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Impeler Shaft Play / Intermediate Bering Condition Verification

pcriley

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You might be able to get the new bearings on the shaft by putting the bearings in the oven @ 400F and putting the shaft in the freezer for a few hours.
 

Konnie

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Great progress indeed! Good job getting that out.

A couple of notes from my side...
1) Last item you need to worry about right now, but when you reassemble, before you do--you need to re-silicone that intake! Looks like you are missing a lot of gelcoat there... That can't be good.
2) The impeller is impressive. Given how messed up the bearings are, etc., this impeller looks MUCH better than mine did.
3) I am noting some scoring on the shaft farther up toward the splines. Anyone have ideas or concerns about that?
4) No experience with removing the bearings on impellers, but when I was working on cars... Pressing was always preferred--just not usually possible for lack of tools. Therefore, you hammered at it (and then risked messing something up). I wish I could tell you that I thought that the penetrating oil would help.
5) The reason I think that one of my intermediate bearings is blown is when I got to this point and looked down that shaft hole, I could see grease leaking out into the hole (and there was grease on the shaft). I only saw that one on side; not on the other. I don't see that type of thing on yours... Coda: I wound up not fixing mine, just putting it back together and resolving to watch it closely.

Not as helpful as I am sure others will be able to offer, but that is what I got. Keep us updated on the progress!
Truly appreciate your input.
Would you mind elaborating a bit more one #1, re-silicone the intake?
The impeller does look decent but one can feel that the edges have been wearing some against the housing. The edges do have some bur.
Got a ballpark price from local Yamaha store of $600 to rebuild both pump units.
Wonder if it would be better to buy new impeller, shaft and housing sets already assembled.
Your thoughts? Thanks again.
 

tdonoughue

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Sure. For #1, when I look at your picture, it looks like you are missing gelcoat on the port and starboard sides of the intake--right there where the hull meets the metal. Not sure why--I don't think I have seen anything like that before. It may be an optical illusion (photography trick?), but that looks wrong to me. The intake (from before the grate, up to the impeller) should be smooth--no gaps and no roughness. Otherwise you will get cavitation before the impeller and the impeller will not be able to pull the water as well.

So, when re-assembling, before you put all of that mess back in, get a tube of silicone caulk and fill any gaps and cover any roughness. On the exterior of the grate, cover all of the bolts that attach the grate to the hull. Did that all on mine recently (and mine were not what I thought was bad--a couple of gaps and whatnot) and it made an appreciable difference.

As to your impeller, those burs you can take out with a file. When I pulled mine the first time, there were gouges out of the leading edges and all sorts of mess. If you have wear against the ring, the ring probably is starting to corrode (it corrodes, expands, and impacts the impeller) and should be replaced. Many like to replace with an aftermarket plastic wear ring--it is quieter and does not swell like that. But if you get something caught between the ring and the impeller (stick, wood, etc.), it can damage the ring.

As to the rebuild... This is a lot of a personal preference. I don't even think the $600 is unreasonable (if it includes parts). I like playing with mine and enjoy fixing it (and learning along the way), so I would probably do it myself. Others are not so much a wrench-head type and just want to get back on the water and not mess with it. I think if you bought the whole thing again, it would be much more. And I don't think you need new impellers or probably a shaft. Just some pressing and bearing work. So, if you are up for the adventure and have access to a press (the only thing better than having a press is having a friend with a press), I would try it myself. If not, I would go with the rebuild option.

Thoughts! Worth everything you paid for them... :)
 

Konnie

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Sure. For #1, when I look at your picture, it looks like you are missing gelcoat on the port and starboard sides of the intake--right there where the hull meets the metal. Not sure why--I don't think I have seen anything like that before. It may be an optical illusion (photography trick?), but that looks wrong to me. The intake (from before the grate, up to the impeller) should be smooth--no gaps and no roughness. Otherwise you will get cavitation before the impeller and the impeller will not be able to pull the water as well.

So, when re-assembling, before you put all of that mess back in, get a tube of silicone caulk and fill any gaps and cover any roughness. On the exterior of the grate, cover all of the bolts that attach the grate to the hull. Did that all on mine recently (and mine were not what I thought was bad--a couple of gaps and whatnot) and it made an appreciable difference.

As to your impeller, those burs you can take out with a file. When I pulled mine the first time, there were gouges out of the leading edges and all sorts of mess. If you have wear against the ring, the ring probably is starting to corrode (it corrodes, expands, and impacts the impeller) and should be replaced. Many like to replace with an aftermarket plastic wear ring--it is quieter and does not swell like that. But if you get something caught between the ring and the impeller (stick, wood, etc.), it can damage the ring.

As to the rebuild... This is a lot of a personal preference. I don't even think the $600 is unreasonable (if it includes parts). I like playing with mine and enjoy fixing it (and learning along the way), so I would probably do it myself. Others are not so much a wrench-head type and just want to get back on the water and not mess with it. I think if you bought the whole thing again, it would be much more. And I don't think you need new impellers or probably a shaft. Just some pressing and bearing work. So, if you are up for the adventure and have access to a press (the only thing better than having a press is having a friend with a press), I would try it myself. If not, I would go with the rebuild option.

Thoughts! Worth everything you paid for them... :)
Thanks again for the input!! Very helpful.
Pulled the other jet pump off the boat.
I might as well re-build both pumps while I’m at it and the boat ramps are closed here in Florida.
This one came off very easy.
Bearings feels good and look good, I think?
Any opinion about the color of the grease?
I’ve ordered new bearings, seals, O-rings for both sides plus an impeller shaft holder so I can get the impellers off the shafts.
Both pump houses have some corrosion so will most likely replace those as well.
 

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Scottintexas

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tdonoughue

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The grease there looks really fine to me. But, like @Scottintexas said, while you have it apart and are ordering bearings, it is wise to get 2 and do both. You need to regrease anyway, replace the seals anyway, etc.
 

Konnie

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Downloaded the service manual today for the 2005 / 2006 AR/SX230. Mine is a 2006AR.
The service manual show the impeller with distinct marks to be the port side impeller and the one with no distinct marks to be the starboard side.
Mine impellers were installed reversed....
My distinct marked impeller has the same stamped part number as the distinct marked impeller in the manual 6B500.
My not distinct marked impeller is marked 68N10.
The not distinct marked impeller In the service manual is marked 58N00.
Per service manual the distinct marked impeller has a slightly higher pitch, 18.1 vs 15.1 degrees.
Visually that appears to be correct but might be visual illusion / confirmation bias.

Is the service manual wrong or were the impellers swapped at installation?
If service manual is correct I’m thinking to installed the impellers per manual but keep the shaft at their original locations as they may have been worn-in at their original locations.
Thought on this?
65CEAB25-7F2A-40CE-BD10-3582A163D409.png
 

tdonoughue

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Oh, @swatski ? Would you mind dropping by for a consult? He knows everything there is to know about impellers. I haven't heard of a swap yet, I don't think, but I suppose anything is possible. I doubt the manual is wrong. Do you have a typo above? Looks like the manual says port is 6P600 and starboard is 6P610, no?
 

Konnie

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Oh, @swatski ? Would you mind dropping by for a consult? He knows everything there is to know about impellers. I haven't heard of a swap yet, I don't think, but I suppose anything is possible. I doubt the manual is wrong. Do you have a typo above? Looks like the manual says port is 6P600 and starboard is 6P610, no?
I should have been more clear, I’m referring to the numbers “stamped“ on the impellers. Need to expand the pasted image from the manual in my post above to clearly see the “stamps” on the impellers in the manual.
 

Scottintexas

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This is from a 2005 manual, it agrees with the 2007 manual,
I would guess your impellers were installed incorrectly,

The mark on the impeller should either be 6P600 or 6P610

If you have a different mark on your impeller please post a picture of it,

I would guess having an older boat at some point someone pulled the impellers and not realizing the difference put them back in wrong,
it could also be


1588174111934.png
 

Konnie

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see pics below.
I’m referring to the numbers “stamped“ on the impellers. Need to expand the pasted image from the manual in my post above to clearly see the “stamps” on the impellers in the manual.
One side agrees with the manual, the distinct marked impeller. The other side does not.
3B3D6F49-96A2-4E21-AEED-C4B92C51D3F1.jpeg421B8FC0-A4E2-4B29-8CCE-18B106CFCC0C.jpeg
 

Scottintexas

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I didn't notice the "part number" was different than the impeller number and is even more confusing because when you look it up at yamahasportsplaza the Yamaha part number for the impeller is different from both of those ??

I'm sorry I don't want to add confusion to the process because I'm taking about different year models although they're the same generation,
my 07 has the same page in the manual and the picture below is BuckBuck's 08 which should also be the same which is from his post here and you can clearly read the 6P600 and 6P610 not the stamp number noted in the manual,

I'm trying to have my daughter find my OEM impellers at the house for a picture because I'm almost positive mine are like Buck's,

either way I wouldn't worry about stamping as long as it's 6P600=6B500 or 6P610=58N00

but,

manual...........................................yours
port 6P600 = 6B500.................6B500
stbd 6P610 = 58N00................68N10 ????

I think you have the wrong impeller for 6P610

I also found this post at YJB that talked about 68N10 but it wasn't visible for visitors to read,


 
Last edited:

Scottintexas

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1588181790639.png

The above is from yamahasportsplaza for a 2004 AR230,
the starboard impeller is listed as 68N....10..

I don't have a 2004 manual so I don't know what the pitch is supposed to be in 2004 vs 2006 boats,
 

Scottintexas

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The 2005 manual
pitch shows

1588188149350.png

The 2004 manual for 998cc engine on found online,
pitch

1588188281333.png


So I really think you have the wrong pitched impeller




.
 

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Konnie

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View attachment 117336

The above is from yamahasportsplaza for a 2004 AR230,
the starboard impeller is listed as 68N....10..

I don't have a 2004 manual so I don't know what the pitch is supposed to be in 2004 vs 2006 boats,
Really appreciated your help on this. Will read more in detail.
 

Konnie

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So the conclusion is that I had the
2004 model starboard impeller installed on the port side and
The 2006 port side impeller installed on the starboard side.
Wow!!
I will reinstall the 2006 port side impeller with 18.1 degree pitch on the port side (correct side, correct year with correct pitch).
I will reinstall the 2004 starboard side impeller on the starboard side. I will have 16.3 degree pitch impeller on the starboard side instead of the 15.1 degree pitch impeller (2004 impeller pitch vs 2006 impeller pitch).
Or should I buy a new 2006 starboard side impeller with the correct pitch? How much of a difference does the 1.2 degree pitch make (16.3 vs 15.1)?

Thanks again for the help / research!!
 

anmut

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So the conclusion is that I had the
2004 model starboard impeller installed on the port side and
The 2006 port side impeller installed on the starboard side.
Wow!!
I will reinstall the 2006 port side impeller with 18.1 degree pitch on the port side (correct side, correct year with correct pitch).
I will reinstall the 2004 starboard side impeller on the starboard side. I will have 16.3 degree pitch impeller on the starboard side instead of the 15.1 degree pitch impeller (2004 impeller pitch vs 2006 impeller pitch).
Or should I buy a new 2006 starboard side impeller with the correct pitch? How much of a difference does the 1.2 degree pitch make (16.3 vs 15.1)?

Thanks again for the help / research!!
Awesome news - I would stick to OEM specs on pitch for sure.
 

Scottintexas

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Or should I buy a new 2006 starboard side impeller with the correct pitch? How much of a difference does the 1.2 degree pitch make (16.3 vs 15.1)?

Thanks again for the help / research!!
I don't know about pitch, it obviously didn't cause you much issue before, @swatski would probably give you a better opinion,

For $135 I'd buy a new impeller, you're already replacing the bearings why cheap out at this point and risk performance issues or having to eventually replace it, fix it once, the right way and proceed with confidence, at least if you have additional issues you won't be questioning it,



.
 

Konnie

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I don't know about pitch, it obviously didn't cause you much issue before, @swatski would probably give you a better opinion,

For $135 I'd buy a new impeller, you're already replacing the bearings why cheap out at this point and risk performance issues or having to eventually replace it, fix it once, the right way and proceed with confidence, at least if you have additional issues you won't be questioning it,



.
I think I will do that, buy new impeller with correct pitch.
Meeting up with the previous and original owner of the boat this evening to see what the history of this impeller swap / year conundrum is.
Cheers!!
 

Konnie

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Looked up a new impeller here for 2006 AR230 here:



Impeller numbers matches up with what is stamped on my impellers and show 16.3 and 17.3 pitch.

This would suggest I have the right impellers....So is the service manual wrong or what am I missing??
Very confusing??


D3B70D07-67D4-4F0C-BBC7-8DAF568B2DC8.png
 
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