***WARNING*** 2015-18 YAMAHA “AR” BOAT OWNERS WITH FORWARD SWEPT WAKEBOARD TOWERS

[Murf'n'surf]

You have to remember that fixing the problem under warranty is admission of fault.

 

[J-RAD]

XTP makes OEM parts and does not handle individual customer business or complains. Or so they say. Individual customers are re-directed to their sister company, Monster Towers.
XTP OEM site has been conspicuously down.

That said, locker lid, nav light, horn, chair base, wet locker latch, windshield panel etc. - those are all Yamaha parts.

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This is true, however it may not exempt XTP from being included as a part of the litigation...

I keep thinking there ought to be a petition spread out, even if its just across this forum. Something Yamaha owners who have seen or experienced issues with their tower's (Not necessarily cartographic failure) could list the problem and add the signature to the complaint. Or perhaps the litigation ought to be more broad reaching and include the other problems/complaints listed?

Many who purchase Yamaha boats are 1st time boat owners. If you're like me, you've worked and waited for the "someday" to come where you could purchase your own boat. I'd call it a life goal achieved... and we achieved it with a Yamaha. Additionally, many on this forum are members because they have a great pride of ownership. Its difficult to hear about the brand you've had such pride in is acting with such disregard.

My point is this: Complaints like this are reaching their most loyal customers. It feels like flat out betrayal... Just because this tower issue has yet to affect me doesn't matter. They're treating a member(s) of the Yamaha family poorly and that is offensive... especially when that person owns your same boat, the boat you love owning.

It's disheartening because I like my boat and everyone else should like it too damn it!

So far, I've only experience minor issues that I've been able to easily resolve, but it causes me to dread any warrantee type issue. I wish someone from Yamaha would read thru this whole damn thread and see the results of their poor behavior...

 

[Bill D]

That is an excellent post @J-RAD. I agree with many of the points you have made here.

 

[J-RAD]

That is an excellent post @J-RAD. I agree with many of the points you have made here.

Thank you!

 

[96Pirate]

I have been following this post over the past month and I am very sorry you and your family are going through this ordeal @swatski. I am just very greatful that no one was seriously injured. I cannot get over the fact that Yamaha is not correcting this, for your situation, but also for others. I know Yamaha were the best selling boats in their class when my '07 came out. Not sure if they are still leading but they are probably still up there in sales. Having said that it is my guess that they feel they do have the sales volume to look past this. As incorrect, IMHO it is. They are just waiting for something more serious to happen. And that's just not right. Please step up Yamaha and correct this issue.

As for what may have happened, here are my thoughts. I have no doubt, based on the pictures above that as diligent I believe you to be @swatski that you did check the knobs before leaving for Bimini and they were seated properly like in the pictures you posted recently. My guess is that because these knobs do not appear to seat very far within the insert that they started backing out after the rough water. As they backed out far enough the weight of the tower started putting pressure on the threads and my have caused them to strip out. Once they got too far gone they let go and the tower dropped. I too feel that you would not be able to strip them by manually turning the knob. But that opinion is solely based on my one encounter with these towers. So I feel like weight and pressure may have cause the stripping. In my opinion the length of the knob may be too blame if it is not penetrating the insert far enough. And that is on Yamaha, not you or anyone else.

I certainly hope things work out for you and pray that nothing more serious happens to anyone else. For now I am keeping my '07.

 

[swatski]

My guess is that because these knobs do not appear to seat very far within the insert that they started backing out after the rough water. As they backed out far enough the weight of the tower started putting pressure on the threads and my have caused them to strip out. Once they got too far gone they let go and the tower dropped. I too feel that you would not be able to strip them by manually turning the knob. But that opinion is solely based on my one encounter with these towers. So I feel like weight and pressure may have cause the stripping. In my opinion the length of the knob may be too blame if it is not penetrating the insert far enough. And that is on Yamaha, not you or anyone else.

@96Pirate I couldn't agree more! I think this is absolutely, most likely, exactly - what happen.

This scenario could readily be tested of course; I am POSITIVE the results would be reproducible, albeit not all the towers may be affected the same way.
(Not that I'm encouraging anyone to be so foolish as to attempt it in their own AR boats; let's just say - I have done enough testing, proof of principle if you will, that should suffice)

The irony here is, if there were more severe injuries or death involved, Yamaha would be forced to the table. But, given no one died, the next embodiment of their AR tower (which will no doubt be modified to increase safety - based at least in part on the ideas contributed here by various members of this online collective) will be passed around as a product of Yamaha continuous QI process...

You are welcome, Yamaha.

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[J-RAD]

@Williamsone46 Oh please, do tell me more.
View attachment 62463
I would like to understand. Did I say something wrong? Am I being unfair? Have I misunderstood Yamaha warranty process I've received so far? Should I be a satisfied customer?
If you were in my position, what would you do?

If I am in the wrong here I would really want to know. I'll be the first to apologize.

The way I see it, I've approached this situation as open minded about the process as they get, seeking ANY resolution that makes sense. I also went ABOVE AND BEYOND to deliver all the broken tower parts back to Yamaha as I was told they needed those to run their "diagnostics". For what? To be first left hanging, and then insulted by what they call customer service?


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@Williamsone46 if I'm not mistaken, is a current Yamaha rep. Who a 1-1/2 yrs ago was the sales rep at the dealership who I purchased my boat thru. He was a great guy to work with and a Yamaha boat owner himself.

I would welcome his input if he's willing to offer it? His are the ears we hope such discussions reach and probably not a stranger to warrantee matters. But clearly there is some discord with your comment on Yamaha's warrantee service... we being the consumer may have some bias. However, I would say in this instance, @swatski has had more of an interest in investigating and informing on the cause to the point it can be remedied, than a more selfish resolution. If we can lend an impartial ear he may be able to offer some clarification to how Yamaha handles such matters... or perhaps not if it falls outside his jurisdiction...?

Regardless, @swatski , he may be someone you could pose questions to in private on the topic?

 

[swatski]

@Williamsone46 if I'm not mistaken, is a current Yamaha rep. Who a 1-1/2 yrs ago was the sales rep at the dealership who I purchased my boat thru. He was a great guy to work with and a Yamaha boat owner himself.

I would welcome his input if he's willing to offer it? His are the ears we hope such discussions reach and probably not a stranger to warrantee matters. But clearly there is some discord with your comment on Yamaha's warrantee service... we being the consumer may have some bias. However, I would say in this instance, @swatski has had more of an interest in investigating and informing on the cause to the point it can be remedied, than a more selfish resolution. If we can lend an impartial ear he may be able to offer some clarification to how Yamaha handles such matters... or perhaps not if it falls outside his jurisdiction...?

Regardless, @swatski , he may be someone you could pose questions to in private on the topic?

I agree. I certainly would want to know his views!
I believe @Williamsone46 posted several comments in this thread that were subsequently removed. In this context, I'm not sure sniping at posts with "dislikes" is the most informative approach. But, hey - it is more than the rest of Yamaha has offered, so far, in writing or otherwise.

^^^ Please disregard, with my apologies to @Williamsone46.

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[BigAbe75]

@Williamsone46 posted several comments in this thread that were subsequently removed

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I don't know anything about that, of course. I just wanted to mention how often the dislike flag gets fat fingered on accident. Don't know if it was, but it may have been.

 

[McMark]

I've fat fingered the dislike a few times but always realized and undid the rating.

 

[Minh Nguyen]

Just saw this thread and kinda read thru all of your posts @swatski. Sorry to hear the troubles you're going thru with this tower collapse. I was just thinking about the possibility of it falling last time out when my wife was pulling me and the kids on the tube. I hope Yamaha makes it right to you by covering ALL expenses relating to medical bills and repair cost. And hopefully they will have a fix to prevent it from happening with existing owners.

 

[96Pirate]

@96Pirate This scenario could readily be tested of course; I am POSITIVE the results would be reproducible, albeit not all the towers may be affected the same way.
(Not that I'm encouraging anyone to be so foolish as to attempt it in their own AR boats; let's just say - I have done enough testing, proof of principle if you will, that should suffice)

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So this reminds me of a video, posted on this forum multiple times, of what I recall to be a 212x being tested in some pretty severe waves launching the boat vertically a number of times. I do not recall who was performing the test but is this standard practice for all models and all years? Or was this test performed by an independent shop? Seems to me if these boats were tested in this manner that this issue would have most likely revealed itself.

 

[djetok]

I think that if Yamaha warranties a windshield of one unit that made the trip why not another. This would be one point I would make with my legal team.

You also can't say don't go to bimini as Yamaha did that as well and made a commercial about it. From what was reported as the waves were on the trip. It was not that bad, if it were @Bruce and others would have delayed the crossing like they have before. #yamaha needs to step whether it be publicly or privately. If it's a denial they need to state why and not approve other warranty of similar issues. As stated above they have already approved others on the same trip.

 

[swatski]

So this reminds me of a video, posted on this forum multiple times, of what I recall to be a 212x being tested in some pretty severe waves launching the boat vertically a number of times. I do not recall who was performing the test but is this standard practice for all models and all years? Or was this test performed by an independent shop? Seems to me if these boats were tested in this manner that this issue would have most likely revealed itself.

They used to do this, but OBVIOUSLY not anymore. Too bad.
There is NO WAY my AR could withstand half the beating that test boat in the Yamaha video was taking.

There was a video at one time around 2008-2009 with the AR230 - Yamaha sea testing - jumping serious waves, it disappeared quickly but resurfaces from time to time. There are still some still shots remaining:

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[Stevenpigsooie]

I've been following this closely since I too own a 2016 AR 240.
Why isn't the dealership more involved? I realize it's not exactly the same, but I work in the medical field and typically when a patient contacts their insurance company regarding denied care they are unsuccessful. But if the doctor's office contacts the insurance company there is a formal process to appeal denied care.
Shouldn't the dealership be involved and advocating for the boat owner? I've yet to experience a warranty claim but I'm sure my time is coming. Hope it works out in your favor @swatski

 

[swatski]

I think that is Yamaha warranties a windshield of one unit that made the trip why not another. This would one point I would make with my legal team.

You also can't say don't go to bimini as Yamaha did that as well and made a commercial about it. From what was reported as the waves were on the trip. It was not that bad, if it were @Bruce and others would have delayed the crossing like they have before. #yamaha needs to step whether it be publicly or privately. If it's a denial they need to state why and not approve other warranty of similar issues. As stated above they have already approved others on the same trip.

What @Murf'n'surf said. Pretty simple, really.

You have to remember that fixing the problem under warranty is admission of fault.

It's bullshit company if you ask me.
Really shame on them. I kept my mouth shut - up until their 20 y.o. customer service guru finally called me back and told me Yamaha was done diagnosing my accident: I could take my boat and go jump in the lake.

Knowing what I know now, I should have stopped right where I was when the tower fell, call The Coast Guard and get medevaced.

I guess I just don't roll like that.

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[djetok]

What @Murf'n'surf said. Pretty simple, really.


It's bullshit company if you ask me.
Really shame on them. I kept my mouth shut - up until their 20 y.o. customer service guru finally called me back and told me Yamaha was done diagnosing my accident: I could take my boat and go jump in the lake.

Knowing what I know now, I should have stopped right where I was when the tower fell, call The Coast Guard and get medevaced.

I guess I just don't roll like that.

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You can't just flat deny one windshield and approve another. If so you are owed an explanation. Are they saying the windshield broke because of the tower might have fallen in it. After it fell on you.

 

[haknslash]

I don't know anything about that, of course. I just wanted to mention how often the dislike flag gets fat fingered on accident. Don't know if it was, but it may have been.

I really wished the [USERGROUP=3]@Administrative[/USERGROUP] could add a "reason" for the dislike. Sort of like how you do for a post deletion. It would help posters understand why they added a dislike. I've seen it pop up on posts that really have me questioning why someone disliked a post and would help the people that accidentally fat fingered it catch it before being submitted.

 

[swatski]

Why isn't the dealership more involved?

My dealer was told by Yamaha they were handling this directly. I was independently told the same.

I was told to bring the boat (with all the parts) to the dealer, which I did. Yamaha sent an expert - the technical rep - to perform the analysis.

That person apparently set in the boat for half an hour taking pictures and typing on his little laptop.

I was then informed by Yamaha (customer service) that they found no manufacturing defects in any part of my boat, but a partially cross threaded bolt in the tower lock - implying my fault. All warranty claims were summarily denied.

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[swatski]

You can't just flat deny one windshield and approve another. If so you are owed an explanation. Are they saying the windshield broke because of the tower might have fallen in it. After it fell on you.

I could not possibly agree more! Believe me, I am so bull shit - I can't describe it.

The interesting part is - the tower falling did not damage anything in my boat besides causing some gelcoat damage. Yamaha asked about it, they know it.

Their denial of warranty coverage on parts in my boat they routinely cover elsewhere speaks volumes. It totally exposes their approach.

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