DIY Wake shaper ideas

[0627Devildog]

But even more difficult issue, I think, is that even if you get a wedge device to do what it is intended to do - induce delayed convergence (by pushing water away on the non-surf side) - you now have a different problem: the boat is going to steer towards the non-surf side and you need to compensate that by... turning your jets towards the surf side... (and strait into the wake - basically ruining the surf surface). The JCYAMAHA wedge may be able to alleviate that but may need to be adjusted and it is far from ideal - ideally you would want the jet-wash to "collaborate" with a side-wedge (shaper) to induce delayed convergence.

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I am not sure I agree in this . . . My understanding is this device would go opposite surf side, pushing the bow towards the side it is mounted since it is kicking the stern over to the surf side. In my estimation, to compensate you would actually have to steer the jets AWAY from surf side to stay straight. . . . Unless I am mistaken.

 

[haknslash]

@swatski is correct you have to counter steer and this will put the jet aimed at the surf, so there is a balance involved. I have video in my other thread that I'll repost here. I'll try and shoot more angles including steering next time I'm out.

 

[swatski]

I agreed with "Swatski is correct". Hahahaha.
@haknslash You need to figure this out, man! We need all the help we can get.

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[0627Devildog]

@swatski is correct you have to counter steer and this will put the jet aimed at the surf, so there is a balance involved. I have video in my other thread that I'll repost here. I'll try and shoot more angles including steering next time I'm out.

Wouldn't a delayed convergence wedge on the starboard side, push the stern to port and bow to starboard. . . . .?

 

[haknslash]

Whatever side you install it on it will pull the boat towards that side. It creates a good bit of drag. So if you want to go straight you begin to turn the wheel opposite that side which means the jet wash gets aimed towards the surf (opposite wedge) side. It's not a full lock opposite steer or anything but definitely requires counter steering or you will just go in a large circle. It's just a trade off with jets but it's something you can balance out.

I won't be able to hit the water for at least another 2 weeks but I will try and get footage of the steering effect.

 

[0627Devildog]

Ok, ok, ok. . . . I got it now. . . . After a total brain fart I realized to go to port in order to counter motion to starboard I laid out in my scenario above, the nozzle turns towards the wave (not away, like I was thinking originally). I (incorrectly) envisioned the nozzle turning opposite the steering wheel direction for some reason.

This is proof of 2 things. . . .:

1. I was wrong

AND

2. There is a first time for everything. ; )

 

[CBallr]

Been some time since anyone has posted an update to this.?? @haknslash or anyone else made any progress? I saw the youtube video with the custom ballast bags. Seems like that is winning out over the wedge.

Not sure if anyone thought of this yet, but what about countering the drag with another stick on wedge on the other side of the boat. Maybe a smaller wedge or in a different position up the hull as to not impact the wake. That could potentially help counter the steering issue.

I'd also be curious what impact a thinner wedge with less drag would have.

So far, I am leaning towards trying a couple fatsac bricks tied together, one on each level of the platform. It looked almost as if the big bag in the boat didn't help much and listed the boat way too far. Being able to surf on my 195 would be HUGE!!!

 

[SCP1]

Been some time since anyone has posted an update to this.?? @haknslash or anyone else made any progress? I saw the youtube video with the custom ballast bags. Seems like that is winning out over the wedge.

Not sure if anyone thought of this yet, but what about countering the drag with another stick on wedge on the other side of the boat. Maybe a smaller wedge or in a different position up the hull as to not impact the wake. That could potentially help counter the steering issue.

I'd also be curious what impact a thinner wedge with less drag would have.

So far, I am leaning towards trying a couple fatsac bricks tied together, one on each level of the platform. It looked almost as if the big bag in the boat didn't help much and listed the boat way too far. Being able to surf on my 195 would be HUGE!!!

I had a 450 bag on the back and it was ok. Then I had 250 pounds of human ballast move to the rear corner seat in the boat and it was a winner with a slight turn. Unfortunately the video I took is all blurry and we needed another person to drive the boat so I could surf with my human ballast in the rear corner. Honestly I would buy the 19’ custom bag as it will make your life easier (in regards to tying it and keeping the weight to one side) and then buy a bag to put in your rear compartment. The only reason I have not ordered a 19’ bag is I already had this bag and pump (and now realize due to the fittings I need a new pump as well). I am confident you don’t need shaper with a 19’ as long as you can turn and don’t need to go straight. Trust me the wave was clean and unreal (I never expected this big of wave out of my 195).

 

[haknslash]

@SCP1 hehe I told yall that wave was a winner . Pics and vids don't really convey the size of it either as I'm sure you know now lol. You can hear my voice in my video though when I was I got out of the way of a passing boat and then first added in some slight turn surf side and it just appeared like magic and I was like "woohoohooo" . I definitely think it's surfable.

Notice how once you had your human ballast in the corner the boat wanted to turn naturally. This kind of got me thinking of trying the shaper again. My thinking was maybe the bag will help offset some of the counter steering that was needed with the shaper. I broke my brackets for my shaper when I tossed it on the floor cleaning out the boat last year so I'll need to make another set but I think i'm going to try and take another stab at it. I don't expect positive results but I must try

 

[DavisAR195]

View attachment 78804
I had a 450 bag on the back and it was ok. Then I had 250 pounds of human ballast move to the rear corner seat in the boat and it was a winner with a slight turn. Unfortunately the video I took is all blurry and we needed another person to drive the boat so I could surf with my human ballast in the rear corner. Honestly I would buy the 19’ custom bag as it will make your life easier (in regards to tying it and keeping the weight to one side) and then buy a bag to put in your rear compartment. The only reason I have not ordered a 19’ bag is I already had this bag and pump (and now realize due to the fittings I need a new pump as well). I am confident you don’t need shaper with a 19’ as long as you can turn and don’t need to go straight. Trust me the wave was clean and unreal (I never expected this big of wave out of my 195).

Were you able to go ropeless?

 

[jcyamaharider]

When someone asks if another person can go ropeless or not is kind of a useless question. There are many different factors that are not the same. Board, rider skill, condition of water, carving the wave, pumping the crap out of the board. What one person can go roepless on may not be the same for everyone. Come Shelbyville gathering I hope to bring a 19ft custom transom bag and video me going ropeless behind a 19ft boat with just this bag.

 

[SCP1]

Were you able to go ropeless?

Keep in mind I needed one more person to drive the boat as there was only 3 of us and one was my 7 year old son. I can tell you that if I would of had one more person you could go ropeless if you know what your doing.

 

[DavisAR195]

Keep in mind I needed one more person to drive the boat as there was only 3 of us and one was my 7 year old son. I can tell you that if I would of had one more person you could go ropeless if you know what your doing.

Thank you for the follow up and not considering the question useless.

 

[thefortunes]

When someone asks if another person can go ropeless or not is kind of a useless question. There are many different factors that are not the same. Board, rider skill, condition of water, carving the wave, pumping the crap out of the board. What one person can go roepless on may not be the same for everyone. Come Shelbyville gathering I hope to bring a 19ft custom transom bag and video me going ropeless behind a 19ft boat with just this bag.

Agreed. My daughter has been ropeless behind our SX230 without any ballast.

 

[Scottie]

When someone asks if another person can go ropeless or not is kind of a useless question. There are many different factors that are not the same. Board, rider skill, condition of water, carving the wave, pumping the crap out of the board. What one person can go ropeless on may not be the same for everyone. Come Shelbyville gathering I hope to bring a 19ft custom transom bag and video me going ropeless behind a 19ft boat with just this bag.

Definitely agree. To add to this, "surfing ropeless" does not necessarily mean a nice surfable wave, in my opinion. I see pictures and videos often of people "going ropeless", and while it's true that they are surfing without a rope, sometimes the wave is non-existent, and they're constantly pumping in a cloud of foamy water. While this may be plenty for some, and of course to each their own, my idea of "surfing ropeless" is a clean wave, with a pocket at least large enough to move forward and back a bit on the wave, without washing out. For me personally, standing on the board in the same spot just following the boat, isn't tons of fun.

 

[jcyamaharider]

Thank you for the follow up and not considering the question useless.

Boy did you take that wrong or what. My point is who cares if they can do it or not, what matters is if YOU CAN. Sure it will be possible but it will take time and you need to get out there and do it. A+B does not always equal C. So put a bag on the deck, grab a board and a rope and have fun.

 

[DavisAR195]

Boy did you take that wrong or what. My point is who cares if they can do it or not, what matters is if YOU CAN. Sure it will be possible but it will take time and you need to get out there and do it. A+B does not always equal C. So put a bag on the deck, grab a board and a rope and have fun.

It appears I hit on a sensitive subject when asking another member if they could go ropeless or not. I care and that's why I asked the question since we have similar boats and truly the whole purpose of the forums. Most people with the 19 footers have difficulty going ropeless and were always searching for new ideas, again the whole purpose for this thread.

 

[haknslash]

The thing is you could have a wave plenty big enough to go ropeless but it takes skill to learn. You have to learn how to edge the board by putting weight on your toes and heel when needed. No doubt the strength of the wave is important but the skill of going ropeless is equally important. And then you have other variables such as the board, rider weight, etc. Even people on dedicated Wake boats can struggle to go ropeless and their waves are usually much larger and stronger than the average ballasted jet boat. That's because the riders skill hasn't learned how to ride the wave yet and not really because the wave isn't there. Some of it could be their board or a combination of board and skill.

FWIW I don't think @jcyamaharider meant anything negative. We have a big gathering coming up so I'll have plenty of people to get the boat setup for s good test. Of course I'll have footage. What I can tell you @DavisAR195 is that if you want to make a nice wave on the 19' Yamaha then the new custom swim deck bag is a great starting point

 

[jcyamaharider]

It appears I hit on a sensitive subject when asking another member if they could go ropeless or not. I care and that's why I asked the question since we have similar boats and truly the whole purpose of the forums. Most people with the 19 footers have difficulty going ropeless and were always searching for new ideas, again the whole purpose for this thread.

If you want to argue I am not your guy, I just do things and I know things. I get 50 emails a day asking questions about Wake surfing behind these boats from all over the country. Take my advise or not I really don't care. 2 things you should know about me that pretty much the entire board knows. I am a straight up and truthful guy and I want to see you guys love the boats that you have purchased. Am I a little abrasive at times? Probably, but you can either use that to look at the positive side of things or the negative side of things.

I am a constructive criticism type of guy.

Here you go, I did it 4 years ago:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/ropeless-behind-my-sx190.2980/

 

[swatski]

@DavisAR195 Your question is totally fine, but there are many answers. I'm with you on that, ropeless to me is - pocket big enough to push an average dude riding an average board. Definitely doable behind a 195 but not trivial.

Just for some context, I'm on my second Yamaha JB and 5th year, I just went ropeless for the first time this week. Those things take time to finagle (with our boats).


@jcyamaharider is the nicest gentleman, but don't forget he's from a "Show me" state, lol.

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