Blue Seas Add a battery kit Questions

[jetboater4life]

I ended up taking the kids to bounce world instead of finishing off the install. One more question though. Of the four wires shown in my picture with the ring terminals twisty tied. The two red 4 gauge wires are from the engines, no question on that. The other two are black 6 gauge wires and each run through a 20amp fuse that is screwed into the same area where I am installing the add a battery kit. Why would there be two coming from the helm? Is one for each ECM?and then which one carries the current for the helm accessories?

What confused me at first and prompted my initial question was that the wires were black. Because of the rats nest of wires with the bundled ground wires being right there too I didn't see that the 6 gauge black wires were fused (which indicates a power/positive wire "most of the time"). I'm in the process of fusing the ground wire from the ACR (per the manual), however I noticed @Rigger didn't do that. Blue seas calls for a 10 Amp fuse there.

 

[txav8r]

@jetboater4life Did you buy a heavy duty hammer crimper? I sure could use one of those!

 

[jetboater4life]

@jetboater4life Did you buy a heavy duty hammer crimper? I sure could use one of those!

Yep, you can see it in the last picture of this post.

http://www.delcity.net/store/Solderless-Connector-Crimping-Tool/p_1027

Works great, I'll take a picture of all the wires I've made.

There are a lot of these crimpers on amazon.com too.

 

[Rigger]

I ended up taking the kids to bounce world instead of finishing off the install. One more question though. Of the four wires shown in my picture with the ring terminals twisty tied. The two red 4 gauge wires are from the engines, no question on that. The other two are black 6 gauge wires and each run through a 20amp fuse that is screwed into the same area where I am installing the add a battery kit. Why would there be two coming from the helm? Is one for each ECM?and then which one carries the current for the helm accessories?

What confused me at first and prompted my initial question was that the wires were black. Because of the rats nest of wires with the bundled ground wires being right there too I didn't see that the 6 gauge black wires were fused (which indicates a power/positive wire "most of the time"). I'm in the process of fusing the ground wire from the ACR (per the manual), however I noticed @Rigger didn't do that. Blue seas calls for a 10 Amp fuse there.

Yea it's a chance I'm taking - but that's because I didn't even think about a fuse on this particular ground. Thanks for pointing this out @jetboater4life! Come to think of it, I didn't do this on my old boats ACR either. Interesting though, what kind of fault current would you get through this wire? Guess that's why it's a fault current - you never know.

 

[jetboater4life]

Yea it's a chance I'm taking - but that's because I didn't even think about a fuse on this particular ground. Thanks for pointing this out @jetboater4life! Come to think of it, I didn't do this on my old boats ACR either. Interesting though, what kind of fault current would you get through this wire? Guess that's why it's a fault current - you never know.

I normally don't think about fusing grounds either but when I talked to the blue seas guy they said that fuse will save the ACR if something bad happens. However isn't the ACR hosed if the fuse needs to blow??? I dunno, so I'm putting one in.

 

[txav8r]

I didn't fuse it at all and don't intend to fuse the new one either. I too spoke to Blue Sea, they are just CYAing. I agree, the ACR is gone if the fuse blows.

 

[Rigger]

Agreed, the ACR is screwed either way. But good catch none the less and I'll consider putting one as well so I can CMA

 

[bthessel]

Anyone have a parts list they used with the Add a Battery kit? I have installed one in my last boat but beyond buying the kit on amazon I just ran around to autoparts stores for fuses and battery cables. I would like to do it right this time.

i was looking at using these fuses:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0019ZBTV4...UTF8&colid=WQLM87KSYVB8&coliid=I1ELM9ACKKPGVT

2 of these for the bus bars:
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syst...d=1419863712&sr=1-4&keywords=blue+sea+bus+bar

battery tray:

http://www.amazon.com/Attwood-Batte...419863865&sr=1-1&keywords=marine+battery+tray


Do I need marine battery cables if I am only boating on fresh water?

 

[txav8r]

All marine wiring should be tinned...but even manufacturers don't follow that simple guideline. Why? Cost. Every wire I add to my boat is tinned...even on fresh water. You can get away with it for the near term, but long term, and the next owner of your boat, will thank you for doing it right, by what they are willing to pay.

 

[David Analog]

I have used and spec'd those buss bars many times. The Blue Sea relays and switches use 3/8" posts. So if passing high current (such as starter feed, stereo supply, or alternator/stator outputs) I wouldn't use any distribution device with less than 5/16" posts. Batteries use 5/16" posts. 1/4" is just too small unless it is used for smaller current applications. 4-gauge distribution blocks with heavy duty set screws are a good alternative for high current applications.

As for wire, stay away from cheaper and lighter weight wire that is not all copper.

I am most concerned with the quality of the terminations. A great mechanical crimp using a heavy gauge terminal followed by a clean solder followed by heat shrink.

 

[bthessel]

thanks David, good stuff to know. Looks like I can order tinned cables in 25' lengths on amazon from Ancor. When most people add a second battery do they put them right next to each other or on opposite sides of the boat? The single battery today was located all the way to the middle under the passenger seat on the port side. I think it was put up there since there are ballast bags installed toward the back end on each side.

 

[David Analog]

Unless there are extremely large and heavy multi-battery banks, then most install the limited two or three batteries right next to one another. You want to minimize cable lengths to keep resistance low. And, when a battery charger is added, which is essential for a Yamaha with a stereo battery that gets deeply discharged, then if possible I want to keep the shore charger leads equal in length, short as realistically possible, and low in resistance. Keep in mind that a deeply discharged group 24 battery could demand as much as 10 amps initially for a short duration which is a heck of a lot of re-charging current running through a 16-gauge wire even without it being lengthened.
Btw, Odin with Earmark Marine specs out his equipment for his customers right down to the last ring terminal and correct size. Plus, he will pre-crimp, solder and heat shrink the terminations for a reasonable price.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

I installed my second battery in the opposite storage compartment so I wouldn't lose all of the floor storage area on one side. My charger lead wires for the far side were upgraded to a thicker gauge. Promariner sells extension kits for their chargers if you wanted to go that route.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Somebody listed a link to a place to order custom battery wires. I think he and this company was in Pennsylvania.

Anybody remember this?


Here it be!

https://jetboaters.net/threads/tinnedmarinewire-com-review.3395/#post-56574

 

[bthessel]

Do I need a dual bank charger? Or with the ACR it will send the charge to both?

 

[David Analog]

You need to have a dual bank charger so that the two banks, which will have different charges, can be profiled and serviced independently.
You need to take a modified route to wiring the Add-A-Battery kit so that the higher charger voltage won't keep the two banks connected thereby circumventing the isolation when in storage.

 

[bthessel]

Is it even worth using the kit with the ACR then? I could skip the ACR, and just have a switch. I had an ACR in my old I/O drive boat and never had to charge the batteries, they both stayed charged but it sounds like I would need to charge them at the end of the day no matter what now.

 

[David Analog]

The ACR is still a major +, particularly in a Yamaha with stators of very limited amperage output. If after a long stay at rest playing the stereo with a drained stereo battery, once underway you could initially see a 10 amp draw from a depleted battery, add to that 15 amps of boat operation, plus 25 to 35 amps of continued stereo draw. You have easily doubled the stators output. As a result the stereo battery never recharges fully, and the starting battery is siphoned to a degree if the dual battery switch is combined once underway again. It's also an unhealthy strain on the stators. So an ACR protects your charging system and isolates your starting battery from depletion.
However, the ACR may increase your dependency on shore charging. Additionally, you have to keep an eye on the stereo battery depletion level. For longevity you do not want to routinely discharge below 11.8 volts. If you regularly fall below that then you need more battery capacity which in turn requires more shore charging capacity.
There is no such thing as a perfect scenario when it comes to dual bank charging systems. There are always some inherent conflicts. There is no one size that fits all applications. So you need to have the right design that properly addresses your unique usage habits and minimizes any conflicts....and some awareness and conscious management is needed.

 

[msavold]

@txav8r...
Mel, reviving this old thread - in the process of installing Blue Seas kit and second battery following your "with buss" diagram from page 1 of all this. (Thanks! Much clearer than the factory version.)
What confuses me is this: right now, I only have a single-bank charger. Am planning to get a two-bank "soon" but I figure there are only a handful of outings left before the boat goes into storage and the batteries come out for the winter. I may be misunderstanding this whole switch/ACR thing since I can't figure out how the heck to hook up the single charger.
Yeah, the first drawing (annotated one) shows a single charger on the house battery, which is where I was thinking of putting it, but it also shows the ACR on the "other side" of the switch. And I can't sort out in my mind what difference that makes - particularly as far as the charger is concerned.
What the hell am I missing? Does it make any difference?

 

[jetboater4life]

If you plan to wire it for a dual charger I would wire it like I did, using Mel's diagram, with the ACR on the load side. With the single charger you would need to put the batteries in combine mode to charge them both, or turn the switch off and charge each battery individually. I use the pulsetech charger which brings everything up to 100% overnight for me with the switch in the off position.