The Vaccine

[mwalker4]

I'm very pro-vaccine but weary of Federal Government Mandates. I would like to see as an outcome of this pandemic a law codifying at national medical emergency, somewhat similar to a declaration of war. I really dislike government by proclamation because that is how you end up with a dictatorship.

 

[adrianp89]

Don't think it matters what age you are when your head hits the pavement; the results are the same.

Not sure how this is relevant. I know people with bikes that prefer not to ride with helmet because they would rather be dead than a vegetable. That is their choice and they have the right to make that choice.

 

[adrianp89]

I don't think having the vaccine is a law.

This new mandate is work around for that. They will try to find a work around for the rest too.

 

[yam240sx]

look at Australia right now ! .. if you think thats not headed here soon you have your head in the sand ! ..

 

[2kwik4u]

I am sure my company will send a notice out today. I've been here only 7 months but it seems they take a wait and see approach, and that is probably what this will be.

I do not think there is any law nationwide that forces you to put something in your body or forces you to do something to keep your job.

Helmet laws are a poor example. They are mostly for 20 and under and are a state level.

I think you're right, there most likely isn't a law that mandates that level of doing something to keep your job. Full disclosure, I haven't looked into it. However, we have many laws that govern what we can and can not do with our body already abortion and euthanasia are two obvious ones. Back to the premise of keeping your job is an interesting twist though, as currently most laws that restrict the body have to do with general public interaction not private (in company) interactions. Most of OSHA rules are surrounding environment, equipment, and personal safety from an "outside the body" perspective. Interesting thoughts.

Helmet laws I think are a decent example of a removal of a decision by an individual that is deemed necessary under the premise of protecting someone from themselves. You're correct, it's not at a federal level. so might not be a direct comparison to the vax mandate, however the premise I was using it for was the idea that the government can take away a liberty under the premise of public safety. Might not be direct apples to apples, but I'm at least fruit to fruit here

 

[2kwik4u]

look at Australia right now ! .. if you think thats not headed here soon you have your head in the sand ! ..

I'm out of the loop. Have some links?

 

[Beachbummer]

... wonder why they stopped teaching script in schools years ago .. well you guessed it so kids could not read constitution in future ..

Just to point out, The constitution is available in type face. The government hands it out for free when you become a naturalized citizen along with many other volumes from our founding fathers. It's available in type face to anyone willing to find it. The statement just makes no sense. I struggle greatly with this statement, and it greatly reduces your credibility in my eyes, I would encourage you to review it and analyze it and see if you find there may be other reasons for this.

 

[Evil Sports]

Quote...."Australia is at a stalemate: Unable to quash the Delta variant with previously effective tactics, the country needs a new approach"
Wondering what that new approach will be

 

[MidnightRider]

The federal government is going to force me to have a medical procedure which forces me to inject something into my body whether I like it or not at the threat of being fired from a job that supports me and my family. And many of you don't see anything wrong with that- Really?! I'm speachless. Not that its happening, you could see it coming with this administration, but with how many people are ok with it. This isn't a vaccine issue. And don't think this is the big caring Federal government watching out for us - BS - this is a pure political move based on polling to turn the page. It would be one thing (although not a good thing) if it came from the state level but from the Federal level is just scary.

Also, how much is this going to solve anything seeing what is happening in Israel, (legitimate quesion), seems to me in Israel the vaccine keeping you out of the hospital is an argument that is not holding water anymore. Are we shifting away from keeping you out of the hospital to just keep you from dying? Do we have to start saying ,get the vaccine, you may still end up in the ICU but you probably won't die.

And lastly, you want to push all those on the fence of getting vaccinated solidly over to the "no, never" side.... I'll tell you exactly what you do, you threaten them. WTH. I guarantee this just pushed a whole segment of the US population that may have decided to get the vaccine over to never getting ever.

Edit: and I feel I have to put a disclaimer every time I post about government over reach in this issue that I am all for vaccines. Get the vaccine but this is a whole different issue.

 

[2kwik4u]

Just to point out, The constitution is available in type face. The government hands it out for free when you become a naturalized citizen along with many other volumes from our founding fathers. It's available in type face to anyone willing to find it. The statement just makes no sense. I struggle greatly with this statement, and it greatly reduces your credibility in my eyes, I would encourage you to review it and analyze it and see if you find there may be other reasons for this.

Agreed.

If feels like a post from a zealot from the opposite side of the isle more than a genuine concern for country direction. I had a whole thing typed up about algorithms funneling news feeds that fuel this sort of thing, but redacted most of it. I think the demographics of boaters leads us into these echo chambers that amplify what are, IMO, pretty extreme thoughts. When we look outside I think we find we're less majority than we think we are, and by and large these ideas don't hold water very far.

Also, this is some personal information here, I find myself getting more liberal the more I learn, and the older I get. That skews my lense some as well I'm sure.

 

[scbruet]

the simple answer to all this is STOP using the money system .. time to work for gold and silver as intended by our founding fathers and in the constitution ! .. wonder why they stopped teaching script in schools years ago .. well you guessed it so kids could not read constitution in future .. local small businesses should go on a gold and silver system . true and pure freedom

You spelled bitcoin wrong

 

[crazy4life]

look at Australia right now ! .. if you think thats not headed here soon you have your head in the sand ! ..

Australia does not have 350 million guns in the hands of private citizens.Gotta thank our forefathers for the 2nd amendment. If you think the govt. is gonna collect them like they did in Australia I have some prime oceanfront property to sell you in Arizone.

 

[yam240sx]

Australia is in total tyranical lock down right now .. they are building camps for the sick/ quarrantine / unvaxx... you cannot leave your house basically , i watched a video of one father beaten and thrown down to ground held down while enforcers / police injected his 13 year old daughter .. these videos surface and get deleted quick somehow .. you wont be able to see this news on google .. try to talk to people there if you can , they will tell you whats happening unreal

 

[yam240sx]

watch this gem .. poor girl from states here im sure ..

 

[Lurch]

I'm out of the loop. Have some links?

Apologies in advance for using the internet to back up my posts, but my handsome, leather-bound encyclopedia set is of marginal use, and I'm currently banned from visiting the island continent to see for myself .
Disclaimer: It's an opinion piece, however, references a number of facts re: the Australia approach.

Australia’s insane COVID rules are a warning to the rest of the Free World

At the start of the pandemic, Australia determined to squeeze out COVID with lockdowns and travel restrictions.

nypost.com

You can verify some of the claims directly from the AU govt.

Official Australian Government information

The official Australian Government response website to provide support and updates to Australians on the Coronavirus pandemic.

www.australia.gov.au

 

[Farny]

These people are a whole another breed of fucking stupid, it's truly shocking.

SMH - my Dr prescribed the correct dose for me and it worked brilliantly. Gotta agree that these people are stupid, they need to work with their doctor and not horse doses. Worst thing is they will end up giving the medicine a bad name because of their ignorance…. Gods help us

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

Here are how I see some of the “mandates” from information in public news reports.

Federal employees and contractors – 75 days to get fully vaccinated. All are employed by the Federal government. Mandate for vaccination not much different that any other employer. Many federal employees are union members and there are bargaining agreements in place. There are many different unions covering federal employees and some unions are welcoming the mandate, some are very much against the mandate, while most are taking a wait and see attitude. Many unions felt burned by the previous administration who frequently disregarding the agreements. Federals employees are prohibited from striking and this can be grounds for dismal, like with the air traffic controllers in the 1980’s. Getting dismissed means loss of your pension, although you likely can recover the portion that you have contributed from your paycheck.

17 million health care workers at facilities receiving funds from Medicare and Medicaid to be fully vaccinated, expanding the mandate to hospitals, home care facilities and dialysis centers around the country. Bottom line is that if these facilities want to continue to receive the federal monies, then U.S. Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), will assure staff have been vaccinated. My guess is that if the facility does not receive federal monies, this “mandate” has no effect. Although the OSHA one for firms with more than 100 employees still would be effective.

OSHA currently has Covid-19 requirements in place for employee safety although I believe that it is a new requirement that all employers with more than 100 employees to ensure their workers are vaccinated or tested weekly. I would suspect that for the most part OSHA will rely on voluntary compliance. I would also guess that there are many employers who welcome this requirement and are happy to say “the government is making us do this”.

Jim

 

[scbruet]

To clarify, there is a testing mandate for private companies over 100 employees, not a vaccine mandate. You get to "opt out" of the testing mandate if you're vaccinated. I assume this is how they think they are on legal grounds to implement this.

 

[Farny]

Here are how I see some of the “mandates” from information in public news reports.

Federal employees and contractors – 75 days to get fully vaccinated. All are employed by the Federal government. Mandate for vaccination not much different that any other employer. Many federal employees are union members and there are bargaining agreements in place. There are many different unions covering federal employees and some unions are welcoming the mandate, some are very much against the mandate, while most are taking a wait and see attitude. Many unions felt burned by the previous administration who frequently disregarding the agreements. Federals employees are prohibited from striking and this can be grounds for dismal, like with the air traffic controllers in the 1980’s. Getting dismissed means loss of your pension, although you likely can recover the portion that you have contributed from your paycheck.

17 million health care workers at facilities receiving funds from Medicare and Medicaid to be fully vaccinated, expanding the mandate to hospitals, home care facilities and dialysis centers around the country. Bottom line is that if these facilities want to continue to receive the federal monies, then U.S. Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS), will assure staff have been vaccinated. My guess is that if the facility does not receive federal monies, this “mandate” has no effect. Although the OSHA one for firms with more than 100 employees still would be effective.

OSHA currently has Covid-19 requirements in place for employee safety although I believe that it is a new requirement that all employers with more than 100 employees to ensure their workers are vaccinated or tested weekly. I would suspect that for the most part OSHA will rely on voluntary compliance. I would also guess that there are many employers who welcome this requirement and are happy to say “the government is making us do this”.

Jim

Who just purchased and now owns a large part of the testing companies? Follow the money trail folks.

 

[adrianp89]

To clarify, there is a testing mandate for private companies over 100 employees, not a vaccine mandate. You get to "opt out" of the testing mandate if you're vaccinated. I assume this is how they think they are on legal grounds to implement this.

They know companies will just mandate it. Cheaper than paying for tests every week.