Vtech Maptuner ECU reflash - first impressions

[swatski]

You should come up with a standard start by slowly engaging the throttles. Slamming them to the WOT stop will surely cause cavitation. Engage the throttles while starting a count like ..."5...4...3...2...1" that should give you a nice acceleration without cavitation.

Excellent tip, thank you. I will try that... as I continue testing alone, which is kind of hard, actually… Tested my dexterity, too! LOL.

We are not in Florida, unfortunately, and I find it hard getting help, no one I know seems to like freezing their butt off on the water this time of year here... But I love it!

 

[swatski]

Alright guys, here is some good news: my Maptuner purchase just paid for itself!!!

Here is what happened.
Last night, I managed to convince my wife to go out and pull me wakeboarding. The weather was beautiful, and we had an hour before it got dark. Mind you, I am a terribly-out-of-shape, pretty-bad-but-way-too-enthusiastic wake boarder type... So..., a good driver is of great help. Which is why I usually go with my buddies .
Long story short, after a couple of runs (...with the usual biting my tongue, ...I must not open my mouth, ...if I do I just say thank you) I realized - I still had my Maptuner on board. Asked for a break, and flashed the ECU from stock to my fav stage 2.

BOY, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Much smoother start, and then she could actually keep a steady 19-20mph. Everything just seemed smoother... I am NOT making this up. My wife said it was noticeably different, easier for her to handle and keep consistent speed (which is a major issue with 190s, at least without PerfectPass). And if you know my wife, lets just say - she is not very easy to impress...

ANyway - I will be doing my ballast/load testing with some metrics, but for now - I am very encouraged!

 

[swatski]

My “testing” has been pretty sporadic, but here is one new quick observation: So far with my Stage 2 Vtech reflash I get the best results with the OEM impeller...

I have put my refurbished Solas Concord 13/19 back on to do some wakeboarding this week - and to my surprise - the engine felt MASSIVELY under-propped with Stage 2 tuning – it span way too much and cavitated like crazy, to the point it was actually hard to pull anyone (...well, me). Once it got going it was okay, but at the low end it just felt like driving in mud/slipping at the touch of the throttle.

This was the same prop that worked very well for me before I started messing with the ECU, so I reflashed the ECU back to "backup" mode while still on the lake and it worked fine again ...

(I still do not really care for the OEM impeller, as it gives a lot of vibration and noise)

So, here is a question: Is there an aftermarket impeller that could handle my newly found torque? I would prefer little to no cavitation, and wouldn’t mind dropping my RPMs a bit, back to 7700-7800 range, as I spin the OEM at 8200 RPM wide open.

I was thinking of a bigger Solas, maybe even the Dynafly 15/22 (with the big root). However, Jerry of GreenHulk said I definitely don't want to be using a Solas, as they cavitate badly on hole shot (as I am seeing). According to Jerry I will want a Skat 3 blade like the one used on 1800 N/A skis using an R&D reflash (which is comparable to my V-tech Stage 2):

http://www.4-tecperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_168_184&products_id=1830

Any suggestions from you guys would be greatly appreciated!

Next thing I am going to try this week is to repitch the OEM up by 1-2 degrees at the trailing edge to see if I can drop the RPM a bit, while I look for a used Skat to purchase for more testing. But I may have to live with the OEM impeller after all...

Also, I'm finally getting my ballast bags tomorrow, so... work and weather permitting - there will be more data coming in soon!

Overall, so far I like the Vtech Stage 2 mod to the point that I am now going to work around it and tune everything else I can.

And here you are:
(my fat a$$ wakeboarding in balmy 40 sth water of the Meramec last Sunday )

 

[Speedling]

I personally think 15/22 is a BIT too much prop unless you plan on another mod or two. If it brings the rpm down a bit from peak, then you have room to grow though!
The Solas I believe is meant to be a decent all around impeller, which means it's gonna sacrifice a bit here and there, but is overall very solid. The Skat I don't know much about so go for it and let us know! better your money than mine! LOL

 

[Higgy]

I really don't have anything to add here except to say that I've been following this thread religiously and want to encourage you to keep tweaking and posting. I've got an SX192 that I am hoping to squeeze some more power out of. I was not even aware of the Vtech Maptuner until you posted this. So far my plan for my little yamaha is ribbon delete, Fizzle Factory intercooler, R&D tune, impellor upgrade... monster wheel... of course finances permitting. It's kind of a dream list actually. So far all I've managed to accomplish is pulling the ribbon. So that kinda tells you my progress rate.
Anyway... keep up the good work and keep us posted!

 

[Speedling]

I do have to say that all this is encouraging because having the mr1 all locked up as far as the ecu goes is dissapointing. Getting the single engine boats to go faster and faster is awesome but now we need to see what the dual engine boats can pull off!

 

[swatski]

Since my 13/19 Solas Concord was cavitating out of control in Stage 2 ECU tune, I went back to repitch the OEM and swapped it back on. I also put the plastic insert wear ring in with it, can't stand the noise otherwise... but that's a different story, doesn't matter here.

So, I had my OEM impeller repitched on trailing edge (going from 13/19 to something like 13/21, maybe 22) - way more aggressive, resulting in dramatically different feel and getting only about 7000RPM max now in stage 2... (down from 8100 or so). Basically NO cavitation at the low end, which is nice in itself, but, I will have to dial it back, obviously, to get the top end back. What I don't understand, however, is that I am getting THE SAME top RPM (about 7000) with either stage 2 or backup tune… ???

To be sure, getting there is a very different - there is a huge difference in handling between stage 2 and backup – the boat pulls very noticably stronger, not question it generates a lot more torque in stage 2... But it tops off at the same RPM… – I don’t understand it…

Are AFRs and such the same at WOT in stage 2 and backup? Or – what else could be limiting…
I’m just curious, as understanding this will help me dial the boat in. I emailed Jerry and the Swedish team, so will see what they say...

P.s. Happy Thanksgiving All!

 

[swatski]

Running late for Thanksgiving dinner...

Here is what Jerry said, I have to say, it makes a lot of sense to me:

Hi Wojciech, I will let Jonatan answer the specific questions about the tune. My feeling though is that the timing at WOT between the two tunes are very close therefore you won't see much, if any difference in top RPM/speed. The difference will mostly be in the acceleration. Lets see what Jon has to say though.

 

[Noko]

@swatski Ok, I'll be the first to try this on a dual engine boat. Can you give my the info on where you bought the maptuner and the flash for the ECU? I may not have info until June or Aug. My boat is in Wis and I live in AK. I'm going to do the ribbon delete in about a month. My boat is a CARB boat and I'm just hoping to get it to normal boat rpm's and speed. It will be interesting.

 

[swatski]

@Noko Cool. I would contact Jerry at <pwcperformancestore@gmail.com> with all questions. He is one of the most responsive people I ever done business with. I decided to go with the V-tech and would do it again.

I don't have a good idea what's involved in CARB, I think it is a different ECU though.

Vtech has been more popular with Sea Doo, while the majority of Yamaha ECU reflashes are R&D - where you just send you ECU to be reflashed. Either way, these are tried and true mods that have worked extremely well for jet skis. I think that with the boats one needs to consider the weight and wet-surface limitations and can not expect the results to be nearly as radical. I also find that the top speed gains are somewhat modest, but boy, getting there - is a different story! And the results are exhilarating in that regard.

I would buy this mod again in a heartbeat, and really like the flexibility of the Vtech Maptuner. For example, you're running in Stage 2 mode but find yourself boating somewhere you can't get higher octane fuel, just grab your Maptuner and flash back to stock.
It does come at a price of some inconvenience, as you have to load up the tunes etc, and may need to do some troubleshooting with the initial set up.

I carry a set of jumper cables, BTW, as the battery connections that come with it are too short.

If I was doing it all over again, I would start with the ribbon delete for sure, costs nothing but an aftermarket air filter/flame arrestor. As much as the impeller upgrades, I find the OEM impeller to be quite versatile, actually.

But the reflash made me think I will actually keep this boat. I am reserving my final judgement until I'm done playing with it under load - with ballast bags.

 

[swatski]

Long story short, after uploading the stage 2 map the boat is a different animal. Acceleration is MUCH better, better throttle response, and the RPM's are topping out at around 8200 with OEM impeller. The gains in mph are on par with RPM gains, and I have seen 48.3mph top speed on my SX190 with aftermarket tower, bimini, a ton of soundproofing, 9-foot keel shield, and not particularly clean hull...

For comparison, per BoatTests:

Top speed for the Yamaha AR192 (2014-) is 48.6 mph, burning 21.35 gallons per hour (gph)
0 - 30mph 5.1s
Top speed for the Yamaha SX190 (2016-) is 43.2 mph, burning 11.9 gallons per hour (gph)
0-30mph 6.3s

Due to leaner AFRs and advanced timing, ECU stage 2 reflash provides remarkably better fuel economy during cruising conditions, which should be over 20%. One does need to use high octane fuel though, 91 - 93.

Regarding top speeds, my understanding is that the design of the Yamaha hull has been basically tuned to go no faster than 52-53mph. So, within reason, no matter how much power you put back there, the hull will only go 53 mph. I heard that to go faster you would have to take the boat out of the water and have the hull undergo some major body work and straightening (true-ing) to make it go any faster. That is why there are few performance mods for Yamaha boats. It would cost a lot more than the average owner would want to shell out to make these babies go any faster.

 

[swatski]

Here are some easy post-Thanksgiving reads:

On the merits of torque and displacement:
http://www.boatsandplaces.com/secrets-of-horsepower/

And maybe the simplest explanation of how the impeller pitching and repitching can work for you (...what the impeller shops do not want you to know... LOL):
http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65227
and
http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20995


Still searching for the elusive 1.8l Yamaha powerband curves... it's a freaking unicorn.... But I think there is a practical way around it by playing with the impeller pitches and boat loads.
Incidentally, based on the behavior of the rev limiter in different Yamaha 1.8l setups, including the new SVHO, the peak torque has got to be generated around the 7800 RPM... With the SVHO, they apparently rev limit it to 7200 RPM, presumably for USCG compliance with top speed, but allow it to rev to 7800 RPM during hard acceleration (for 10-15sec)...

 

[Speedling]

I have my own prop bending gauge and plate setup like the greenhulk threads you linked. Problem is that just bending it can cause cavitation as you are also bending it away from the center of the hub. I wouldn't go more than one degree. The gauge is cool though and it was interesting to see how bad my oem impellers were.

 

[swatski]

I'm told that Solas Dynafly design is particularly prone to that for some reason, and the general rule is that with any increase in pitch there is some increase in OD. From what I see with the OEM, it still fits into the OEM wear ring no problem after about 2 degree repitch on the trailing edge.

The gauge is cool, and it is amazing to see how out of wack these things are out of the factory!...

Its kind of fun messing with it and seeing a difference in RPM that a smooth 1 mm bias on the trailing edge can make... Kind of unreal.
That said, I don't think I would be comfortable messing with any of the leading edges, or my other Solas Concord any edge for that matter... just seems too difficult for a DIY project.
OEM trailing edge is relatively easy.

 

[swatski]

Finally, I got to do some ballast testing today... The conditions were pretty lousy, mostly rainy and drizzly, temps in high 30s, some wind...
...I'm trying to do as much as I can though, as comes December... will have to prep for my subspecialty board exams...

Long story short: pulled some 1800 lbs of ballast in my stage 2 flashed SX190... which kind of blew me away... given all this with my crummy OEM impeller (...which I was repitching, again, in my garage this morning to take some trailing edge off...). The boat pulled like a mule, going over 35sth mph in no time...

Well, the whole story though, my results are incomplete... I was alone, and so cold, I was loosing it... the setup took several hours and I couldn't feel my hands or feet... Sooo - when I tried to reflash back to stock for comparative runs I fumbled the cables and shorted something which locked my maptuner... Was still able to use a recovery file and got back to the dock, but basically all my testing today was done with stage 2 mapping, so I have no comparison. That said, I doubt I would be able to move the way I did without the ECU flash... And the engine sounds great doing it.

Once I get ahold of a correct prop, and it is going to be most likely a new Skat, I think I'm in business!... (for wake surfing)

Must say, it was an interesting experience... The 1800 lbs ballast made the boat sit so low, the rub rail was slightly submerged at the stern... I had a 550 and a 350 bag on the swim platform, another 550 sitting in the back on the fuel hatch, and a 350 on top on the ski locker. The pictures are awful as my hands were frozen, but they just give some general idea:






I could not really dial the wake in being alone on the boat, and I was in a shallow cove, about 5-8ft which sucked.

Here - I was going too slow, I think:


And then - too fast...


But with some tweaking I definitely see the potential!

 

[swatski]

Here is a really crappy clip, just to show how it pulled... And I like the sound a lot more.

 

[robert843]

Wholly cow that is a crap ton of ballast!

 

[swatski]

Wholly cow that is a crap ton of ballast!

@robert843 Yes, I know... With me on board that would be an equivalent of what? ...like 11-12 adults...
I was blown away, honestly did not think I would go very far with that kind of a load... I did fill the bags in a sequence, and just kept going... Actually, I do not think I maxed out on the load... But, no plan getting more bags, I think I got plenty for this boat, now it is just about the layout, and dialing in the list, speed, getting a correct prop.

Speaking of props, all that ballast hauling was done with my OEM prop, which... leaves room for improvement. I have had it professionally refurbished, and then pitched and re-repitched myself three or four times changing the trailing edge angle... I think I pretty much went full circle, back to where it was from the factory... LOL . It's an okay prop, very versatile, but it vibrates too much and is too noisy.

For the next round of testing, I just ordered the R&D Skat impeller with the splined removal/install tool. That was a recommendation from Jerry of GreenHulk.
http://www.4-tecperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1830

I think my Solas Concord, which cavitates out of control in stage 2, will go back to Impros. I talked to David, he said he will think about it and repitch, or give me a trade-in and replace it with something else. We will see.

Part of the problem is, the way I see it, there is just so little information on proping the Yamaha jet boats. And then - far less on flashed 1.8l N/A engines, as all the jet skiers that do mods generally like the SC versions.

 

[swatski]

I have found an oil change kit for under $30 at the local Yamaha (Surdyke Motorsports, Chesterfield).
I think it's called Yamalube 10W-40 PWC Watercraft Oil Change Kit. Comes with 3 qt of oil, which is just about perfect, and the filter (filter made in Thailand, not Japan... like it says on the box). With all my testing I have been changing the oil every few hours.

 

[swatski]

Sorry about multiple posts, but a quick comment on my Maptuner lock-up is warranted... I have communicated with Vtech Michel and Jonatan over the weekend, they are very responsive even though they were in Thailand and away from their shop. They have been able to unlock my Maptuner remotely, and are also sending me a new tuner as a replacement (its a new/improved version of their firmware).
Couldn't ask for better customer service.