***WARNING*** 2015-18 YAMAHA “AR” BOAT OWNERS WITH FORWARD SWEPT WAKEBOARD TOWERS

[Betik]

@Paul Early Thanks a bunch, really appreciate the advice! I must tell you, the level of support here in the forum continues to amaze me, members caring about others. That's been the main reason for me to stick around, and try to share my "newly acquired experience", to give something back.

You are absolutely correct (almost - barring the MO $5k cap). Incidentally, 5k would cover a replacement of the AR tower (uninstalled). But based on my quick review of parts fiches (and my dealer's work order which was never approved) fixing the boat to like new condition would run about twice the amount. Also need to factor in a necessary safety upgrade for the tower lock before I would sell or continue using the boat.

So, yeah, I do feel a bit stuck with this new boat of mine. Come to think of it.

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Can't you just file separate cases? Say the chair, anchor hatch, tower, etc ??

 

[Eric Ballard]

I'm a lawyer by day and not sure this claim is worthy of a lawyers time or expense. I would advise my client to file a small claims action which is usually capped around $10k in most states. It will cost you $100 bucks or so to file and serve Yamaha but it will cost them much more to send someone out to defend (In most states they cannot have an attorney appear in small claims). You have a contract (the warranty) and they are apparently in breach of that (the seat issue seems like a slam dunk). Let a judge decide. You have very little to lose and the more likely scenario is that they will either agree to repair if you drop the suit or not show up at the hearing and you will win by default. The forms and filing time would be less than you have invested in this thread. Go get em.

 

[robert843]

@swatski I have missed a bout 10 pages of this probably so it may have already been mentioned but if the damages are in the 10k range have you tried going into your insurance company and filing the claim for them to fix it and let them duke it out with Yamaha to get reimbursed. I know that is not an optimal plan posibly raising your rates but it seems like possibly an easier one on you and gets your boat fixed and you out of it. Kind of sucks you paid cash I would tell you to go do the play and trade thing to move to a e serries.

 

[Murf'n'surf]

The only possible action that has weight is for anyone who feels they have this problem please go to the USCG link I posted earlier. Submit your findings with photos and contact info. With enough complaints on an issue, they will investigate and possibly determine that the manufacturer needs to issue a recall.

 

[swatski]

@swatski I have missed a bout 10 pages of this probably so it may have already been mentioned but if the damages are in the 10k range have you tried going into your insurance company and filing the claim for them to fix it and let them duke it out with Yamaha to get reimbursed. I know that is not an optimal plan posibly raising your rates but it seems like possibly an easier one on you and gets your boat fixed and you out of it. Kind of sucks you paid cash I would tell you to go do the play and trade thing to move to a e serries.

@robert843 Good points.
Regarding insurance, I considered that and might even been reimbursed for a deductible etc (albeit possibly complicated by issues with subrogation clauses). But with my insurance (and I even have Bahamas endorsement!) just don't really feel like I want to blow it on a bunch of warranty repairs. All parts that broke were faulty factory parts, no "Acts of God" to blame just poor factory quality issues.

Regarding a trade in for e-tower boat - certainly an option, in fact I put it on the table on day 1! But so far they are giving me the cold shoulder, and I'm losing my enthusiasm for Yamaha products.

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[Paul Early]

Can't you just file separate cases? Say the chair, anchor hatch, tower, etc ??

This is likely a good solution. Do the chair first as this seems the most obviously covered item. Sue for the full $5k. If they come to the table, negotiate the tower issue with them as well. If not, take your $5k judgment and file another one on the tower. In most states you can recover all your filing and service fees as well. The point is, you will either wake them up and bring them to the table or you'll collect $5k. Can;t see the downside other than you have to front the filing and service costs.

I don;t see an attorney taking on this case on a contingent basis and it doesnt seem worth the hourly rate you will have to pay them to bring a case into superior court. The exception here is if there are enough similarly situated Plaintiffs that an attorney can get together to make one large case or even certify a class. That's not obvious yet, but these are newer boats and more of these claims may arise. If it's me, I go after them in small claims. Let them know you are serious.

 

[SCP1]

@robert843 Good points.
Regarding insurance, I considered that and might even been reimbursed for a deductible etc (albeit possibly complicated by issues with subjugation clauses). But with my insurance (and I even have Bahamas endorsement!) just don't really feel like I want to blow it on a bunch of warranty repairs. All parts that broke were faulty factory parts, no "Acts of God" to blame just poor factory quality issues.

Regarding a trade in for e-tower boat - certainly an option, in fact I put it on the table on day 1! But so far they are giving me the cold shoulder, and I'm losing my enthusiasm for Yamaha products.

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PM, me!

 

[swatski]

This is likely a good solution. Do the chair first as this seems the most obviously covered item. Sue for the full $5k. If they come to the table, negotiate the tower issue with them as well. If not, take your $5k judgment and file another one on the tower. In most states you can recover all your filing and service fees as well. The point is, you will either wake them up and bring them to the table or you'll collect $5k. Can;t see the downside other than you have to front the filing and service costs.

I don;t see an attorney taking on this case on a contingent basis and it doesnt seem worth the hourly rate you will have to pay them to bring a case into superior court. The exception here is if there are enough similarly situated Plaintiffs that an attorney can get together to make one large case or even certify a class. That's not obvious yet, but these are newer boats and more of these claims may arise. If it's me, I go after them in small claims. Let them know you are serious.

Very very well said!

And who knew @Betik, on top of the expansive qualities of genius, is also a brilliant legal mind.

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[Betik]

Very very well said!

And who knew @Betik, on top of the expansive qualities of genius, is also a brilliant legal mind.

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Is that the politically correct way of saying " manipulating SOB" ?

 

[CraigAR]

I just pulled down my tower for the first time (17' ar240) to install tower speakers and i must say that the design does suck. After seeing how it actually works, its now making me nervous. My bolt has a spring in it and you have to push it in just right before you can start threading it in. After having my son hold up the tower and myself putting the bolts back in i could wiggle the tower a little bit. Not sure if this is normal because ive never tried that before.

 

[Neutron]

I just pulled down my tower for the first time (17' ar240) to install tower speakers and i must say that the design does suck. After seeing how it actually works, its now making me nervous. My bolt has a spring in it and you have to push it in just right before you can start threading it in. After having my son hold up the tower and myself putting the bolts back in i could wiggle the tower a little bit. Not sure if this is normal because ive never tried that before.

The spring is so that it is not in contact when you raise the tower and doesnt get in the way. Its the only smart part of the mechanism

 

[Speedling]

Watching that video from Bruce again, and my last Lake Michigan trip in mind, I would say that those were a bit of chop on top of rollers. We don't get that on Lake Michigan really. We will get just bigger and bigger chop. I have found that sometimes changing speed a bit for example from 25 up to 30 and then back down or, turning slightly back and forth, will allow you to plane at slightly slower speeds overall and allow you to climb and cut easier through the bad stuff. It's not always best to hit the big stuff head on.
Back to the towers though, I know my tower isn't reassuring to me as I found when we went out last time on Lake Michigan. Boat did fine and as soon as we were actually moving, we all handled it just fine. The tower just bounces around too much for my liking. I can only imagine that single bolt getting stretched and smashed on the AR towers. Also, I would think the Aluminum would eventually start to strip out from vibration. Vibration is just a nasty thing.

 

[ThatJeepGuy]

After having my son hold up the tower and myself putting the bolts back in i could wiggle the tower a little bit. Not sure if this is normal because ive never tried that before.

@CraigAR there should be zero "wiggle" once the bolts are tight. The wiggle could cause the bolts to back out, in my opinion...

 

[McMark]

Is the wiggle in the front of the base or the back? Should be none at the back if the knobs are tight. There can be a little movement up front since these are pins.

 

[swatski]

I think I might have figured something out! - a ridiculously simple (yet very effective) mod/enhancement for this locking mechanism - to make it ten times safer.

Still working on it today, will try to post detail and pics tonight, hope I don't run out of time to test. Very promising! Stay tuned.

I'm not absolving Yamaha in any way! My ultimate goal is to force them to issue and/or design safety locks that work.

But in the meantime - I needed a "stop gap measure", and this could be a very effective and totally low budget TEMPORARY solution/mod.

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[djetok]

I think I might have figured something out! - a ridiculously simple (yet very effective) mod/enhancement for this locking mechanism - to make it ten times safer.
hope I don't run out of time to test. Very promising! Stay tuned.

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Does this mean new boat coming? Or just time in the day?

 

[CraigAR]

Ok, i will look to see if i can back the bolts out and get the tower adjusted a little better.

 

[Speedling]

Ya'll need to stop trying to fix and start freaking out and dumping the boat extemely cheap to me!

 

[swatski]

Okay, so I think I have come up with some pretty good workaround.
I have been working with a machine shop and they basically cleaned up and rejuvenated my bolts and internal thread inserts (inside the mounts/brackets) - to work like new. The insert/internal threads are shorter (minus approx. 2 threads that were stripped/cross threaded in my tower) but the guys reassured me this is going to be better than redrilling/reinstalling. Please bear with me!

First off, this is NOT meant to be a SOLUTION, just a temporary fix. But I think it is pretty darned good, actually. The only drawback - this will NOT be ideally suited for those who need to put the tower up and down frequently. The mod will STILL WORK, but full implementation involves a special, final "tightening maneuver" that would be impractical for frequent use. (see below - at the end)

The idea is super simple - basically to lengthen the usable thread of the factory hand-wheel bolt - to increase the usable thread count from 6-7 turns per factory to approx 14+ (here). Moreover, a special implementation sequence ascertains those bolts are going nowhere! as far as potential pull out (no early withdrawals).

There are no new parts involved, just some modifications of the existing (two) bolts. If necessary, those hand-wheel bolts can be replaced for some $40 a piece (Screw, Knob F3F-U724D-00-00 $39.27) - so there is an easy way to go back to the original setup. Those are the only parts that get modded - the two bolts.

Here is the long and short - in one picture - factory on the left, modified on the right:


Here is couple more pics, different angles:




Here is the difference (qualitative view) in the reach on the inside
Unmodified (before):


And modified (after):



Here is how the bolts sit inside the tower - approx 3/8-1/2" deeper than the factory (after):




Before:



After the bolt modification, the spring and plastic washer NEED TO BE REMOVED. Also remove /do not reinstall the nylock nut. This is to permit a deeper reach of the bolt - a critical part of this mod/approach.


Here are two short video clips showing the movement range of the modified bolt with and without the spring/washer.

First one is of the bolt (modified) WITH the spring and plastic washer in place:

This does NOT work well - not enough threading depth.

And here is the exact same bolt W/O the spring and washer:

This is good - can be threaded in aprox 14+ turns.


And here is the most important part.

Hand wheel wrapped in a towel and tightened with a wrench - into the base/mount/bracket. However - BEFORE the modified hand-wheel bolt is put in place and tightened, the under-the-hull-cap bolts holding the bracket are loosened up. Those are 3/4 nuts, deep socket, can be reached with and extension bar or by removing the speaker in the coaming above the rear seats.
(don't worry, in most boats those will be a bit loose already... so just do not re-tighten UNTIL after tightening the hand wheel bolts)

Those bolts (under the hull cap) are tightened AFTER the hand wheel bolts are in place - this puts sideway pressure on the bolts making it essentially impossible for them to pull out!

And there you have it. Let me know what you think.


EDIT: I finished after dark so no more pics. I also do not want to post pics of the whole job for other reasons.

EDIT 2 (for clarification):

Within the existing mechanism, increasing the length of thread engagement seems to be the key to safety.

One can do this easily by (adopting @McMark's new bolts idea or) grinding/filing the factory bolt plastic stem (as in above) AND removing the spring/washer/nut from the factory bolt to enable it to thread in deeper.One can get almost an inch of engagement with the modified factory bolt. That would pretty much guarantee some much greater level of safety without any additional mods.

The only inconvenience really is longer time for deployment (14+ turns vs 6-7) and the inconvenience of not having the spring to bounce it and the possibility of loosing the bolt (which would not be secured with the nut - internal, inside the leg).

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[Bruce]

Have you considered using blue thread locker? It should prevent the bolts loosening while allowing them to be removed with hand tools.