Bimini 2018

[bronze_10]

What is meant by battling waves vs skimming them exactly?
I mean, basically what fo we need to do according to your data

Buy mouth gaurds before the crossing!

 

[veedubtek]

Some boats who stayed in the duck trail ran out of fuel

:wave:

 

[Bruce]

What is meant by battling waves vs skimming them exactly?

I suspect that I was modulating the throttle more and more gently than @Betik or @MrMoose allowing for lower fuel burn. @swatski likely reduced his fuel burn due to achieving higher speed.

 

[Betik]

What is meant by battling waves vs skimming them exactly?
I mean, basically what fo we need to do according to your data

Bruce kind of covered it, but basically I believe my mistakes were the following;

1. stayed too close to Bruce ( I would say 50 yards more or less)
2. I maintained a heading regardless of what was in-front of me. Zero evasive action.
3. I avoided touching throat unless I had too

I believe that Bruce was taking more diplomatic with the waves and during the time he was behind me, he was really behind me ( 200-300 yards or more)

In case you are interested to know why I did what I did......

1. Our planed formation was a V- shape with 150 yards distance from the boat ahead & 75 yards to the side. @Water Girl & @hobineros took the stbd side and more or less maintained position. @chris24 + Mrs and @Valerie took the port side. Within a matter of minutes it was clear that we could not maintain a proper formation. Chris quickly moved more or less parallel with Bruce and started veering north. The waves were not 1.8 feet I did not want to follow to much behind. The only way for my to get clear water was to moved about 100 yards north of bruce ( his port side) and given the conditions I did was not sure this was a good idea. While I am absorbing the situation, there were times where I was hiting the combined wakes produced by both Bruce and Chris. Before I get a grip of what is going on, in one my early landing, my stbd engine died. It was the kill switch on clean out ports, but at that time I did not cross my mind. After the engine shut off, I really really did not want to loose sight of Bruce. Emotionally it made me feel comfortable and practically it gave me enough time to restart an engine and keep going if it were to die again without loosing visual contact with Bruce. As it turned the engine died again once more, but I was able to recover very quickly that second time. The truth is that at times I thought that boat will simply just brake in half and we will have to be plugged out the water.
2. Given my inexperience or the fact ocean was mess, I could not really dedect any waver pattern. So trying to take them at 45 degrees or whatever, was just a fool errant, at least for me that was the case. Furthermore, while reading the forum, I constantly heard that boat can handle more than we can handle, so I did not try to "protect" the boat. Judging from the damage, I underestimated my ability to hit the waves and overestimated my boats ability to take the waves. Live and learn. LOL
3. Given that on July 10th I had a total of 20 hours experience on the helm ( yes, that makes me an idiot) I was not very good at micro-adjusting the throttle. Especially, given the conditions, I just tried to use the cruise control to manage my speed.

 

[Betik]

Or was that all a fancy way of saying get tabs people?

My post was not meant to be sale pitch for trim tabs. It was more of warning message for another "Betik" who thinks that he/she can buy a boat in November and go to Bimini in July. My ultimate point was the guy/gal on the helm is significant factor between making it with fuel to spare or running out of fuel. It is also worth noticing, that @Water Girl had significantly less damage on her boat than I did ( she has way more experience than me in boating). I am not sure about her fuel, but I do not recall her mentioning on the radio that she was beeping on fuel.

in regard to the trim tabs. Besides the $700, and 3 hours of installation labor, I do not see why not have them! They can be retracted to a point they are just dead weight and not touch the water at all, so in my book they are worth every penny. Knowing what I know today, I will still install them. The only difference is that I would get @swatski control not the oval. The oval is good enough, but it needs attention to keep the tabs synched.

 

[Betik]

20% seems about accurate. @Bruce numbers appear to indicate about the same as he had a 10% difference between full deployment and partial deployment so I would bet the was another 10% difference between partial and not using the tabs. In 2016 the boats had plenty of fuel left between the run from Bimini to Chub Cay about 100 miles this year using the tabs the boats arrived in Spanish Cay about 100 miles from West End on fumes literally both had maybe a gallon or two left in the tank.

In all honesty, I think I was over trimmed, but I do not have video of my boat to be able to tell for sure. So maybe, 20% is indeed accurate.
I am kind thinking to run a test in April. 30 minute intervals with 0,50%,100% trim. The 3 points should be able to let me see the curvature if there is one. I am suspecting that the loss in efficiency is not linear.

 

[hobineros]

FWIW, I have no tabs and I also had ZERO incidents of any thing but minute spray hitting my cockpit floor. Boat stayed dry the entire trip. I think the squall dumped more water in my boat than the waves off the bow ever did. lol

 

[Speedling]

I don't know if you guys had it where you would start a domino effect on the waves, meaning, first wave is a rough hit, which means following wave gets you airborn or close to it, which slams you hard into third.
I know lake Michigan is a different beast but i find in those situations cutting the boat back and forth a bit keeps on plane but kills speed a bit and helps that second wave to not get u airborn. I won't lie, the first few times are fun but after 20 minutes is stressful and i can't imagine that long a trip doing it!
I think you are right about the spacing as well. You are going to hate the boat wakes especially if they are combining/clashing.
Perhaps spread out sideways/ horizontal.
Lake Michigan is all the yacht wakes. Rogue 5-7 foot waves at any time!

 

[swatski]

I did not take any water over the bow, other than spray and squall.
(Well, for a full disclaimer, there was this ~2min blackout window when I was pinned down under my tower/bimini, but I don't think much happened there, fortunately)

I find it relatively easy to keep up with big waves in these boats. Not comfortable, but as long as the pumps are working 100%, speed/acceleration control is next to none.

As far as fuel burn, I kind of lost track of where this discussion is going, but need to point out that I run with the L13 cones which increase pump loading/efficiency. No idea what it translates into numbers, but there is no question those cones make the pumps more efficient by keeping them loaded better, especially in rough water.

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[hobineros]

I think someone was asking about gas in a 195. haha

 

[Betik]

I think someone was asking about gas in a 195. haha

Yeap and I like to hear myself talk regardless of subject or expertise.

 

[Berrie]

Yeap and I like to hear myself talk regardless of subject or expertise.

@Betik well at least you don't know everything, like me... (NOT).

 

[Bruce]

FWIW, I have no tabs and I also had ZERO incidents of any thing but minute spray hitting my cockpit floor. Boat stayed dry the entire trip. I think the squall dumped more water in my boat than the waves off the bow ever did. lol

@Betik has the lowest bow of the three of us but I am surprised by how much water he had in his boat. You have the highest bow.

I was heavily trimmed for most of the crossing. We never had any water in the boat just spray.

 

[Bruce]

need to point out that I run with the L13 cones which increase pump loading/efficiency

That is an important point and an excellent testimony for the L13 cones. I did not have any fancy cones but crossed on new impellers in recently resealed pumps.

 

[swatski]

new impellers in recently resealed pumps

So true, @Bruce, these are key points here: well-sealed pumps, impellers in good shape.
All other mods are distant second.

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[Glen]

@swatski, do you happen to have inReach data? How about @Glen or @MrMoose?

Here is my inreach data-
https://share.delorme.com/radianthope

has both the '16 and '17 Bimini data in it.
(as well as an adventure trip with my daughter to Paris, Normandy, London and Oxford

Use the filters (top left) to filter to just the data you are interested in.

2 'interesting' drifts in the '17 crossing data:

b/w 10:25 and :35, on July 10'17, ran out of fuel about 4 miles from the Sands.
You can see in the data that ~15 miles out, I picked up speed to improve range and ensure we ran out as close to Bimini as possible-

Just before 9AM on the 18th, we stopped at the mid-point for a 10 minute swim

 

[Betik]

@Glen this is very helpful as it helps me better align my own 10 minute interval with Bruce and yours. Will post something in a bit.....

 

[Speedling]

I was actually thinking of opening up the nozzles slightly to get the last bit of rpm from my engines, but i bet at cruising rpm it would help from cavitation on the bumpy rides and i would only pick up like 1 mph, so, in the argument to be cautious i get to be lazy.

 

[swatski]

I was actually thinking of opening up the nozzles slightly to get the last bit of rpm from my engines, but i bet at cruising rpm it would help from cavitation on the bumpy rides and i would only pick up like 1 mph, so, in the argument to be cautious i get to be lazy.

Yeah, if you just bored the venturi nozzle opening without installing a bigger cone, like L13, I think you would risk a scenario where you can gain some (max) RPM but lose top speed AND pump efficiency.

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[D3nN1s]

Anyone see the Fuel Bladders by ATL?

They offer custom sizes for compartments as well... Looks a little pricey, but being able to roll it up when your done might be worth the extra money... www.atlinc.com