Long term effects of aftermarket fins

[Bruce]

My son in law is the one who was building my web page , he was very ill and needed a kidney transplant and he still needs a pancreas transplant.

Wow, in that case he is doing very well. I hope he continues to improve.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

thank you

 

[ajvigants]

The irony is that when I started this thread I was strongly inclined towards the CJS Viper system, (for reasons stated in an earlier post). But it seemed prudent to ask users with plenty of hours their experiences before deciding. 5 minutes to post the question and then wait for some confirmation that it was the right decision. Simple enough and, frankly, one of the great benefits of forums like this existing. One of Jeff's first responses included the challenge to "ask his customers", which seemed odd in itself because that was EXACTLY what I was doing via the only means I could think of - posting on this forum. Instead of letting his population of users close the sale for him, he lost the sale to me, and likely a few others, with his behavior.

Anyway, this is as pointless as telling Trump to stop tweeting. I do admire the passion he has for his product, but the tone of his responses is generally defensive and too often insulting. I doubt he'll ever be able to see that himself - he is just not wired that way, I guess. It is a form of bullying, and like Trevor, I think it is appropriate to call him out on it. I am voting with my wallet and this thread will be here for a long time to help future potential customers to decide if he is someone they wish to support.

I agree with the post which stated that his best strategy would be to engage someone else to interact with the public. I am not suggesting PR or BS, just someone to act as a buffer. "Telling it like it is" is fine, but being rude and condescending is not. Since he cannot seem to control it, he should take a step back.

For what it is worth, the new web site is certainly a big improvement, so please tell your son-in-law good job and give him my best wishes for his full recovery.

 

[swatski]

The irony is that when I started this thread I was strongly inclined towards the CJS Viper system, (for reasons stated in an earlier post). But it seemed prudent to ask users with plenty of hours their experiences before deciding. 5 minutes to post the question and then wait for some confirmation that it was the right decision. Simple enough and, frankly, one of the great benefits of forums like this existing. One of Jeff's first responses included the challenge to "ask his customers", which seemed odd in itself because that was EXACTLY what I was doing via the only means I could think of - posting on this forum. Instead of letting his population of users close the sale for him, he lost the sale to me, and likely a few others, with his behavior.

Anyway, this is as pointless as telling Trump to stop tweeting. I do admire the passion he has for his product, but the tone of his responses is generally defensive and too often insulting. I doubt he'll ever be able to see that himself - he is just not wired that way, I guess. It is a form of bullying, and like Trevor, I think it is appropriate to call him out on it. I am voting with my wallet and this thread will be here for a long time to help future potential customers to decide if he is someone they wish to support.

I agree with the post which stated that his best strategy would be to engage someone else to interact with the public. I am not suggesting PR or BS, just someone to act as a buffer. "Telling it like it is" is fine, but being rude and condescending is not. Since he cannot seem to control it, he should take a step back.

For what it is worth, the new web site is certainly a big improvement, so please tell your son-in-law good job and give him my best wishes for his full recovery.

--

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I will take one to go with nothing on it canoe looks pretty good too

Wow pretty interesting stuff here
https://www.google.com/search?q=canoe&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyrMethe3TAhXFZCYKHTkED-IQ_AUIBygC&biw=1250&bih=490

 

[swatski]

And this is the exact type of tone I referred to when speaking with @Cobra Jet Steering LLC He just sent me this:
View attachment 55622
Sorry Jeff, going to call you out. I've tried to be as professional as possible but you sir lack professionalism. He states I "changed" my story as to how the accident happened. I never changed my story, he pushed from a ledge, didn't fall off. I stated it was a great product and letting fellow boaters know to becareful. Below is the exact email chain. Notice the tone difference and concern between his email and mine. Your response today Jeff doesn't surprise me. You might want to consider hiring someone to handle the front end items while you work on the back of the house items because you do not have the gift of gab. And go ahead and save your email response about me not being able to purchase from you in the future because you won't see that order from me regardless.

Email chain:
View attachment 55623
View attachment 55624
View attachment 55622
View attachment 55622

Private conversations are private conversations. My understanding is when I have a private conversation with someone it is private and not meant to be posted publicly.

This is beyond disrespectful.

--

 

[Trevor Shipman]

Private conversations are private conversations. My understanding is when I have a private conversation with someone it is private and not meant to be posted publicly.

This is beyond disrespectful.

--

Ok

 

[ajvigants]

I will take one to go with nothing on it View attachment 55762canoe looks pretty good too

Wow pretty interesting stuff here
https://www.google.com/search?q=canoe&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyrMethe3TAhXFZCYKHTkED-IQ_AUIBygC&biw=1250&bih=490

Good suggestions, Jeff, but I prefer kayaks to canoes. I have 4 (different shapes and purposes) and no room to store more in the boat shed unfortunately. The favorite is my Hobie Tandem Island - gives me an alternative when the wind makes power boating less pleasant and paddling too much work. It is a wet ride, though.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

cool looks like fun but obviously I was joking, however I did sort of really like the see through canoe on the page I posted.

 

[haknslash]

I've always wanted to try a Hobie cat but don't know a damn thing about sailing. One day though...

 

[ajvigants]

I bought the Tandem Island (TI) because our prevailing winds are from the south and our shore looks straight north - so 90% of the time it is dead calm right in front of our house and with a traditional sailboat or catamaran you would have to paddle out a ways to get to the wind. With the TI you use the Mirage drive (pedals) to get to the wind, then they feather (they lie light up against the hull and so produce very little drag) and you sail. You can keep pedalling if you want to add a bit of speed but I am not racing so just enjoy the sound of the water passing the hull and the wind going through the little bit of hair I still have.

Another benefit is that if the wind dies completely, you can pedal home - kind of like having a kicker or trolling motor on a single engine power boat.

Hobie sells it as also being a a traditional kayak (remove the sails and the outriggers) but in my opinion the rotomolded hull is way too heavy to make it a pleasant boat to paddle. Like I said - it is my toy for windy days.

I bought the tandem version so that my wife could join me but I think that if I was doing it over again I might buy the single version (Hobie Adventure Island aka AI) because the TI is heavy enough fully rigged that moving it around is harder and storing it is more difficult

TI is 18'6" and with the rudder a little over 19' and fully rigged 240 lbs

AI is 16'7" and with the rudder a little over 17' and fully rigged 185 lbs

You can add trampolines for passengers (up to about 150 lbs) so if I had an AI I'd probably use it a little more and still be able to take a guest.

Not the same kind of thrill as a power boat but it does get the adrenaline going in higher winds. That said, if you start on light wind days, it is really easy to learn on - you only have to unfurl the sail as much as you feel comfortable with and can always furl it completely and pedal home.

My TI will go around 5-6 knots with moderate pedalling effort from one pedaller.

I highly recommend it. Oh, the AI is car toppable but the TI really wants a trailer.

This video is not me - just want to show what it is like in good wind.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Looks like I am just too old for that sort of hobby, Too dangerous for me, I will just have to stick to the quiet cruising on the pwc's that have my steering on them so I can handle the waves.

 

[ajvigants]

Looks like I am just too old for that sort of hobby, Too dangerous for me, I will just have to stick to the quiet cruising on the pwc's that have my steering on them so I can handle the waves.

Honestly Jeff, if I spend equal amounts of time sailing the TI and riding a ski, the ski takes more out of me. Granted, we have Seadoo Sparks (the only ones narrow enough to fit two of them in the existing lift that was already installed on our pier) and they are so light (and short) that in any sort of chop they pound ones backside into hamburger meat. The outriggers on the boat make it nearly impossible to flip so as long as you manage the amount of sail out there it feels perfectly safe. On the other hand, on a windy day with full sail you can definitely get the adrenaline flowing.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Sparks I ride couches because they are so stable and comfortable and I can get my walker on the back.

 

[mraz72]

I owned a hobie TI, I loved it. My daughter not so much, she complained about the lack of water sports ability, so I sold it for $6500

After reading this thread I have something to add.

If I am in deep water, and I place my arms on the swim platform (in water up to my mid chest, arms on the platform), my legs DO float up under the boat. this could have easily happened when his legs floated up and they clipped something and cut him, whether it was the fins or not is another topic.

The bottom line is, if you want improved steering, put the fins on, don't worry about wear and tear and be careful about your legs floating up and hitting stuff, REGARDLESS if you have the fins on or not.

 

[ajvigants]

I owned a hobie TI, I loved it. My daughter not so much, she complained about the lack of water sports ability, so I sold it for $6500

That is why you need both!

 

[mraz72]

for those here that aren't aware of this craft, it really is pretty awesome, at least I thought so. I am pretty sure the TI can handle rougher water than the 19' yamahas.

 

[Ilmmct]

A non volatile post ... also a Hobie Mirage fan. I have a Tandem Island with a sail kit ... great exercise and a bit quieter than my 242. Great kayaks that are easy to sail ... sorry to hijack or perhaps as a middle child an attempt to have everyone get along

 

[biglar155]

Good suggestions, Jeff, but I prefer kayaks to canoes. I have 4 (different shapes and purposes) and no room to store more in the boat shed unfortunately. The favorite is my Hobie Tandem Island - gives me an alternative when the wind makes power boating less pleasant and paddling too much work. It is a wet ride, though.

View attachment 55767

That looks like more fun that should be legal....

 

[ajvigants]

Finally have my '16 190 FSH and am through the break in period (30 minutes at or below 5000 rpm seemed like forever). First impression is that the articulated keel improves low speed steering compared to the '14 190 that I drove, but it still wants CONSTANT steering input at slow speeds to hold a straight line. Probably no better or worse than our Seadoo Sparks, the difference being that we rarely drive the Sparks slowly for sustained periods of time while the FSH I will fish from . . . Also, around the dock the Sparks are very forgiving and reverse can undo a mistake very quickly, and since they only weigh 400 lbs it is easy to manhandle them. I've docked the FSH (put in lift) 4 times now, each time has been quicker and easier, so I do not think I'd add fins only for docking issues. And at speed I cannot imagine wanting or needing fins . . . . . truth be known it is kind of disappointing that it won't spin out - it already turns almost too well. However I do want to be able to take my hands off the wheel at low speed long enough to check a message on my phone or look at Navionics without looking up 5 seconds later heading in a different direction. I guess Thrust Vectors are probably in my future.

It is also clear, after less than 4 hours, that I will need to spend a good bit of time correcting shoddy manufacturing - this boat leaks like a sieve. I have been keeping the bilge turned off to let the water accumulate so that I can turn it on while paying attention so that I can guesstimate the amount that comes out. My best guess is that it takes on at least a couple of gallons per hour - and that is running in fairly calm water with only a few decelerations hard enough to get much water over the stern. I'll be pulling it out at the end of the week to drag it to T-Top builders for estimates so while on the trailer I'll do a better leak test and also check things out with a boroscope. The sad part is that if they replaced all of the through hull fittings with metal it would only increase manufacturing costs by a few hundred dollars, and would anyone in their right mind object to paying a few hundred more to get that done properly? Shame on Yamaha for that. The stereo and speakers, on the other hand are so anemic that they could have deleted those and I think that most people would not care - you can barely even hear the radio if the engine is running anyway. In fact I'd have paid more to NOT have that stereo and (especially) those speakers since now I am stuck with holes that will not fit what I actually might want. Sigh.