***WARNING*** 2015-18 YAMAHA “AR” BOAT OWNERS WITH FORWARD SWEPT WAKEBOARD TOWERS

[djetok]

I don't know if this is the same number but I would go up the chain. If not lawyer up. It looks pretty easy for a lawyer

 

[fireflymedic]

Not sure I would have bought a Yamaha if all this happened before I got mine. Also really glad now I bought used, I was kind of debating with my self if I shouldn't buy new for the warranty. It would have taken another year of saving but I could have. Now I would never recommend new yamaha as the only reason to buy new is the warranty and apparently getting boat fixed with that is a cra* shot.

 

[Williamsone46]

I agree. I certainly would want to know his views!
I believe @Williamsone46 posted several comments in this thread that were subsequently removed. In this context, I'm not sure sniping at posts with "dislikes" is the most informative approach. But, hey - it is more than the rest of Yamaha has offered, so far, in writing or otherwise.

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I'm not sure where this dislike came from, although I don't agree with some of these posts I don't recall hitting dislike. When I have more time I go back through and find this post.

I removed my post because I didn't want to get into it with everyone not knowing the details. No offense I don't want to take your word as fact as so many have. I see so many commenting on Yamaha's response, although I have not seen anything from Yamaha on here...?

 

[BigN8]

I've kinda of been following along on this discussion and I was just wondering, has anyone else had a tower collapse or is this an isolated incident. I can't recall anyone else having this happen and I admit I am too lazy to go back through all 14 pages of this thread.

 

[Betik]

I've kinda of been following along on this discussion and I was just wondering, has anyone else had a tower collapse or is this an isolated incident. I can't recall anyone else having this happen and I admit I am too lazy to go back through all 14 pages of this thread.

• First collapse with injuries
• Multiple are observing the root cause which is believed to have lead to the collapse.

 

[djetok]

I'm not sure where this dislike came from, although I don't agree with some of these posts I don't recall hitting dislike. When I have more time I go back through and find this post.

I removed my post because I didn't want to get into it with everyone before I know the details. No offense I don't want to take your word as fact as so many have. I see so many commenting on Yamaha's response, although I have not seen anything from Yamaha on here...?

The tower is one thing. The windshield (which someone else that was on the trip got a warranty on ) They flat denied all claims. Swatski said they would not give any explanation as to why. I am sure that they are looking at this as a liability issue, rather than a customer.

 

[Betik]

They flat denied all claims. .

Yamaha even denied the warranty on the chair.

 

[Neutron]

Yes one collapse, some injuries as well as other multiple failures.
Yes it sucks that it fell but the problem still is there that even if it was user error,
Why on earth have a design that can be so easily crossthreaded in the first place and in turn kill someone

 

[swatski]

I'm not sure where this dislike came from, although I don't agree with some of these posts I don't recall hitting dislike. When I have more time I go back through and find this post.

I removed my post because I didn't want to get into it with everyone before I know the details. No offense I don't want to take your word as fact as so many have. I see so many commenting on Yamaha's response, although I have not seen anything from Yamaha on here...?

@Williamsone46 My apologies than!!!
I will go over the thread and remove my snarky comments later when I done at work! Thank you.
Yes, I can be an idiot.

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[swatski]

I've kinda of been following along on this discussion and I was just wondering, has anyone else had a tower collapse or is this an isolated incident. I can't recall anyone else having this happen and I admit I am too lazy to go back through all 14 pages of this thread.

Here is one w/ only 3 pages, lol
https://jetboaters.net/threads/forward-sweeping-tower-owners-please-check-your-lock-bolts.14514/

Some of the info maybe wrong as several mechanical engineers and machinists looked at this issue since, and there is a much better understanding of the issues involved - the internal threads are NOT aluminum.

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[Williamsone46]

Yes one collapse, some injuries as well as other multiple failures.
Yes it sucks that it felt but the problem still is there that even if it was user error,
Why on earth have a design that can be so easily crossthreaded in the first place and in turn kill someone

When you say "failures", what failed?

It's my understanding from this forum @swatski incident is an isolated incident. @swatski mentioned a number of times this could have been user error. In my personal opinion reading through what has been said in this thread unfortunately the user error combined with the conditions the boat was operated in caused this incident.

Others have mentioned the knobs backing out over the course of the season. In my opinion these knobs should be checked prior to every use, not a few times a season.

 

[Williamsone46]

@Williamsone46 My apologies than!!!
I will go over the thread and remove my snarky comments later when I done at work! Thank you.
Yes, I can be an idiot.

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I don't recall calling you an "idiot", sorry if I gave you that impression.

For the record I'm very sorry to hear this happened to you, and members of your family sustained emotional and or physical injuries!

 

[Neutron]

When you say "failures", what failed?

It's my understanding @swatski incident is an isolated incident. @swatski mentioned a number of times this could have been user error. In my personal opinion unfortunately the user error combined with the conditions the boat was operated in cause this incident.

Others have mentioned the knobs backing out over the course of the season. In my opinion these knobs should be checked prior to every use, not a few times a season.

Seat broke(unrelated to tower collapse)
Front anchor locker hatch broke off (unrelated to tower collapse)
I believe there were more items as well

 

[swatski]

In my personal opinion reading through what has been said in this thread unfortunately the user error combined with the conditions the boat was operated in caused this incident.

The user could have been the dealer or whoever touched the tower. Okay?

This is a BAD design, not withstanding absent warnings. Zero discussion of possible cross thread with a lock that is asking for it!!!!

Also - @ThatJeepGuy @ThatJeepGirl AR tower lock failed on one side, also in rough water.

That's two out of five AR towers in a single crossing. Seriously?????????

Let's not confuse issues here, please.

Do you really want to blame user error and conditions for something that no question is a substandard/ unsafe design??????


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[swatski]

In my opinion these knobs should be checked prior to every use, not a few times a season.

Dude, not only have I checked the fucking knobs, I posted the pictures of the knobs sitting flat inside the tower immediately prior to departure in Florida. It's right up here in this thread.

I have no idea what are you trying to say here but trying to put the blame on me here???

That is just silly.

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[J-RAD]

I don't know if I dare comment... If I can play mediator for a moment? I read thru the most recent comments and I may be interpreting the conversation between @swatski and @Williamsone46 a little bit differently and may be able to defuse things... Maybe?

1) I don't think @Williamsone46 was implying or suggesting that you in particular had not checked your knobs. I think that was made clear in previous posts. Perhaps post that had fallen back a few pages that @Williamsone46 had not had an opportunity to read...? I think it was being suggested that those others who witnessed their knobs loosening may not have checked theirs...? Obviously you and they are the best witness and testimony as to whether or not that's the case. His statement was more an opinion and less of an accusation. "...knobs should be checked prior to each use..."

2) I think @Williamsone46 is trying to take a fact of the matter approach to the tower failure. Much the way I think it was approached by the Yamaha technician did, which I think there is room to argue with... but perhaps @Williamsone46 isn't the one to target with that argument. I apologize @Williamsone46 if I painted you as a target by mentioning you were a Yamaha rep...

3) @Williamsone46 "Yamaha's response" that has been referenced is simply that of the response to @swatski's warrantee issues. Which the majority here seem to disagree with. Yamaha has not addressed this thread in person.

4) @swatski in my short perspective of the jeboaters.net forum appears to be a fondly regarded member of the community here and has over the course developed a solid reputation as someone who "knows their stuff" (not saying other members don't) but I think that why there is so much support to help him fight his fight.

5) @swatski I think @Williamsone46 is genuine in his sympathies for what occurred.

6) We all have the ability to speculate - Who's to blame? - What's the cause? - Why is Yamaha saying what they're saying? Facts of the case are, Yamaha has placed the blame on the "USER" in regards to the tower. They've made a judgement... according to their technician. I think the major question that everyone here has is what recourse is there to argue with against "their" technician? Does the opinion or testimony of their client have any measure? Can an independent party be requested for an opinion? Or after his denial is @swatski left to seek legal representation? Is it worth it for Yamaha to sour the relationship with a customer like him and so many others who respect his opinion.

My own thoughts: As I've said before... I like my boat (2016 AR240) and I feel like everyone else should too. But now I feel like I have "one of those boats"... one of the boats that has the tower the fell on" the guy". I don't know how to respond to that now, because I have doubts about how reliable it is, because I don't feel like the actual cause has been identified. Other's here, even engineers, have their doubts... Mine has never had a problem... but could it? @swatski says he checked his knobs, it's the general consensus that he would have known if he had cross threaded it. He believes in his mind his tower was erected properly. I put mine up and down after each outing and have felt confident I have it erected properly each time and never given it a second thought. @swatski left that day feeling the same way, right up until it fell on top of him. We can sit here and argue with one another and take sides for weeks... But what is the answer??? Who do we trust to give it to us?


Anyway... there's a lot of thoughts bouncing thru my head. I could probably write another page. I still love my boat... but I'd love it more if the tower's had a little more security. I think Yamaha would be wise to address the possibility that if it happened once and partially happened a number of more times and it could happen again. Perhaps a simple warning and throwing the responsibility the "user" to know about it, isn't a good idea... not everybody is as responsible as us here.

By the way, I happened across this picture on my phone that I took a while back for something unrelated. There is some general warning about keeping the knobs tight. At least on my boat... Sorry, it's cut off.

 

[fireflymedic]

Instead of that cable to stop the tower it should be a gas cylinder that slowly lets it down

 

[Bruce]

The primary issue here is that despite @swatski's precise, over the top maintenance and attention to detail his boat's tower, passenger seat and other items failed causing bodily and emotional harm.

The secondary and complicating issue is that instead of the quick repair to his boat that we hoped for Yamaha has determined that the repairs will not be be covered by either the still active factory warranty or the three year extended warranty that he purchased.

I know Dr. Swat personally, have seen ample evidence of his attention to detail, experienced the same water without harm to my boat or family and saw the damage to his boat.

This situation is simply unacceptable.

 

[swatski]

I like what @Bruce just said.

And no, I can not fathom Yamaha process. It should have been so different, quick, and easy process.
But - enough said. Reading some of the posts today, I don't want to start going in circles.


As far as the AR lock mechanism - IMO it needs additional safety at the least. You have all been forewarned, so at least something good came out of this discussion!

In that regard, I will be testing a couple of new mods/designs. So far, the best one is not mine and it came from @LOZBum. It is not ready for prime time quite yet (not to play coy!) but if it works - it's brilliant, super simple, and totally a "bolt-on". Beats several other ideas I've entertained. Stay tuned!

Thank you all for chiming in!

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[Betik]

Instead of that cable to stop the tower it should be a gas cylinder that slowly lets it down

Speaking of that "cable". I wish swatski has a picture of what happened to his cable. I could not believe my eyes when I saw it at Bimini sands.