warped sense of reality?

Very glad most people support defending people/countries against bullies.

Well now I'm just confused by your statement. Liberals that are enamored by China also love the "One China Policy". So saying Taiwan isn't part of China offends them and their communist overlords.

I haven't seen any polls on US support for going to war with Russia, but I bet that support is low. Really low.

 

[tabbibus]

I say we ask our friend here to check all the boxes that show a tree, Captcha style. I suspect he's a Russian bot.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Uh oh I just said Taiwan is independent, the liberals are gonna absolutely cancel me over that.

Sorry, but this makes no sense at all.

Jim

 

[Quad]

Well now I'm just confused by your statement. Liberals that are enamored by China also love the "One China Policy". So saying Taiwan isn't part of China offends them and their communist overlords.

I haven't seen any polls on US support for going to war with Russia, but I bet that support is low. Really low.

I know some seriously lefty folks and I have literally heard NONE of them take this position.

 

[BlkGS]

I know some seriously lefty folks and I have literally heard NONE of them take this position.

Really? Maybe it's just my lefty friends. When John Cena called Taiwan a country they all shat a brick about how disrespectful it was. Pretty sure trump made a similar comment and they lost it. If you press them on how they think it should be handled they hit you with the "I think you should educate yourself" line that people who are just spouting what they've been told to believe use when they have no idea why other than that's what their thought leaders told them.

 

[Ohio]

Wrong on so many counts as I've said before, we should agree to disagree.

The EU has done a TON to support the Ukraine - including taking Millions of refugees, supplying 500 MILLION Euros worth of support (arms), and enacting sanctions.

Your "So Ukraine becomes a Russian puppet, who cares?" - sums your perspective up entirely. Fuck the Ukraine - I don't live there. I want to be an isolationist nation.

Astonishing really. Fortunately that is a minority perspective in the US. Unfortunately that is a growing sentiment among Americans. But perhaps it will result in a massive reduction in "Defense" spending as we'd only need to focus on DEFENSE and we could withdraw to our borders and screw the rest of the world? Huh.....

We can't fix everything in the world. But we sure played a major part in messing up Ukraine. Europe has plenty of fire power and know how to evict Putin from Ukraine should then really want to.

 

[Ohio]

Ukraine never had nukes, common misconception. Soviets put them there, when the union fell they remained there for a bit, but they were not under control of the Ukraine government. The big red button was still guarded and controlled by the Russians.

Seriously? Clinton signed an accord to get rid of over 1200 nuke warheads in 1994. Are you saying this was all a ruse?

 

[Bruce]

Maybe it's just my lefty friends.

Back off the partisan politics if you want to continue participating in this thread.

 

[Bruce]

This is Budapest Memorandum which was signed as part of the Ukraine giving up nuclear weapons in their possession.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

NPR has a good article on the topic.

Why Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons — and what that means in an invasion by Russia

Three decades ago, the newly independent country of Ukraine was briefly the third-largest nuclear power in the world. A lot has changed since then.

www.npr.org

 

[Inthrustwetrust]

Seriously? Clinton signed an accord to get rid of over 1200 nuke warheads in 1994. Are you saying this was all a ruse?

No it happened. As I stated, the Ukrainian government had no nuclear weapons program or capability. Ya, the nukes were indeed there in the territory of Ukraine, but they had no control over them, and no real ability to use them. When the Soviet Union fell they didn’t have the money to consolidate the nukes back into Russian territory so they remained in place. Mostly unusable. “Seriously” you think the Russians just said “ya it’s cool guys, y’all are independent now, here is 1200 nukes right on our boarder, please don’t shoot them at us?”

The world powers that be decided it was in the best interest to dismantle the bombs to avoid any of the components from falling into the wrong hands. Ya, Bill singed some papers, the Russians are the ones that dismantled the bombs.

 

[Bruce]

Oligarchs must be feeling some pain.

Don't take Russia back to 1917, Russian metals king Potanin warns

 

[Bruce]

Interesting information on Ukrainian air defense systems and how they might be supplemented.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44673/ukraine-needs-ground-based-air-defenses-way-more-than-migs-here-are-the-best-options

 

[Bruce]

This is reported to be Ukrainian artillery strikes on Russian tanks. Terrible video but highly accurate fire.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1501810489038446593