Thoughts and demo rides of wake / towsports boats: Moomba Max, Axis A22, MB Sports

[haknslash]

I don’t see how Malibu was or could sue MB over their ladder step. Malibu integrated the step INTO the swim deck and it folds from within it. MB didn’t create anything there that wasn’t already created meaning a step or ladder that mounts below and to the swim deck.

I’m not worried about Malibu or anyone. They’re not going to come after some broke ass Joe Schmoe who doesn’t have monies to pay them in court much less a settlement lol. Even if I made one for myself I wouldn’t make a business out of it lol. Besides I don’t think Malib owns a patent on a step or ladder by itself. Rather they likely own a patent on a step that folds out from within or integrated within the swim platform. Cobalt boats introduced the integrated drop down step from within a swim platform back in 2013 long before Malibu acquired Cobalt. Once they were acquired Malibu said give me your IP’s and then they started using it on their boats.

 

[cozilla]

I am probably going to have to install a ladder before the summer is over. I know my inlaws who boat with us frequently are not going to be able to get into the boat.

 

[OrangeTJ]

I don’t see how Malibu was or could sue MB over their ladder step. Malibu integrated the step INTO the swim deck and it folds from within it. MB didn’t create anything there that wasn’t already created meaning a step or ladder that mounts below and to the swim deck.

I’m not worried about Malibu or anyone. They’re not going to come after some broke ass Joe Schmoe who doesn’t have monies to pay them in court much less a settlement lol. Even if I made one for myself I wouldn’t make a business out of it lol. Besides I don’t think Malib owns a patent on a step or ladder by itself. Rather they likely own a patent on a step that folds out from within or interested within the swim platform. Cobalt boats introduced the integrated drop down step from within a swim platform back in 2013 long before Malibu acquired Cobalt. Once they were acquired Malibu said give me your IP’s and then they started using it on their boats.

You can install whatever you want on your own boat. If you try to make a business of it and the patent holder catches wind, then you may have some issues.

Recently, Malibu has been enforcing its patent ownership of surf systems that create a wave by using delayed convergence. Think that's very far-reaching? Before long, every manufacturer in the game is going to be paying licensing fees to Malibu!

 

[swatski]

I don’t see how Malibu was or could sue MB over their ladder step. Malibu integrated the step INTO the swim deck and it folds from within it. MB didn’t create anything there that wasn’t already created meaning a step or ladder that mounts below and to the swim deck.

I’m not worried about Malibu or anyone. They’re not going to come after some broke ass Joe Schmoe who doesn’t have monies to pay them in court much less a settlement lol. Even if I made one for myself I wouldn’t make a business out of it lol. Besides I don’t think Malib owns a patent on a step or ladder by itself. Rather they likely own a patent on a step that folds out from within or interested within the swim platform. Cobalt boats introduced the integrated drop down step from within a swim platform back in 2013 long before Malibu acquired Cobalt. Once they were acquired Malibu said give me your IP’s and then they started using it on their boats.

What do you know, Yamaha patented a rudder in A.D. 2015.
I mean, Articulating Keel, pardon me.

--

 

[ripler]

You can install whatever you want on your own boat. If you try to make a business of it and the patent holder catches wind, then you may have some issues.

Recently, Malibu has been enforcing its patent ownership of surf systems that create a wave by using delayed convergence. Think that's very far-reaching? Before long, every manufacturer in the game is going to be paying licensing fees to Malibu!

There are a lot of patents by other manufacturers for their surf systems. I wonder what Malibu is using to enforce their patents, I wonder if they are saying they patented delayed convergence.

You are right, after a quick internet search Malibu is going after a lot of boat manufacturers and companies that make aftermarket surf systems. They sued other boat manufacturers and got a settlement plus they are getting royalties.

Speaking of patents, Correct Craft owns the patent for putting a wakeboard tower on a boat, so every boat manufacturer that puts a tower on their boat pays a $100.00 licensing fee to Correct Craft. The fee was actually a line item on my build sheet and found out when I asked about it.

 

[007]

I am probably going to have to install a ladder before the summer is over. I know my inlaws who boat with us frequently are not going to be able to get into the boat.

So, I , really, REALLY hope this is not me any day soon, but since I am the inlaw, and own the boat..."fill the dang ballast bags son and sink that swim platform so they can get on it easier!!"

 

[cozilla]

@007 That is the plan haha. I have a 3 year old and he has a hard time getting on the swim deck as well so its a universal thing.

 

[haknslash]

I sink the ass end of my boat anytime we are in a cove so that the swim deck is under water or at least closer to it. Once I add a ladder it won’t be necessary. For the time being it works and make me look less like a sea lion trying to hop on a dock lol.

 

[MGoMike]

Took my wife a few weeks ago to check out MB Boats at a local dealer. We were really impressed by the boats and the dealer. Gonna go check out the Moomba/Supra dealer pretty soon and then do some on-water demos once it gets warmer.

Now that we are well on our way towards reserving a 2022 wake boat build slot, I’ve started thinking about tow rig. We’ll need to upgrade from our Jeep Grand Cherokee we use to tow our Yamaha. The Yamaha is already pushing the Jeep and these wake boats are huge! Well beyond Grand Cherokee tow ratings.

I’d prefer to stick with a max tow package half ton pickup and not jump right to a 3/4 ton. There are definitely a lot of other towing features the OEMs are offering as options these days (Tow Mirrors, BLIS with tow coverage, backup assist, 360 camera, air suspension, etc). I’m curious... any of optional tow features you guys love? Any you got and are meh about?

 

[haknslash]

MB Sports are nice boats. I might have gone with them if there was any real dealer support here in my state. Nice deep V hull, quick fill, not too much tech, you can stack metal flake etc. We only have one MB dealer in the state and his shop was....well not much of a dealership and did not give off comfortable vibes. That being said they are nice boats and throw a nice wave. I’m still not feeling the lines of the alpha series but it does have the latest and greatest offerings from them.

As for towing I think a lot of it depends on the terrain you’re in. I can get away without needing a 3/4 ton truck where I live but it might be different where you live. A solid transmission, rear end ratio, engine and brakes will go a long ways in a 1/2 ton. I will say this my next truck will for sure have 4WD as it can get a little sketchy at some ramps only having 2WD.

 

[sleek98]

How far do you have to tow? I use a 1/2 ton 2008 suburban and it’s really right on the line. It either needs more gear or I should have went with the gmc for the 6.2. I do have air suspension and it does make a huge difference. I also only tow 125 miles one way 2x a year. To the lake and back in the fall. If I had to trailer that distance more often I would swap out gears, it really needs a little more power since it’s got the old 4 speed.

 

[haknslash]

Before I had my storage unit I towed my Max 92 miles each way to the lake. Half was long, hilly, countryside 2-lane roads and the other half was interstate slab. My 2010 F150 has the 5.4 L engine, 4 speed transmission with 3.55 rear end. It does "okay" towing the Max but the transmission in it is nothing compared to what the newer trucks come with these days with 6, 8 and 10 speeds available. In the hills the truck will work harder of course but it's certainly capable. I've even had to make a few evasive maneuvers and stabs of the brakes and so far it has held composure and never felt like I was on the ragged edge of towing or anything. I'd love to have a new truck with a new fresh engine, more gears in a better tranny, lower gear ratio, 4WD you name it....but I love not having a truck note too lol and these days these trucks are freaking crazy expensive!

Thankfully these days I'm only towing 3 miles to the ramp down a 2-lane county road so my towing requirements aren't nearly as important. It has kept the wear and tear off my truck and saves me a ton of gas I'd otherwise be burning while towing long distances. I'll gladly pay the $150 in storage each month vs a new truck payment

 

[suke]

Without constantly sounding like a Ford fanboi, I went through a similar quandary when picking out a tow rig. I went and looked at every half ton truck on the market. I'm a jeep guy, and never owned a full size truck.

So, I set out researching everything single option to death on half tons. I found the chevy 5.3 totally gutless, interior, and tech was meh. The Tundra, and Nissan for that matter, felt like driving a tractor. I had a jeep with solid axles already, I wanted something smoother and quieter. The tech in the Tundra is like 10 years behind the curve. Basically it was damn near last on my list for everything but alleged reliability.

I had a buddy who was pushing me to the F150 as he had one, BUT I didn't want to just be like him. So I kept trying to make other trucks work. The Ram's are/were nice. Their interior is second to none, and their tech is top of the line. However, that 5.7 is ok, but has terrible fuel mileage and still didn't wow me with power. Ride and quietness was better than all of them, though. I finally decided to go and drive an F150 XLT 4wd with the 3.5 ecoboost with max tow. Had a tow rating of 13k lbs, which was top of its class, and fuel economy better than any other gasser. It has so much power I've yet been able to bring myself to hammer to the floor on it. It's quiet inside, seats are comfortable, and the tech is good. The trailer assist I thought would be a gimmick is awesome. I set it up largely for my wife, but I find myself using it more and more. I easily get 23 mpg on the highway with cruise set at 73-75mph. Which is respectable given the maxtow has the taller gears. I've averaged 14mpg while loaded down with ~1k lbs in the bed, and my boat fully loaded, with the A/C on full blast.

I surely wasn't a Ford fanboi when I started, but I find it hard for me to switch to anything else. If the Ram ecodiesel didn't have such bad reviews I MIGHT go with that given all the other things I liked about the Ram. It's just hard to beat that ecoboost motor. So, when the time comes, which will be before my powertrain warranty runs out, I'll likely end up with another F150 XLT with maxtow.

 

[MGoMike]

MB Sports are nice boats. I might have gone with them if there was any real dealer support here in my state. Nice deep V hull, quick fill, not too much tech, you can stack metal flake etc. We only have one MB dealer in the state and his shop was....well not much of a dealership and did not give off comfortable vibes. That being said they are nice boats and throw a nice wave. I’m still not feeling the lines of the alpha series but it does have the latest and greatest offerings from them.

As for towing I think a lot of it depends on the terrain you’re in. I can get away without needing a 3/4 ton truck where I live but it might be different where you live. A solid transmission, rear end ratio, engine and brakes will go a long ways in a 1/2 ton. I will say this my next truck will for sure have 4WD as it can get a little sketchy at some ramps only having 2WD.

I actually like the lines of the new MB Alphas, but totally understand that they are a bit aggressive. They are super solid boats. Everything felt well built. The dealer we went to also sells Tiges and ATXs. It was interesting to crawl around them one after the other. Agree that MB is lacking on the tech, but that's not high up my list. I really am focused on a great surf wave and construction quality.

The Tige we looked at was a 23RZX. It was really nice and had way more tech - Taps3 surf system, rear view camera, wireless phone charging, power fold tower, etc.). The interior was also a touch more plush and polished than the MB. I got the impression that Tige has some really good designers that focus on appealing and functional design aesthetics. All those extras added up to ~$30K difference in price between the Tige and the MB B52 Alpha.

The ATX we looked at was a 24 Type-S. It felt cheap compared to the other two boats. The thing that highlighted the difference for me was the back seat in the main cabin area. Both the MB and the Tige have these super solid seats that can flip over. My comment to my wife in the MB was "This seat is built like a tank". The ATX had this cheap feeling seat that picks up and you just turn around backwards and slot into some grooves to face backwards. Also, the top of the picklefork boat felt, maybe plastic?

On trucks... good point on 4WD. Definitely doing that.

 

[MGoMike]

How far do you have to tow? I use a 1/2 ton 2008 suburban and it’s really right on the line. It either needs more gear or I should have went with the gmc for the 6.2. I do have air suspension and it does make a huge difference. I also only tow 125 miles one way 2x a year. To the lake and back in the fall. If I had to trailer that distance more often I would swap out gears, it really needs a little more power since it’s got the old 4 speed.

We trailer all the time, 30-60 miles round trip each time we go out. I'll definitely get max tow package and rear end axle ratio to max out towing capabilities. Good news is that we are in Michigan - FLAT!

 

[J-RAD]

Took my wife a few weeks ago to check out MB Boats at a local dealer. We were really impressed by the boats and the dealer. Gonna go check out the Moomba/Supra dealer pretty soon and then do some on-water demos once it gets warmer.

Now that we are well on our way towards reserving a 2022 wake boat build slot, I’ve started thinking about tow rig. We’ll need to upgrade from our Jeep Grand Cherokee we use to tow our Yamaha. The Yamaha is already pushing the Jeep and these wake boats are huge! Well beyond Grand Cherokee tow ratings.

I’d prefer to stick with a max tow package half ton pickup and not jump right to a 3/4 ton. There are definitely a lot of other towing features the OEMs are offering as options these days (Tow Mirrors, BLIS with tow coverage, backup assist, 360 camera, air suspension, etc). I’m curious... any of optional tow features you guys love? Any you got and are meh about?

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We are a 2 truck family. I drive a 2018 Denali 3500HD with the 6.6 Duramax and 8 speed trans. My wife just upgraded her 2012 Tundra to a 2021 Sierra 1500 AT4 with the 3.0 Duramax and 10 speed trans.

What spawned her upgraded was our purchase of an 5th wheel a few months ago. Our intention is for me to tow the RV while she tows the boat. For only being 3 years apart, the tech in her truck is a major leap from mine. It has programmable trailers with milage and maintenance tracking for each. It has every camera angle which is very helpful during regular driving, parking and trailering. When connected to a trailer and you put the turn signal on it will activate the side view camera on the same side. Great for changing lanes and rounding corners. It makes mine seem awfully dated... I still have to use a key to start mine, and my rear view mirror is only a mirror not a rear view cam. My youngest keeps telling me to turn my mirror on, lol!

She did opt for the trailering mirrors, but I'm not sure she loves them...? She complains about the blind spot they create when she's trying to see around a corner. I'm used to the large mirrors on my truck, so I don't mind.

The powertrain is awesome! It's got loads of torque and seems to handle the boat just fine. We've yet to trailer very far, just 10 minutes down the road, not up the canyon or any long stretch down the freeway, but it seems an easy task. It is easily getting double the mpg towing and nearly 10 mpg or better during regular use. The complaint is, the tow rating with the baby Duramax for the time being is 8,800lbs. The max tow upgrades don't apply. I think it's plenty for most wake boats. A G25 Paragon loaded with the trailer may push past that...

The only thing I could make note of that is different towing with her truck vs mine while towing is you can feel the trailer move the rear if the truck a bit more at speed when rounding a corner or hitting a bump on the freeway. But, that's the difference between a 1500 and 3500 suspension no doubt. Hers is much smoother around town.

That's my review if the GM 1500 trucks.

 

[sleek98]

We trailer all the time, 30-60 miles round trip each time we go out. I'll definitely get max tow package and rear end axle ratio to max out towing capabilities. Good news is that we are in Michigan - FLAT!

if your only going 30-60 miles I would go with a 1/2 ton no problem.

 

[MGoMike]

Without constantly sounding like a Ford fanboi, I went through a similar quandary when picking out a tow rig. I went and looked at every half ton truck on the market. I'm a jeep guy, and never owned a full size truck.

So, I set out researching everything single option to death on half tons. I found the chevy 5.3 totally gutless, interior, and tech was meh. The Tundra, and Nissan for that matter, felt like driving a tractor. I had a jeep with solid axles already, I wanted something smoother and quieter. The tech in the Tundra is like 10 years behind the curve. Basically it was damn near last on my list for everything but alleged reliability.

I had a buddy who was pushing me to the F150 as he had one, BUT I didn't want to just be like him. So I kept trying to make other trucks work. The Ram's are/were nice. Their interior is second to none, and their tech is top of the line. However, that 5.7 is ok, but has terrible fuel mileage and still didn't wow me with power. Ride and quietness was better than all of them, though. I finally decided to go and drive an F150 XLT 4wd with the 3.5 ecoboost with max tow. Had a tow rating of 13k lbs, which was top of its class, and fuel economy better than any other gasser. It has so much power I've yet been able to bring myself to hammer to the floor on it. It's quiet inside, seats are comfortable, and the tech is good. The trailer assist I thought would be a gimmick is awesome. I set it up largely for my wife, but I find myself using it more and more. I easily get 23 mpg on the highway with cruise set at 73-75mph. Which is respectable given the maxtow has the taller gears. I've averaged 14mpg while loaded down with ~1k lbs in the bed, and my boat fully loaded, with the A/C on full blast.

I surely wasn't a Ford fanboi when I started, but I find it hard for me to switch to anything else. If the Ram ecodiesel didn't have such bad reviews I MIGHT go with that given all the other things I liked about the Ram. It's just hard to beat that ecoboost motor. So, when the time comes, which will be before my powertrain warranty runs out, I'll likely end up with another F150 XLT with maxtow.

Thanks for the awesome write up! We’ve got the 5.7 Hemi in our Jeep. You are right -it’s a thirsty engine. I’m going to have to check out a Ford F-150 with 3.5 ecoboost.

 

[suke]

Thanks for the awesome write up! We’ve got the 5.7 Hemi in our Jeep. You are right -it’s a thirsty engine. I’m going to have to check out a Ford F-150 with 3.5 ecoboost.

If you go new the newer ones come with even more bells and whistles. MSRP on my truck is ~55k and still didn't come with LEDs, dual/auto climate control, or leather. I bought mine CPO and the PO put leather in it, and I installed LED headlights. The new XLT's have all those things, BUT at like 5k+ more MSRP. Mine is an FX4 which had most of the maxtow components already, and I likely won't go FX4 next time. Just kind of a wasted option as the maxtow has everything the FX4 has, but stickers and stiffer suspension. LOL! Maxtow you also get the 36 gallon tank, which is really nice. When traveling we can get about 730 miles to the tank, not towing of course. Which is longer than we could take before needing to stop for food/potty break anyways.

 

[MGoMike]

If you go new the newer ones come with even more bells and whistles. MSRP on my truck is ~55k and still didn't come with LEDs, dual/auto climate control, or leather. I bought mine CPO and the PO put leather in it, and I installed LED headlights. The new XLT's have all those things, BUT at like 5k+ more MSRP. Mine is an FX4 which had most of the maxtow components already, and I likely won't go FX4 next time. Just kind of a wasted option as the maxtow has everything the FX4 has, but stickers and stiffer suspension. LOL! Maxtow you also get the 36 gallon tank, which is really nice. When traveling we can get about 730 miles to the tank, not towing of course. Which is longer than we could take before needing to stop for food/potty break anyways.

Dang! 36 gallon tank must be nice. It’s wild how truck prices have gotten crazy expensive... just like wake boats. I should probably find a cheaper hobby

I can get supplier pricing from any of the Big 3. Seems like that might be clutch this year if I decide to go new. The limited inventory (both new and used) means there aren’t any deals to be had right now.