Vtech Maptuner ECU reflash - first impressions

[swatski]

@Noko The ribbon delete is a great start IMHO, that was the single best thing I have done to my boat. The easiest gain of 3 mph and some 200 RPM, yet. No idea what will happen with your CARB version... But, it costs nothing but your labor, the ECU does not need to be touched, and you can put it back in. Make sure you remove the black seal around the ribbon along.

 

[Noko]

@Noko The ribbon delete is a great start IMHO, that was the single best thing I have done to my boat. The easiest gain of 3 mph and some 200 RPM, yet. No idea what will happen with your CARB version... But, it costs nothing but your labor, the ECU does not need to be touched, and you can put it back in. Make sure you remove the black seal around the ribbon along.

Whats the black seal? And I bought the metal ring insert from R & D. Is that needed? I stated in a previous post to someone else that the ribbon delete was questionable. Thanks for info proving me wrong.

Your info on the ECU mapping is great. Thanks for sharing.

 

[swatski]

@Noko Here are some good pictures of the black seal/gasket around the ribbon at the beginning of that thread:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/mo-powah-sx190-flame-arrestor-removal.7639/#post-132243

Here is what happens with the seal - if its left behind:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/sx-192-mods.6550/page-3
Check I think page 5 of that thread for pictures of engine damage.

I think it all boils down to what is limiting your engines from achieving full power. It may not be the air intakes, who knows, especially with a CARB model... But if your engines are not getting all the air they can use, you will be amazed at a difference after ribbon delete. I know I was.

 

[swatski]

Alright, I give up (looking).
Can anyone share information on Yamaha 1.8l engine power/torque curves? What are the peak RPMs?
Either NA or SC really... Should be available somewhere?

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Alright, I give up (looking).
Can anyone share information on Yamaha 1.8l engine power/torque curves? What are the peak RPMs?
Either NA or SC really... Should be available somewhere?

I don't think Yamaha published a graph but your best bet is to look at boat test.com

 

[swatski]

I don't think Yamaha published a graph but your best bet is to look at boat test.com

Thanks, but I don't think they ever post real hard data. It is fun reading, but boy, do they say darndest things from time to time .

So - I don't think Yamaha publishes hp numbers, but is it really such a secret?

 

[Murf'n'surf]

I don't think it's a secret, they just don't want to play the inflated numbers game like Sea-poo so they are better off keeping their stats quiet.

 

[swatski]

I don't think it's a secret, they just don't want to play the inflated numbers game like Sea-poo so they are better off keeping their stats quiet.

We know what the maximum hp is for every MR1 and 1.8l engine version used in these boats. But, is it at 7,800 RPM factory limit?

I would like to know how much more torque (if any) does one stand to gain from pushing the motor past factory RPM rev limit. I'm just a bit puzzled there is not a published curve I can find... Or, how much torque, if any, does one lose going down from 7800 to say 7400. I understand it all depends on many factors, but a simple chart would go a long way in identifying soem trends. One of the obvious "advantages" of the new 1.8l engine (vs MR1) is its flatter torque/power curve. But I kind of want to see the chart for that...

Working with the Vtech guys on my little ECU reflashing project here, I don't think I want to push for more RPMs at this point. I would rather start playing with the impeller pitch. Which is where the rubber hits the road for me... That said, I don't want to miss something obvious in the power band I can't see...

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Look at Rivas kits for max rpm levels??

 

[swatski]

Look at Rivas kits for max rpm levels??

Sky is the limit if you want to get into valve train, piston and race fuels. More revs more power.

I would like to stay close to the factory rev limit. With the Vtech Stage 2 versions of the reflashes I have tested Im hitting well above the facotry RPM limit, up to 8200RPM, which is about as high as want to go. The reason I would like to interrogate torque curves is to identify a target RPM (in a range not requiring engine mods, so - as close to factory limit as possible) for best torque, and then work it backwards from there.

I think there is also a limit to which we can learn from jet skis. For example, I find that a fast spinning de-pitched impeller that works great with stock ECU mode will caviate at launch and low speeds with Stage 2 ECU flash, presumably due to the boat's weigth. That is not necessarily true for the skis, at least not nearly to the same extent.

At any rate, does anyone have access to torque/power curves for the 1.8l engines they could share here?

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Lower your oil to just above the low mark. This is a common tip from RIVA when doing stage kits

 

[Speedling]

Rip the motor out and get to an engine dyno.
Don't wanna do that much work for it? No one else does either.

 

[swatski]

Did some more testing today. The weather was kind of awful, but wanted to see how these different programs would feel on a blustery day…

I was able to switch programs on the water going through several versions of Stage 2 reflash, and stock, each run about 4-5 miles of random river running, before I got chased out by the weather. Running 93 octane.
I was only getting up to about 8000 RPM today, as opposed to 8150 - 8200 in better weather… But there was a lot of chop and wind.

One of the Stage 2 versions seems to run the smoothest of what I tested so far, has the best feel overall in throttle travel and acceleration. Will do some metrics, but not on a day like this.

Next, I also want to try to load the boat with weight for further testing. Kind of curious about it. Hard to find "human ballast" willing to partake this time of year...

Given I was only getting to about 8000 RPM in crappy weather today, maybe I do not need to worry about getting a more aggressively pitched impeller? I may settle down with my repitched Concord at the end of the day, but I'm still waiting to hear from David at Impros.

Regarding torque curves, the one man that is in the know could not help... that's from Jerry of Greenhulk:
"Hi Wojciech, unfortunately Yamaha does not provide dyno info on any of their engines. They don't even release a HP rating."

 

[swatski]

More testing today, gorgeous day, but daylight is getting so short...

Here are some numbers I would like to share. Please keep in mind, this is just for fun, these "measurements" have so many caveats, it is not even funny...

After I got to my lake, about 2 mile run down the river, I have done 8 short runs each in Stock ("Backup" file) and Stage 2 ("103" file in my Maptuner) mode. Roughly 1/8 of a mile or so, whatever it takes to go from 0 to 40mph and then some, reverse, wait for the wake to subside, get in a position, and run in the opposite direction. Would like to do more, but it got dark fast...

I tried to get times from 0 to 20, 30 and 40mph, but my 20s were all over the place, so I gave up.

Here is the lake, you can see the water was beautiful, almost glass.


Maptuner connected to ECU and powered from the battery with jumping cables... It takes about 15-20 min to perform one reflash.


Running a 3/4 full tank of 93 octane, just me on the boat, have about 250lbs of sound deadening, heavy tower, full size bimini, full ski locker, 9ft keel shield, etc.

Here are the numbers (average+/- st dev, n=8 each):

____________ 0-30mph (sec) __ 0-40mph (sec)
Stock ECU_____ 9.3 +/-1.0______ 13.1 +/-0.9
Stage 2 ECU____ 7.7 +/-1.3______ 11.5 +/-0.5

(p-values are 0.01 and 0.002)

Boy, now that I look at it, these numbers are all over the place... Oh, well. I basically gunned the boat from a standing start. I get a lot of cavitation at low end, especially with Stage 2, which probably skews the numbers towards less of a difference. But, it is what it is...

BTW - I remembered to look up Boattest.com data - it is a bit different. They are citing 0-30mph at 6.8sec for AR190 and 5.1sec for 192... I have no idea how they get that... they must have less cavitation?

Whatever, I view these data as just indicating that the reflash gives a pretty substantial gain in power/acceleration.

For top speed, one seems to get somewhere around 3-4mph gain with reflash, but really impossible to compare fairly as the Stock ECU limits the revs at 7,800, and I do hit it with my boat in the config as above, albeit I do not think it would go much further.

The real question is, will the Stage 2 ECU reflash let me pull more ballast? Hope to get to it soon...

 

[sstegh]

Where are you testing?

 

[swatski]

Meramec river, Sunset Hills, MO. About a mile down the river from George Winter park.
It was a beautiful evening today, and not a single boat around, I think that people putting in at GW are afraid to get out into the river as it was very shallow. Better now after these rains.

 

[sstegh]

I know it well. The enterance to that area gets pretty shallow, I imagine its almost impossible to get in there with the water level as it is.

 

[swatski]

Easy to do with our boats! But, one does need to stay on plane through that entrance...
Once you in, there are two "lakes" that are connected and you are in 20+ feet of water!

 

[swatski]

According to Jerry of Greenhulk, Boattest.com is using a Stalker ATS radar gun which very accurately measures acceleration data . ...not going to happen here, LOL.
He also points out low end numbers, especially 0-20, are definitely skewed by cavitation. It may be time to look at playing with impellers on the boat. If I figure out some free time this weekend, I will put my repitched Solas Concord back on, see what it will do for me. That is also the impeller I will use for towing.

On a different note, the other day I took the stock air filter box off and was surprised to find it actually did make a small difference in Stage 2 ECU mode, a gain of about 50RPM on top, running without the filter (no difference observed in stock ECU mode). Nothing to write home about, but at this point I think I will just buy an aftermarket flame arrestor type filter, as many here have done, and be done with it...

 

[Murf'n'surf]

You should come up with a standard start by slowly engaging the throttles. Slamming them to the WOT stop will surely cause cavitation. Engage the throttles while starting a count like ..."5...4...3...2...1" that should give you a nice acceleration without cavitation.