New AR190 - It takes 6K RPM to go 20mph?!

[Maccam26]

96 degree water!?!? Did you bring your rubber duckie and shampoo for a bath?

Yeah I know that lake is heated by a power plant... we stop going there now in the July-Aug-Sept months but it's great in fall days, warm water until November for us. it's really too hot to enjoy in summer.

 

[Phreddei]

We have 18 SX190 . 6000rpm gets about 26- 27ish mph on GPS. Boat has 100 + hours.

 

[grywlfbg]

I didn't notice if you posted your location/altitude. High altitude will affect NA engines. There are tricks you can do to help (different impellers I think). If you are handy I would remove the "ribbon" (spark arrestor) and airbox snorkel.

 

[Seattle-Wind]

We have 18 SX190 . 6000rpm gets about 26- 27ish mph on GPS. Boat has 100 + hours.

Thanks for the reference figures, this is helpful.

 

[Seattle-Wind]

I didn't notice if you posted your location/altitude. High altitude will affect NA engines. There are tricks you can do to help (different impellers I think). If you are handy I would remove the "ribbon" (spark arrestor) and airbox snorkel.

We're at sea-level. In regards to the ribbon delete and other modifications, I don't feel it should be necessary on a brand new boat to do any modifications in order to get adequate performance, the same performance that other members here are seeing and those that Boat Test and other reviewers have posted. Also, I would be very concerned about voiding the warranty with these modifications.

 

[anmut]

We're at sea-level. In regards to the ribbon delete and other modifications, I don't feel it should be necessary on a brand new boat to do any modifications in order to get adequate performance, the same performance that other members here are seeing and those that Boat Test and other reviewers have posted. Also, I would be very concerned about voiding the warranty with these modifications.

I would record top end speed and rpm and compare as there is a mechanical limit you can assume the motor will hit - you might just a reporting issue.

 

[haknslash]

Our new 2019 Yamaha AR190 needs 6,000 RPM to go 20mph. 5,800 RPM is the lowest possible RPM without falling off plane at about 17mph.

Verified by GPS. This is with only 1 person on board, full tank of fuel, calm conditions, no wind, at sea-level. 4 hours on the engine. Jet drive is clean, impeller is free of defects, wear ring is perfect.

Is this model really that underpowered from the factory or is there an inherent defect with my specific boat or engine? The Boat Test graphs of the previous generation AR190 (2018 and older) show that the boat should be going 28.4 mph at 6,000 RPM and that I should be able to go about 20mph at 5,400 RPM.

The idea of running the boat at it's lowest possible cruise speed of only 20mph at 1.2 - 1.4K below redline is very concerning. What happens when I get 3 other people in the boat? Will I even be able to get this thing on plane without WOT?

I was planning on keeping this for 10+ years and saved up for years to buy it, always admiring the boat and design over the years. I'm frankly shocked at how underpowered it is. Our previous boat was a naturally aspirated SeaDoo Speedster 150 4-Tec with 155hp (the lowest powered engine available in that model). I would cruise at 5,000 all day long in that boat at 20+ mph, which was 2.2 - 2.4K below redline. The Speedster felt like it had at least 3-4x the power-to-weight ratio, when it reality it was less than 2x the power-to-weight ratio of the AR190.

I went back and looked at some of my old videos and those numbers seem about right. You have to remember that these boats are not very efficient in terms of staying in plane. It takes a good bit of thrust to keep the boat in plane. Once on plane you can back off a little but not like an IO, outboard or other prop boat. You have to keep the RPM's up to keep the boat up out of the water otherwise they will fall off plan easily. These boats and engines IMO are meant for WOT or just off WOT otherwise they will decelerate and fall off plane very quickly.

See this screen shot. I'm at around 5100 rpm and !2-13 mph or so. At 6k I'd likely be around mid to upper 20's depending on water and wind conditions.



Here is as ten shot at around 5800 rpm and speed likes to be in mid 20's just staying in plane. This is with supercharged 1.8 engine and not N/A.

 

[swatski]

Our new 2019 Yamaha AR190 needs 6,000 RPM to go 20mph. 5,800 RPM is the lowest possible RPM without falling off plane at about 17mph.

Verified by GPS. This is with only 1 person on board, full tank of fuel, calm conditions, no wind, at sea-level. 4 hours on the engine. Jet drive is clean, impeller is free of defects, wear ring is perfect.

Is this model really that underpowered from the factory or is there an inherent defect with my specific boat or engine? The Boat Test graphs of the previous generation AR190 (2018 and older) show that the boat should be going 28.4 mph at 6,000 RPM and that I should be able to go about 20mph at 5,400 RPM.

The idea of running the boat at it's lowest possible cruise speed of only 20mph at 1.2 - 1.4K below redline is very concerning. What happens when I get 3 other people in the boat? Will I even be able to get this thing on plane without WOT?

I was planning on keeping this for 10+ years and saved up for years to buy it, always admiring the boat and design over the years. I'm frankly shocked at how underpowered it is. Our previous boat was a naturally aspirated SeaDoo Speedster 150 4-Tec with 155hp (the lowest powered engine available in that model). I would cruise at 5,000 all day long in that boat at 20+ mph, which was 2.2 - 2.4K below redline. The Speedster felt like it had at least 3-4x the power-to-weight ratio, when it reality it was less than 2x the power-to-weight ratio of the AR190.

Their numbers are usually a bit optimistic but not too too far off in this case:

Yamaha SX190 (2019-) | BoatTEST

At 19'2" (5.8 m) the all-new 190 series represents a smaller version than previous Yamaha twin engine models, but the fun still comes in large doses. The Yamaha 190 is available in two versions

www.boattest.com

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[swatski]

Our new 2019 Yamaha AR190 needs 6,000 RPM to go 20mph. 5,800 RPM is the lowest possible RPM without falling off plane at about 17mph.

Verified by GPS. This is with only 1 person on board, full tank of fuel, calm conditions, no wind, at sea-level. 4 hours on the engine. Jet drive is clean, impeller is free of defects, wear ring is perfect.

Is this model really that underpowered from the factory or is there an inherent defect with my specific boat or engine? The Boat Test graphs of the previous generation AR190 (2018 and older) show that the boat should be going 28.4 mph at 6,000 RPM and that I should be able to go about 20mph at 5,400 RPM.

The idea of running the boat at it's lowest possible cruise speed of only 20mph at 1.2 - 1.4K below redline is very concerning. What happens when I get 3 other people in the boat? Will I even be able to get this thing on plane without WOT?

I was planning on keeping this for 10+ years and saved up for years to buy it, always admiring the boat and design over the years. I'm frankly shocked at how underpowered it is. Our previous boat was a naturally aspirated SeaDoo Speedster 150 4-Tec with 155hp (the lowest powered engine available in that model). I would cruise at 5,000 all day long in that boat at 20+ mph, which was 2.2 - 2.4K below redline. The Speedster felt like it had at least 3-4x the power-to-weight ratio, when it reality it was less than 2x the power-to-weight ratio of the AR190.

Loading is also important - bow up for top speed, but helps to stay on plane with weight there.

One thing that really helps lower the planning speed, if that's important, are trim tabs.

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[M6cabriolet]

I’m at about 900ft above sea level. This was end of summer last year September, the first pics was 81 degree lake, the second water temp was 96 degrees in that lake... i notice on the 25mph pics, i had 22 hrs on engine..

At 900 ft elevation what is your top speed? So far I have only been able to do 39 which was a big disappointment. But the elevation here is 1200.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I did notice several people with the 19 foot N A versions were complaining they could not get an adult water skier out of the water on one ski and the boat was really slow to get on plane.
So I found that my Viper with the planing surface has the boats getting on plane 500 r p m's sooner and staying on plane 500 rpm's slower, I also built a planing surface for the super ultimate AK and AK-19 system= I also have personally experienced a noticeable stronger 1800 engine once it gets to 10 hours I have even commented on this observation in the past . https://jetboaters.net/threads/first-outing-2018-242x-e-series-questions-advise.17270/#post-297926

 

[Maccam26]

At 900 ft elevation what is your top speed? So far I have only been able to do 39 which was a big disappointment. But the elevation here is 1200.

With full gas and myself aboard, I hit 38-42mph on speedo depending on wind (highest gps observed was 41). Usually I try a run like that with Bimini stored.

 

[Phreddei]

Thanks for the reference figures, this is helpful.

My boat has Cobra Jet Viper steering correction and Ribbon Delete from intake.

 

[Matt Phillips]

Couple of thoughts...I've only really been in a 232 or a 242 so can't speak to the specifics of the single engine series

1. These boats take a lot of thrust to get up out of the water and there's a big difference in speed once they come up out of the water.
2. 17-18mph sounds about right for a slow planing speed.
3. Wind, wave, and currents will dramatically affect speed. I've seen my boat on Lake Tahoe on a steady course and thrust vary as much as 5mph simply based on wind/wave changes
4. Although you're at sea level, elevation also plays a big difference. at 900 feet elevation, my engines will turn 7000+ rpm, at 6200 feet, I'm lucky to get 6400 out of them. I once read that naturally aspired engines will lose about 3% power for every 1,000 feet.
5. Although you would likely feel vibration, you may also check to see if your reverse bucket is fully clear of the nozzle when in FWD.

 

[gwrace1]

I'd be satisfied just to get the boat in the water. All our parks and ramps are closed. Count your blessings.

 

[Seattle-Wind]

Thanks for your feedback and comments everyone. I went out and tested the boat this afternoon with GPS and took it up to WOT. The test was done in calm water, at sea-level on a lake with no current, no wind, bimini top retracted, 85% fuel load, approximately 15 pounds of equipment on board, 1 person on board. Here are the results:

-5,150 – 10mph on speedo & 11mph on GPS.

-5,550 – 17mph on speedo & 18mph on GPS - slowest plane possible.

-5,700 – 19mph on speedo – 20mph on GPS

-6,000 – 22mph on speedo & 23.5mph on GPS

-6,500 – 27mph on speedo & 28mph on GPS

-7,000 – 31mph on speedo & 31mph on GPS

-7,500 WOT – 37mph on speedo & 37mph on GPS

 

[swatski]

You are not far off, I think, but it should be a bit better.
Do you cavitate a lot on hard start? (it's a bit like spinning wheels in mud, with no traction), does the boat come out of the hole right away or does it take a long time to reach planning speed?

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[swatski]

Your top RPM seems okay. Some of them have had cavitation issues due to missing sealant in the pump, even brand new.

 

[swatski]

I don't remember if you said that or not but did you check the pumps visually and tried to feel it with your hand through the clean out port and also through the intakes, maybe stick a phone in there to take some pictures?
Sometimes it can be something very small that's stuck and it will usually give you vibration so you know right away what it is. But sometimes it can be a twig or something soft-ish and you will just decreased performance similar to what you are describing. Unfortunately the only real way to check is to pull the pumps, which is actually a simple enough procedure, also good to know it because it comes in handy with these boats...
This is one example, I had similar symptoms but couldn't see anything until I pulled the pump/venturi nozzle off - decreased performance all cleared:


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[Yamadale]

I have a 2016 AR 190 with 100 hours on it. Being that it is a jet drive they thrive on existing momentum.So in order to get the speed I desire I will go faster then that, then reduce rpms and let the boat settle down into the speed I want. Seems less stressful on the motor than slowly trying to get on plane at the lowest rpm possible. But yes these motors can handle high rpms. You will get used to it.However the new models are around 500 pounds heavier and you will feel it behind the throttle