Coronavirus

[Enduro900]

Well, there aren't a whole lot of options. Fortunately most people under 45 don't need to do anything at all, other than ride it out. So I presume the 'much more effective treatment' you are referring to is Gilead Remdesivir. It has EUA, but is also not an approved-Covid therapy. It comes with a long list of side effects; studies show 60-70% of those taking it have serious side effects. Magic pill or magic pillow?

You forgot to mention Remdesivir has a $3k price tag per treatment,,,,,,verses a few dollars for HCQ........And last I heard had a LOT of issues of its own (unclear results in some recent real-world treatment cases, and as you mentioned some serious side effects as well....)

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

You forgot to mention Remdesivir has a $3k price tag per treatment,,,,,,verses a few dollars for HCQ........And last I heard had a LOT of issues of its own (unclear results in some recent real-world treatment cases, and as you mentioned some serious side effects as well....)

The pricing is a concern, but if it works and is the best available - that's what I would take. Not sure it is though. If I had any sort of liver issue NASH/Hep, etc...I'd look for alternatives.

 

[AZMark]

I will post this a third time:
Do you think the MN governor got pressure from some well-known Doctors in MN to reverse this or just some crack-pot internet Chiropractor to reverse his position??

Since you really want it acknowledged

The pressure and reversal are based on the unique issue of just a few states choosing to limit doctors’ ability to prescribe medicine as they see fit. It probably wasn’t a great idea to begin with if there isn’t a true shortage.

It’s not an endorsement of it’s effectiveness, the governor has no secret information on that.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

In other news: Australia is leaning towards mandatory vaccinations. link

 

[Enduro900]

Since you really want it acknowledged

The pressure and reversal are based on the unique issue of just a few states choosing to limit doctors’ ability to prescribe medicine as they see fit. It probably wasn’t a great idea to begin with if there isn’t a true shortage.

It’s not an endorsement of it’s effectiveness, the governor has no secret information on that.

Understood.....but the whole blocking of doctors using HCQ on an “off label” basis shows how political this has gotten....No governors have gotten in the way of Doctors prescribing “off label” in the past.....That is how the opioid crisis happened......Opioids were allowed on the market as a “Last resort pain treatment for serious late-stage cancer patients”......and then doctors started prescribing “off label” for pain treatments in general....created from pressure by the pharma industry.....if only these governors had given opioids the same attention.......

 

[Ronnie]

I would disagree as there are a bunch of experts in the field that have experienced success using HCQ, they just haven’t have had the same platform opportunities to tell their successes for obvious reasons....

Here is just one recent study that I will post again with thousands of patients involved:

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows

www.henryford.com

And IF HCQ doesn’t work at all, why did this happen:

MN Governor Quietly Reverses Course on Hydroxychloroquine | RealClearPolitics

This past week Minnesota became the second state to reject regulations that effectively ban the controversial drug hydroxychloroquine for use by COVID-19...

www.realclearpolitics.com

Your second line about the price going up.....purely speculation.....but if it did, lets say a 100%-300% Increase......you are now talking dimes instead of pennies per pill....and I personally do not believe that people using it for other treatments wouldn’t be able to get it.

But lets say HCQ DOES work with Covid and supplies become limited? Who should then get it first, a person with Covid or a person with arthritis or some other ailments that there may be other comparable treatments for????

Do you have a vested interest in HCQ or the company that produces it?

Our Nation’s leading expert does not recommend HCQ as a treatment for Covid and as I recall he and other relevant experts have listed serious potential side effects for users. As for the Yale expert you referenced, his peers just openly disagreed with his position after pointing out that he is not an expert in the pertinent field.

I currently work for the largest healthcare provider in the state of California, which also provides services in eight other states and the District of Columbia. As a company with over 23,000 MDs and over 63,000 nurses we have collectively decided not to prescribe HCQ to our patients. I know who I’m am going to trust and listen to and won’t try to persuade you to do the same as it seems like / your posts above read like you have already made up your mind.

As for pricing, as demand increases so does the price especially if there is more demand than supply, these are basic supply and demand principles not speculation. Speculation is you thinking the increase would be limited to pennies instead of dollars. There are already may reports of current HCQ users being unable to get their prescriptions refilled because of lack of supply.

 

[Enduro900]

Do you have a vested interest in HCQ or the company that produces it?

Our Nation’s leading expert does not recommend HCQ as a treatment for Covid and as I recall listed serious potential side effects for users. As for the Yale expert his peers just openly disagreed with his position after pointing out that he is not an expert in the pertinent field. As for myself, I currently work for the largest healthcare provider in the state of California, which also provides services in eight other states. Our practitioners

Haha, Nope....I have a vested interest in Doctors being able to prescribe what THEY feel is the best treatment for THEIR patients.....without interference from Political Governors of only one party.....

Whom is the “Our nations leading expert” that you speak of?

And thanks for the lesson in supply and demand. Your statement assumes the supply doesn’t increase as demand does, which is assumptive on your part which again is speculative.....and thanks for sharing the size of your organization.....there are other large healthcare organizations that would also disagree with your collective decision....so I will say the jury is still out.....

So I will simply go back to my original statement that in this case with something that is this new, doctors should have the right to use whatever they feel is in the best interest of their patients without interference from politicians or even large healthcare organizations putting restrictions on them.....

 

[Dean P]

Haha, Nope....I have a vested interest in Doctors being able to prescribe what THEY feel is the best treatment for THEIR patients.....without interference from Political Governors of only one party.....

Whom is the “Our nations leading expert” that you speak of?

This is going nowhere. Please read all 91 pages and then post comments. If you do, you will understand. Let's not make this political.

 

[Enduro900]

This is going nowhere. Please read all 91 pages and then post comments. If you do, you will understand. Let's not make this political.

What I stated wasn’t Political it was factual: Doctors should have a right to decide treatment without interference from Governors (this has never happened before To my knowledge).....and the only governors that are interfering have a D next to their name.....factual...

Whether one thinks HCQ is good or bad is their opinion.....there is no clear consensus, and that is backed up by studies from both sides of the argument, from highly-regarded doctors and hospitals from both sides of the argument...

BTW I am an independant, so I look at both parties with skepticism......

 

[Dean P]

What I stated wasn’t Politcal it was factual: Doctors should have a right to decide treatment without interference from Governors (this has never happened before To my knowledge).....and the only governors that are interfering have a D next to their name.....factual...

Whether one thinks HCQ is good or bad is their opinion.....there is no clear consensus, and that is backed up by studies from both sides of the argument, from highly-regarded doctors and hospitals from both sides of the argument...

BTW I am an independant, so I look at both parties with skepticism......

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You have already made it political. Honestly, I don't care if you're R, D or I. Makes no difference to me (and does not make you nor me a bad person) unless you take a political view/stand because of a party. That's where the line must be drawn. Please follow the guidelines of this forum. Thank you.

 

[Enduro900]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You have already made it political. Honestly, I don't care if you're R, D or I. Makes no difference to me (and does not make you nor me a bad person) unless you take a political view/stand because of a party. That's where the line must be drawn. Please follow the guidelines of this forum. Thank you.

Ok I will clarify without politics or party reference........It is my opinion that it is wrong for ANY governor to restrict by petition or executive order the use of HCQ by Doctors that believe it might help their patients recover from Covid-19......

It is also my opinion that this has never happened before (that a governor has restricted use of any “off label” drug treatments prior to HCQ).

 

[tabbibus]

This topic is going to have its day in court, likely soon.

I invite you to look into who the AAPS is and what it advocates. I won't get deep into the HCQ debate. I follow the data and the experts. I don't follow flawed studies and anecdotal evidence. I weight risk and benefits. It is what I do. Every, single, freaking day. I use drugs that may cause harm, but I do so with caution. With all that being said. I would not prescribe HCQ to anyone for COVID.

May I change the subject? It is my ICU week again. And this shit is grim. The cases seem to be slowing down. But I swear this has to be a mutated strain or something like that. Patients are no longer improving as much as before. They linger, then they die. It is really depressing and I'm only 3 days into my service.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

I invite you to look into who the AAPS is and what it advocates. I won't get deep into the HCQ debate. I follow the data and the experts. I don't follow flawed studies and anecdotal evidence. I weight risk and benefits. It is what I do. Every, single, freaking day. I use drugs that may cause harm, but I do so with caution. With all that being said. I would not prescribe HCQ to anyone for COVID.

I get it. They either took a position you were uncomfortable with or a member said something ridiculous. It happens. It also happens that it’s a society of thousands of doctors. I’ve seen stuff coming out of the AMA and AAP that made me question if it was written by a middle schooler.

i can’t even agree with my own family, or heck, my own wife...on everything. I have no illusion of agreeing 100% with any organization.

Lets play the ball, not the baller.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

May I change the subject? It is my ICU week again. And this shit is grim. The cases seem to be slowing down. But I swear this has to be a mutated strain or something like that. Patients are no longer improving as much as before. They linger, then they die. It is really depressing and I'm only 3 days into my service.

In April/May there was some concern that antibodies might not stick around in perpetuity (or a new infection from a mutation). That concern seems to be subsiding due to some very recent studies. The mutations are supposed to weaken the virus, over time. I am really looking forwards to studies that detail how the mutations affect the cytokines storms and resulting ards.

 

[Rockfords Fosgate]

Another study released yesterday suggests that h2 inhibitors like Pepcid support faster healing when infected by COVID. C-reactive protein and other serum markers were improved, as was mortality.

Its usefulness is thought to be through how it prevents viral replication.

 

[AZMark]

In April/May there was some concern that antibodies might not stick around in perpetuity (or a new infection from a mutation). That concern seems to be subsiding due to some very recent studies. The mutations are supposed to weaken the virus, over time. I am really looking forwards to studies that detail how the mutations affect the cytokines storms and resulting ards.

Fuck man. He tells you he’s depressed watching patients die and wants to change the subject and you drop a bunch more science. Well within your rights but maybe poorly timed. He’s just venting.

 

[Bluewater272]

Oh, the AAPS. LOL!

 

[tabbibus]

It’s fine. If I don’t wanna talk I just don’t log on. Thanks for caring tho. Much appreciated.

WRT pepcid, all our ventilated patients are on Pepcid for stress ulcer prophylaxis. It’s routine. Folks still dying.

WRT mutations, they tend to make virus weaker. Tend is the key word. Not always.

Stay safe y’all.

 

[Speedling]

It’s fine. If I don’t wanna talk I just don’t log on. Thanks for caring tho. Much appreciated.

WRT pepcid, all our ventilated patients are on Pepcid for stress ulcer prophylaxis. It’s routine. Folks still dying.

WRT mutations, they tend to make virus weaker. Tend is the key word. Not always.

Stay safe y’all.

Weaker is better!
I am confused how a vaccine seems in people's heads the answer to all prayers.

Don't the antibodies or immune or whatever only last like 3-6 months?
Like we gonna have to vaccinate every 3 months?

 

[GTBRMC]

I've watched Dr John Campbell's near-daily video series on COVID-19 since early February. He is no-nonsense, fact-based, apolitical, and calls them as he sees them.

His bio, copied from Amazon:

About John Campbell
Dr. John Campbell is a Senior Lecturer in Nursing studies at the University of Cumbria. He has been a clinical nurse and a nurse tutor for over 30 years. In addition to writing books, he has also produced a range of videos and podcasts on various health and nursing related topics. As well as selling his materials in the Western countries, many are distributed at no cost, or low cost, to students in poorer countries.

His videos are well worth the time and he has covered nearly every facet of this complex pandemic very thoroughly, yet approachably, over the last six months or so.

Today, he changed his opinion on the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine on reducing COVID-19 based on a newly published Belgian study (and other studies from France, New York, ). He points out that this Belgian study differed from many of the earlier studies in that it used a much lower dosage than those previous studies (the Belgian study used doses inline with British National Formulary dosage levels for other uses of HCQ)..

As always, he provides links for all studies and discusses their strengths and weaknesses - as he sees them - and works to maintain neutrality in his analysis.