Possible new tow vehicle.......Lets hear thoughts from the gallery.......

[Taylorman]

Ford was doing similar crap with a tiny credit for missing features. The credit is supposed to cover the inconvenience of bring it back for the retrofit, which is free. There is no time frame for them to do it, so it's really a blind trust that they'll ever get around to you. I've not heard of anyone getting their retrofits yet. So you will likely have traded it before they get to you.

Most dealers with stuff on the lot won't sell at msrp. We found a few expeditions and explorers like that, and they all wanted over MSRP.... Even for a demo car with a couple thousand miles. Between that and the time frame for waiting, we went used and I feel fantastic about that choice lol.

Experiencing this now with the Expy Platinum we ordered. It’s in transit now and just found out that Ford removed several features. Some, e.g. 2nd row climate control from the 2nd row (can be controlled from the main console), will be retrofit but they provided a 12-18 month estimated timeline and also stated it could be longer. Other items, like the upgraded platinum front seats, will not be retrofit. Credits are not remotely close to adequate. We were leaning towards not buying the Expy already but this update has solidified it for us. No way we’re paying MSRP for a top of the line trim that doesn’t have the features that makes it top of the line. Additionally, most of what’s been disclosed is cosmetic but I don’t believe that ONLY cosmetic items are affected. There’s various reports out there about software changes and other ‘workarounds’ all vehicle manufactures are using to get vehicles out the door. I don’t trust that there won’t be long term implications of those ‘workarounds’.

 

[djetok]

Experiencing this now with the Expy Platinum we ordered. It’s in transit now and just found out that Ford removed several features. Some, e.g. 2nd row climate control from the 2nd row (can be controlled from the main console), will be retrofit but they provided a 12-18 month estimated timeline and also stated it could be longer. Other items, like the upgraded platinum front seats, will not be retrofit. Credits are not remotely close to adequate. We were leaning towards not buying the Expy already but this update has solidified it for us. No way we’re paying MSRP for a top of the line trim that doesn’t have the features that makes it top of the line. Additionally, most of what’s been disclosed is cosmetic but I don’t believe that ONLY cosmetic items are affected. There’s various reports out there about software changes and other ‘workarounds’ all vehicle manufactures are using to get vehicles out the door. I don’t trust that there won’t be long term implications of those ‘workarounds’.

I would not take it either, just think of the trouble of resale. Missing Plat seats on a platinum will bring red flags when its time to trade imo.

 

[tabbibus]

These missing features have solidified my decision of buying my Expy once my lease is up. I may just turn around and flip it for profit but that has yet to be decided.

 

[2kwik4u]

Ford was doing similar crap with a tiny credit for missing features. The credit is supposed to cover the inconvenience of bring it back for the retrofit, which is free. There is no time frame for them to do it, so it's really a blind trust that they'll ever get around to you. I've not heard of anyone getting their retrofits yet. So you will likely have traded it before they get to you.

Most dealers with stuff on the lot won't sell at msrp. We found a few expeditions and explorers like that, and they all wanted over MSRP.... Even for a demo car with a couple thousand miles. Between that and the time frame for waiting, we went used and I feel fantastic about that choice lol.

Honestly I'm leaning towards used at this point.

No worries on missing features, I can get an extended warranty, and there is about a $3k tax difference between the two (only pay tax on the difference between trade and new vehicle in Indiana).

No word on the local truck, I'm going to ping the dealership and check status.

 

[2kwik4u]

Neighbor is suggesting a brand new Nissan Titan Pro-4X. He's a site foreman for a heavy construction company and works his trucks hard. Said he's been happier with his Titan than he was with his '19 Silverado.

We've had great results from the 45k mi we've put on the 2018 Rogue we bought new.

Found a couple Titans locally for under $60k with all the options. 5yr 100k warranty. Lots of power and most of the same options and tech. No diesel. No "Auto 4WD". Otherwise pretty much every other option. Styling is a bit different though.

Nissanusa.com is showing a 48mo lease with 15k mi for $741/mo on a loaded Pro4X.

https://www.nissanusa.com/shopping-tools/build-price/trucks/titan/2022/4x4/29491:BABdl:An2BBkRUR2faTw/packages/inventory

Not sure if that will point you guys to the right truck locally.

Off to Google some reviews

 

[BlkGS]

I have thoughts on Titan tell you what...

Much like you, we had lots of praise for our rogue. Titan was a definite consideration for me, I think they look great, and are overall very ergonomically design trucks, real smart. They also Frickin huge, but all full size trucks are (gm seems to be smallest nowdays, could be wrong). Before the redesign, they were missing a handful of features I felt were must haves at the price point. But, they were considerably cheaper than everything else with an awesome warranty and loads of rebates.

We flirted with the idea of a loaded pro4x (that's the only way to get monochrome and nice features - sl loses a lot of features vs platinum and platinum is old man styled. Unfortunately pro4x also bring all the fake off-road crap with it. Titan is an overall solid choice, but it's solid when it's a good bit cheaper. It does drive a bit more sporty than most of the competition to me, but then ruins it with the soft pro4x suspension. But you know my tastes are likely different than others.

They suuuuuuuuuuuuck on gas. Their v8 is decent, but thirsty, and not any faster than anyone else really. Sounds good though. What I really like about them is they're a bit more simple of a truck, back like in the 2000s. Trucks nowdays are typically luxury cars with a bed on the back to make people feel whatever. Titan is still a simple truck feeling truck, despite having a lot of tech. No floppy dippt tailgate for manlets to get into the bed. No 120 way power seats with power wanking. No cheetah skin leather on the dashboard. It has a screen, but it's not intended to make your home TV look small. If you want a truck to do truck stuff, it's a great choice, if you get them at the right rebates.

The cummins v8 was a great idea, poorly executed. Nissan just gauges buyers wrong, and thought people bought diesels like that for practical reasons, not ego ones. Then with all the issues with their emissions crap, and not having brag worthy tow ratings, they were DOA. Still a great engine, but a real tactical mis step on their end.

Anyways, I had 2 neighbors with titans of this gen, and both loved them.

 

[2kwik4u]

I have thoughts on Titan tell you what...

Much like you, we had lots of praise for our rogue. Titan was a definite consideration for me, I think they look great, and are overall very ergonomically design trucks, real smart. They also Frickin huge, but all full size trucks are (gm seems to be smallest nowdays, could be wrong). Before the redesign, they were missing a handful of features I felt were must haves at the price point. But, they were considerably cheaper than everything else with an awesome warranty and loads of rebates.

We flirted with the idea of a loaded pro4x (that's the only way to get monochrome and nice features - sl loses a lot of features vs platinum and platinum is old man styled. Unfortunately pro4x also bring all the fake off-road crap with it. Titan is an overall solid choice, but it's solid when it's a good bit cheaper. It does drive a bit more sporty than most of the competition to me, but then ruins it with the soft pro4x suspension. But you know my tastes are likely different than others.

They suuuuuuuuuuuuck on gas. Their v8 is decent, but thirsty, and not any faster than anyone else really. Sounds good though. What I really like about them is they're a bit more simple of a truck, back like in the 2000s. Trucks nowdays are typically luxury cars with a bed on the back to make people feel whatever. Titan is still a simple truck feeling truck, despite having a lot of tech. No floppy dippt tailgate for manlets to get into the bed. No 120 way power seats with power wanking. No cheetah skin leather on the dashboard. It has a screen, but it's not intended to make your home TV look small. If you want a truck to do truck stuff, it's a great choice, if you get them at the right rebates.

The cummins v8 was a great idea, poorly executed. Nissan just gauges buyers wrong, and thought people bought diesels like that for practical reasons, not ego ones. Then with all the issues with their emissions crap, and not having brag worthy tow ratings, they were DOA. Still a great engine, but a real tactical mis step on their end.

Anyways, I had 2 neighbors with titans of this gen, and both loved them.

Many that's a long post. Not sure I've got time to read it. Maybe I should wait for a long turd or something.........

You knew that was coming right ?!?!

You make some good points though, and pretty much echo what the neighbor says about his. He's 48k miles into his 2021 and hasn't had a single issue with it. He beats the crap out of it too because of work. Granted, his company gives him $1k/mo to cover truck, and insurance, as well as a gas card, so there's that side of it for him, but overall he's been really happy with it. Says he often doesn't have "as much truck as he wants" and will likely go to a 3500 class pickup for his next ride in a year or two, but that's not the trucks fault.

The options on the Titan are pretty close to everything else on the market. It's a miss in a few places, and a hit in others. Haven't read a review yet that hasn't commented on the exceptionally comfy seats. Styling is pretty "front heavy" and it loses marks for that. Lots of comments about how quiet the cabin is while driving. Has most of the tech the others have. Lane keep, adaptive cruise, all the safety package stuff. Need to investigate the aftermarket a bit, Nissan only sold like 27k trucks in '21, so I have to think the aftermarket is going to be somewhat slim. Would basically just want a bed cover, bed rack for the bikes, window tint, and vent visors. Not certain I would lift it, or do many other mods to it really. Maybe a tune?!?! Doubt it though, I'm to a point in my life I don't really want to screw with it, I just want to get in and drive it, and have it facilitate my other hobbies.

White on Black has been my choice to here......not sure how I feel about it on the Titan though.



Neighbhor has the gunmetal. It's pretty nice, but I don't want to be to "matchy matchy" with him



Black hides all the trim pieces well, but doesn't really pop out or look interesting. Would match the Rogue and the Boat though

 

[adrianp89]

I kinda like the looks of the Titan. I've read mixed things, but ultimately feel if it was a truck worth buying the new generation would be selling a lot better than it is. Compared to the big 3 they less than 10% of one of the big 3 annually. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets axed eventually.

 

[BlkGS]

I kinda like the looks of the Titan. I've read mixed things, but ultimately feel if it was a truck worth buying the new generation would be selling a lot better than it is. Compared to the big 3 they less than 10% of one of the big 3 annually. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets axed eventually.

You're discounting the strong heritage factor in trucks.

My best friend has only ever driven Chevy trucks (and a Tacoma but he doesn't consider that a truck). His dad drove Chevy trucks. His dad's dad drove Chevy trucks. I'm. Pretty sure his dad's dad's dad drove the first Chevy trucks. His brother drives a Chevy truck. When I had my f150, he said "you Shoulda got a Chevy". When our friend bought a cummins he said "Shoulda gotten a duramax". He doesn't even like GMCs because they're not chevys lol. And he's not at all a one off, there's a lot of people who never buy a truck outside of what they've known.

Then factor in the fleet sales everyone but Toyota and Nissan do, and that there's way more big 3 dealers than Nissan... There's a limit to what they can sell per year ya know?

It seems that anything you could want for the Titan is out there. Lowering kits, lift kits, exhaust, blowers... They make it. Might not be 3 or 4 choices like you'd have for a domestic, but it's offered.

The big thing I'd say, if you're gonna drive 20k miles a year, the "barely breaks upper teems" fuel economy might sting a bit, lol.

 

[adrianp89]

I agree it's a factor but I don't think it's that big of a factor. Take out the Big 3 and the Tundra crushes the Titan (5-6x fold)Toyota for sure has loyality but anywhere to the level of good ole country boy heritage loyalty. Hell even the Santa Cruz is blowing it out of the water. Not sure if that counts though.

 

[BlkGS]

I agree it's a factor but I don't think it's that big of a factor. Take out the Big 3 and the Tundra crushes the Titan (5-6x fold)Toyota for sure has loyality but anywhere to the level of good ole country boy heritage loyalty. Hell even the Santa Cruz is blowing it out of the water. Not sure if that counts though.

Tundra has been around for like, 30 years with the t100, and Santa Cruz is like, half the price. Toyota is of course, a much larger car company than Nissan as well.

Trucks are the 2nd toughest market to break into, behind economy sedans (because those couple a few long running legacy cars with virtually no margin, trucks at least have margin). Nissan doesn't have a fleet model like everyone else, so that's a huge factor. They launched a badly needed redesign right as covid shut shit down, and the incentives you need to make Titan make sense vs the legacy competition dried up. It makes sense they wouldn't sell as much, they aren't as nice as the domestics and cost as much without incentives. So if you bought one now, it's because it was on the lot and you needed it now.

All things said, they're not bad. I wouldn't buy one, but I can get why people do.

 

[2kwik4u]

The big thing I'd say, if you're gonna drive 20k miles a year, the "barely breaks upper teems" fuel economy might sting a bit, lol.

$31/mo ($379/yr) difference with todays pricing. Be at the pump a lot more often so it will certainly "feel" worse. Total cost is kinda in the noise though.

Prices pulled from Gasbuddy.com for my area. 22mpg from the truck I test drove. 16mpg reported as average from the neighbor.



I think the heritage portion is a good read in general. Lots of people are brand loyal. Those that aren't typically jump ship to Toyota. Read one review that said Nissan sold 27k trucks in '21. Ram sold over 570k in the same timeframe.

When you compare spec sheets, the Titan makes a good case for itself. HP/Torque/Payload/Tow Capacity, as well as all the other "features" are right on par with the competition. So anyone comparing them "logically" would see them as a pretty excellent value considering the price point. The Pro-4X is right inline with an AT4. Styling aside, something else has to be driving away buyers. Ignorance (lack of knowledge they exist, not just being dumb)? Tradition? Emotion at some level? Who knows.

I'm going to stop by and look at a white one on the way home today. See if I like it in that same color scheme I like the AT4. Probably drive the neighbors around the block and push buttons in the driveway over a beer(after the drive of course) if he's around tonight.

 

[adrianp89]

Curious on your overall thoughts once you get some time in one.

 

[2kwik4u]

Curious on your overall thoughts once you get some time in one.

I'll certainly report back.

This looks promising for certain:

 

[adrianp89]

I really want to see a plug in gas hybrid truck. That could make me switch brands, especially if I could cover 25 miles towing on a single charge. I wish I got anywhere close to normal MPGs lol. The truck pretty much exclusively tows a few miles in stop/go traffic every day. I think I average 10-11 on the dash, but my use case is unique. I actually tow so much with the truck than without that I actually backed out of a spot in the wrong direction a few weeks ago (turned the wheel like I am backing up a trailer) lol.

 

[adrianp89]

I'll certainly report back.

This looks promising for certain:

View attachment 176436

Does Nissan cut deals? I still cringe at MSRP. My truck MSRPed around ~72k and it ended up being like 49k.

 

[2kwik4u]

Does Nissan cut deals? I still cringe at MSRP. My truck MSRPed around ~72k and it ended up being like 49k.

They did on our Rogue in '18. Threw like $5k rebate at us to make the deal happen. Essentially covered the POS Traverse equity we traded in, and we financed right at MSRP on that car. Not sure how the COVID market has affected that. I'm sure the salesman will have thoughts

 

[2kwik4u]

I really want to see a plug in gas hybrid truck. That could make me switch brands, especially if I could cover 25 miles towing on a single charge. I wish I got anywhere close to normal MPGs lol. The truck pretty much exclusively tows a few miles in stop/go traffic every day. I think I average 10-11 on the dash, but my use case is unique. I actually tow so much with the truck than without that I actually backed out of a spot in the wrong direction a few weeks ago (turned the wheel like I am backing up a trailer) lol.

Agree here.

I hate the Ford styling. I mean, it just does NOT do it for me. HOWEVER, the hybrid driveline with the built in generator capability sounds absolutely amazing as a tool to have. No idea how often I would use it, but I love the thought of the value that provides. Being able to power our heatpump and refrigerator in a winter power outage would be a nice capability to have.

I have to think a PHEV arrangement in a pickup would sell well. People seem to love the Jeep 4xe vehicles that have similar attributes.

 

[adrianp89]

Agree here.

I hate the Ford styling. I mean, it just does NOT do it for me. HOWEVER, the hybrid driveline with the built in generator capability sounds absolutely amazing as a tool to have. No idea how often I would use it, but I love the thought of the value that provides. Being able to power our heatpump and refrigerator in a winter power outage would be a nice capability to have.

I have to think a PHEV arrangement in a pickup would sell well. People seem to love the Jeep 4xe vehicles that have similar attributes.

We are one, still loving the 4XE. Bump the battery size and throw it the Ram - pair it with the new TT 6 cylinder... sign me the hell up.

 

[BlkGS]

Does Nissan cut deals? I still cringe at MSRP. My truck MSRPed around ~72k and it ended up being like 49k.

They used to do that sort of stuff. But now nobody does deals.