Long term effects of aftermarket fins

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Come on the keel has nothing to do with the rudder other than a way to mount and shield it ,the forward fin does the same thing with or without the keel.

 

[swatski]

now take a look at this picture of the rudder that is on your new boat it is operated by the nozzle and the cable. the arrow has nothing to do with the rudder it was just on the picture I borrowed now look at the lower portion of the rudder that extends forward of the pivot point. Yamaha has a rudder in the water operating all the time and they have a form of a power steering fixture added to reduce the stress level caused by the rudder.

This looks the same as a FANG with an AK or an Ultimate.

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[subysti]

I know with my TV's they are only down when at slow speeds and then move up at speed so I cant see them adding any more stress on the steering system. I think thats what all this is about???

 

[swatski]

So far Julian has chimed in, so we have one relevant data point (and a reassuring one at that).

Seriously???? One data point?
You have had at least 10 responses by the time you posted this comment.
I'm loosing interest.


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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

This is so stupid if I just started building steering a year ago or maybe two but after 15 years with my record please, just buy some other steering if you do not trust my ability serious there is nothing on the market that can do what my steering does and nothing that has my track record so I'm done. I never mince words and never will, don't bother doing your research and insulting my work and my motive " the all mighty dollar" wrong person to say that to!
I will not sell you steering period and if you want to return the ez lock please do. I already shipped it. So just send it back and I will refund your money in an instant I'm done. This is just a waste of my time.

 

[Chillypilot]

Perhaps you should ask yourself how much damage are you going to do to your boat without steering enhancements.

Before I purchased my CJS I struggled getting in and out of the marina, docking and getting on the trailer. It was jut a matter of time before I damaged the boat.

I've added several upgrades to my boat but the CJS is hands down the best. No more struggles in tight spaces and the boat gets pulled around less when pulling skiers, wakeboarders, tube etc.

BTW fins deployed all the time, no damage.

 

[scokill]

This is reminding me of the good ol' days at the other site......

 

[octavio3311]

OMG! Where's the popcorn emoji?

And for all the engineer degrees out here - I'll fix it when it breaks, cause you didn't get it right the first time!!!!

Sorry - Couldn't help it. No offense meant - hope none was taken - just teasing and poking fun.
I say that at work every chance I get. Goes over real well in a room full of architects and engineers while we review prints for a new building.

 

[octavio3311]

This is reminding me of the good ol' days at the other site......

Yeah. I agree!

 

[GTBRMC]

@ajvigants -- I had original Cobra Jet Steering fins on my two-engine 2008 SX-230 from the time I bought it new in 2009 until I upgraded to the larger Cobra Jet Steering Ultimates in 2016.

I have a BSME and worked as an engineer for years, though I have been in management for many years since (full disclosure.) I do understand your concerns. They are valid thoughts, I had the same concerns initially.

My experience is the fins work as advertised and I have noticed no adverse effects. As I mentioned, I upgraded to bigger fins after six years using the original fins. As part of annual preventive maintenance, I inspect all the linkages, I look for wear, and I concentrate on moving parts - like the steering assemblies at the pumps. After years of seeing near zero indications of wear (let alone excess wear), I upgraded to the larger fins without concern.

You will not find the type of engineering data you seek, unfortunately. You have already and you should continue to seek anecdotal information. Your stated intent to try the boat without fins and decide if you like the boat's handling as-is then determine if you'd like more steering input is a very solid plan.

I do not abuse my boat, nor do I baby it in operation. Approx half my hours are on Lake Michigan, so she has seen some real chop, and the forces that come witb it.

Jeff has a huge amount of experience building, selling, and continually improving his products. He does real R&D, he does field tests, validation and durability studies, etc., typically using volunteer boaters from this site and/or other similar sites for the tests. He is 100% straightforward in his communications, and in his business approach. I trust his products, they have performed well for me for years. I do not know Jeff, other than product purchase & usage guidance correspondence.

JetBoatPilot also sells an aftermarket steering product. I have not used those, so I cannot add to any discussion about them. I have bought other products from JBP, with very good results.

Good luck in your decision making process and enjoy your boat.

 

[ajvigants]

Thank you, GTBRMC for a constructive reply.

Since my question has provoked quite a temper tantrum from Jeff I can only assume that I either wounded a fragile ego or touched a raw nerve. My original post ended with an extremely benign and reasonable question: "So what I am wondering is what the people who have had aftermarket fins for many years (especially those that are deployed at all speeds) have experienced in terms of wear and longevity of the related components?" This was a reasonable question and it was NOT directed at any of the fin manufacturers - I was specifically asking long time users. What manufacturer would think that being condescending and insulting was a good strategy in fielding such a product question even if it had been directed at them? Wow!

I wanted to beat the underbrush to find out if there was a downside to these things. If a lot of users jumped in (like GTBRMC and Dennis and Julian) saying that ""I've used these for years, low speed and high, and nothing bad happened", I'd probably have gone for the Viper design. Looks clean, no moving parts, metal rather than plastic. Lots to like. What I mostly expected was an anti-climatic letdown along the lines of a collective, "we're not sure - there just isn't enough data", which would have left me still wondering about Viper vs Thrust Vectors. And, of course, if there was a rousing chorus of "this screwed up my boat - run far away" then I'd have tried to sort out whether it was high speed use or low that caused problems and decided from there.

But since Jeff will no longer sell me anything I guess that my decision tree just got that much simpler.

Good night, all.

 

[swatski]

My original post ended with an extremely benign and reasonable question

I'm not sure I would call "I'd like better handling, but not at the cost of wrecking the boat prematurely" an extremely benign segue into that question.... And then you proceed to insult Jeff for telling it like it is, basically?

I never met Jeff, he strikes me as a strait shooter. As far as jet boat steering I'm pretty sure he knows what the hell he is doing.

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[Ilmmct]

Sorry to re-hijack back to the original poll. 2 boats (2008 SX230) and (2012 242 LS) both with after market fins, no damage to either of my boats.

 

[props2you]

My 2010 242 Limited had the original Cobra Jet fins from day one and never had an issue...

This pic is with 7 seasons of use:

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

It appears that there is a way to end this once and for all, The nozzles are made to deal with huge stress created by the jet pump , each time you turn your steering fins or no fins you are redirecting a very strong water jet over and over year after year. Yamaha uses a 8mm bolt with a small stainless steel collar, this collar is designed to allow the nozzle to float surprisingly it is not a bushing so it is locked down against the jet pump forcing cone. Your nozzle has two holes, one on top and one on the bottom the bolts and collars go through these holes and allow the nozzle to turn freely and float loosely. Again there is absolutely no bushing between the collar and the nozzle castings this would cause some people to question the very design, however logical people just look at the years of results and understand it works.
So if you want to see if your nozzle has any unusual wear it is quite simple, the holes in the nozzles and fairly close to the od of the collars on the bolts, so if you simply grab a nozzle and push it in toward the boat and then pull it back away from the boat and you do not feel a lot of play or feel it clunk on changing directions you are just fine, no need to do anything else.
On the other hand if you feel a clunk you may want to remove the bolts that the nozzle pivots on and inspect the size of the two holes for excess wear. The original holes are approximately 1/2 inch ID if your holes have enlarged to approximately 9/16 or larger you may wish to look into placing a bushing etc. in those holes to remove that play . if the holes wear more than 9/16 I would think it time to replace the nozzles or use some other remedy. Normally the holes will not show any excess wear.
If you do remove your nozzle pivot bolts for any reason, steering or otherwise you must remember to use thread locking compound when you reinstall those bolts or you take a very serious chance of having one work loose and fall out. Should this happen during use you will not know it fell out until you place the controls in reverse once you do that the water exiting the pump hits the reverse hood and is redirected out the bottom of the nozzle, the force of the pump hitting the nozzle with only one bolt securing it will usually cause the nozzle to break off. Again steering has nothing to do with it.
Some people spend a lot of time and energy working hard to improve the jet boating experience and those people really enjoy hearing back from people who appreciate the end results of their efforts . I have no doubt I have had a huge positive impact on jet boating and p w c's. However there are others who are clueless about jet boats and the worst of those are the ones who don't know they are clueless.
So now you people know how to check the nozzles and be assured that your steering is not causing any problems with it. Now I have a lot to do today and I hope people will understand that I really don't have time for this sort of nonsense I have no problem with sincere questions I do have a problem with people trying to impress you with their so called expertise . You have no idea how much time, research and resources I put into my products.
And you will never see me kissing anyone's butt to sell something. 3 huge patents and a fourth one pending building steering for 15 years should say it all.

 

[Evil Sports]

Yeah. I agree!

Cause I see you here

 

[props2you]

 

[Bill D]

My boat has had Thrust Vectors installed for over 300 hours with no ill effects.

 

[spatty99]

I'm a mechanical engineer and my $.02 is that yes, eventually steering fins will have a detrimental effect on the steering assembly. But none of us or the rest of the boat will survive that long to see it.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

haaaa finally have the new web page up and running http://cobrajetsteering.com/ Now back to our previously scheduled entertainment. You guys just carry on I have other things to take care of.