2016 240 Ballast Setup Question: Valves?

[Mainah]

I wholeheartedly agree with your ideas about using simple intakes and simple switches! Definitely way to go, many newer wake boats seem to gravitate back to those simplistic solutions too (over silly split screens), for good reasons.

About vents - IDK. I ended up not installing any, and neither does the factory system I think, but I left myself open to it. So far I have not seen the need - there is always enough commotion on my boat when we get "ready" so keeping an eye on the bags does not seem to add any significant inconvenience. Timers help, too, but I would not want to rely on those completely. With the vents mounted I would still probably be watching (and getting pissed the bags not filling right! LOL). Vents require valves, and valves go bad all the time. (so far - I don't have any valves - my only valves are the pump impellers).
I'm not sure exactly how much extra ballast I can squeeze in due to not having vents (and being able to pressurize and straighten the bags to fill the spaces) - but I think it is substantial.

I have also learned that vents are actually very tricky to do right. Most vented systems I have seen have had some quirks that would drive me crazy.

The sound of the pumps sucking air/vacuum (when the bags get empty) is very distinct so no worries there, and these pumps are loud.

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What I am trying to figure out is what happens if I fill the bags with no vents and no timers and I am not watching them when they get full. So bags are full and pumps keep running for 5 minutes. Based upon the pump documentation it appears as though they could develop 21.3 psi. 21.3 psi of hydraulic pressure in a high volume pvc bag with hundreds of pounds of water in it sounds bad to me. 21.3 psi flexible vessel pushing against fiberglass also sounds bad to me. Reality may by entirely different from how things sound though.

 

[jcyamaharider]

I wouldn't trust it @Mainah

 

[swatski]

I am trying to figure out is what happens if I fill the bags with no vents and no timers and I am not watching them when they get full. So bags are full and pumps keep running for 5 minutes.

That would be a BIG boo-boo to the boat. Possibly structural damage, broken bulkheads and/or lids/hatches. Not good!

I also do not trust the timers, vent hoses can get kinked up or bags can cave in and block drains, valves can brake - no way I would be pumping blind without keeping an eye on things.

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[buckbuck]

I have the stock set up and I have to reinitiate the timer a couple times to get the bags to fill completely. We tend to be conscience of the bags filling. The 2008 will pop the cup holders out if you overfill.

 

[Mainah]

I like the idea of single hose to bag install. Guess timers of some sort it will have to be. Darn that makes me rethink the control setup again.

 

[haknslash]

Some info on using check valves and loops, especially if wanting to drain and fill completely with a vent https://www.wakemakers.com/resources/check-valves-vs-vented-loops/. Even if you didn't use a vent you would want to still use the relief vent on the bags otherwise you're going to have trapped air in them. I know when I fill my Fly High bag there is always air I will have to vent if I want to use all of the bags capacity. It just seems to me that if you wanted to go through all the trouble of doing an integrated system you might as well go all out and do it with ease of mind using a vent. So long as you run your hoses carefully you shouldn't have any issues with kinks. I dont know what to think about the stock Yamaha system not having a vent. If you go look on wake boats with plug and play ballast options most I've seen usually have a vent or is plumbed into the stock hard tank overflow network. Both the pump version diagrams on wakemakers show the use of a vent either using an Aerator pump or the Johnson pump https://www.wakemakers.com/resources/wakeboard-ballast-system-design/

 

[swatski]

Even if you didn't use a vent you would want to still use the relief vent on the bags otherwise you're going to have trapped air in them.

Not really. With the reversible pumps you can empty the bags until they shrivel down looking like raisins, no air, no water sloshing around - all sucked dry. Just fill and empty. These Johnson pumps also act as valves, and they are tight, so with no vents there is nothing else you need to do.

Those WM schematics look good on paper, in reality rigging even the simplest full built-in ballast (post production) in these Yammies is hard enough. If there is a better system/way to do it - I want it. I think I'm pretty much maxing out ballast space, don't know what else I could fit in.

I've had long and fruitful discussions about this topic with @rocknracing before I started last year. He has had WM design and install his system, money was not an issue, he just wanted it all to work the best it could. Lets just say they will most likely not be doing another Yammie, lol, it was so hard and took them so long they basically ended up capping his cost for labor (as it started looking completely ridiculous). Now, his system's great but even than he has been changing several components to smooth out the operation.

In my case: 4 intakes - 4 pumps - 4 bags, so it does not get much simpler. I have no valves (other than the pumps), no vents, no diverters etc. Does it all work? I can fill all the bags (w/3 built in holding ~2,400lbs) in approx. 6min. Empty - about the same time. I don't know many boats that can do that.

BUT, I still need to rig a bag or two onto rear seats and swim platform etc. So, I'll always need to move some people, run around to check things out etc. And that's okay.

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[bmb5150]

Nice setup that you have. I am now working with WakeMakers to get my set up started. Thanks for all of the great info you have put into this. We can never get too much info.

 

[Mainah]

So after removing my stock shower system (already sold) and doing a few other things to the boat this weekend I am finally ready to tackle this. I just did a reread on the whole thread and @swatski did a great job of documenting everything. I have landed on simple is best am am going with impeller pumps. Already had more inline fuses than I would like and was adding more electrical items so added a negative bus bas a a ATO fuse panel in the helm off of my amp distribution block. Also got my VHF radio installed minus antenna (waiting on the right mount). I plugged up those gaps I noticed in the cabin storage rear bulk heads and boy that starboard compartment is tight even with the batteries removed. One of my lean teenage sons will handle that day when it comes time to pull wire and plumbing for the bags.

I am going to go with 3 simple rocker swtiches, three pumps, 3 intakes, 3 vents, 3 check valves, and 12-2 marine wire to each pump. I am going to use the same some bag @swatski did for the center locker based on his results and photos. I would rather not chew up all of the cabin storage and if I put something where the bags are when they are empty I don't want to have to move it. So I am debating between 42x16x16 400lb bags which won't fill entirely or the 800 lb Sumo bags that won't fill all the way. The trade off being storage and I hate things being piled on top of each other. @swatski what are your thoughts about real life weight of the bags you have? How much do you fill those rear bags? If I were a die hard surfer I know that answer would be simple go with the big bags or buy a surf boat. The case is that we love wake boarding and just want more air but not so much that I injure myself as I am getting older and feeling it. We also want to try surfing a bit too.

Anyone else please feel free to chime in especially those who wakeboard with a 242x and like to get air.

PS after installing ridesteady, upgrading the stereo, removing the shower system, and no onto ballast I really should have bought an 242x. I just did not like the large Bimini at the time but now I really want that too

 

[jcyamaharider]

@Mainah I pretty much did exactly what you are going to do on my last boat. Here is my install thread. https://jetboaters.net/threads/ballast-3-0-another-ballast-upgrade-plan.8164/page-2 I think you will like it. I would just go with the 400 bags, one per side. It will be plenty. Then for a surf wake throw a 750 bag on top of the seat.

 

[swatski]

So after removing my stock shower system (already sold) and doing a few other things to the boat this weekend I am finally ready to tackle this. I just did a reread on the whole thread and @swatski did a great job of documenting everything. I have landed on simple is best am am going with impeller pumps. Already had more inline fuses than I would like and was adding more electrical items so added a negative bus bas a a ATO fuse panel in the helm off of my amp distribution block. Also got my VHF radio installed minus antenna (waiting on the right mount). I plugged up those gaps I noticed in the cabin storage rear bulk heads and boy that starboard compartment is tight even with the batteries removed. One of my lean teenage sons will handle that day when it comes time to pull wire and plumbing for the bags.

I am going to go with 3 simple rocker swtiches, three pumps, 3 intakes, 3 vents, 3 check valves, and 12-2 marine wire to each pump. I am going to use the same some bag @swatski did for the center locker based on his results and photos. I would rather not chew up all of the cabin storage and if I put something where the bags are when they are empty I don't want to have to move it. So I am debating between 42x16x16 400lb bags which won't fill entirely or the 800 lb Sumo bags that won't fill all the way. The trade off being storage and I hate things being piled on top of each other. @swatski what are your thoughts about real life weight of the bags you have? How much do you fill those rear bags? If I were a die hard surfer I know that answer would be simple go with the big bags or buy a surf boat. The case is that we love wake boarding and just want more air but not so much that I injure myself as I am getting older and feeling it. We also want to try surfing a bit too.

Anyone else please feel free to chime in especially those who wakeboard with a 242x and like to get air.

PS after installing ridesteady, upgrading the stereo, removing the shower system, and no onto ballast I really should have bought an 242x. I just did not like the large Bimini at the time but now I really want that too

Center locker bag fills to capacity, strbd - pretty close, port side is more restricted by the batteries. I like larger bags as those adapt better into the space. I still need a aux bag on the swim platform and/or rear port seat for ropeless surf - usually one or two 550s.

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[swatski]

@Mainah just one more thing - very important to either remove/grind or cover all the factory screws that penetrate into those rear compartment spaces. I'm sure you know that but just a reminder for anyone else doing it. There is a number of screws that hold the rub rail, and than some.

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[Mainah]

I plan to try a professional battery powered dremel for that job. If that does not work I have a few other tools and can go the way up to a 7 inch 12 amp angle grinder but hope I don’t have to go that far. Perhaps I could try and convince @swatski or @gmtech16450yz to come visit for a week to help me out and do some of their other mods to my at the same time. Someone please tell me the one thing they can’t refuse.

 

[Mainah]

Started my ballast install this weekend. This is not as easy as it seems. Lots of drilling. Lots of cramming yourself into tight spots. Lots of contorting your hands/arms to reach tough spots while trying not to drop the tool. Lots of scratches on your arms. A bit of asking your kids why the other side of the though hull fitting is moving while you tighten on the other. A bit of wondering what the heck did I get myself into. A bit of I spent way too much on this for it to be this hard. A whole lot of why the the heck did I not just buy an X series. Most importantly make that trip to the pharmacy and liquor store before you start because you will need it.

Oh yeah if done during March madness you will miss some crazy bracket busters.

 

[jcyamaharider]

LOL, Yep been there done that.....that is why I bought an X.

 

[Mainah]

VHF Radio Install

• Mainah
• Mar 10, 2018
• 1

I ended up going with a rather traditional setup much like @swatski. My system is essentially the same. I mounted the pumps in the engine compartment and did my own custom wiring with a new fuse panel
in the helm. I chickened out on my bedliner idea and instead I removed the carpet from the engine walls and replaced with MLV. I filled all of the gaps too. I think this will help big time with noise. One inch plumbing for all of the inlets and 3/4 for the air outlet/overflow with 1 way valves so they suck dry. Through hull inlets/outlets just like @swatski which I think is great placement. Can’t wait to get some board time behind it.

Starboard Ballast Bag

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 1

Battery/Kegerator/Inverter/Ballast Compartment 3

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

800 lb Center Ballast Bag

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 4

Amp Board 2.0 front

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

Starboard Ballast Pump

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018

Port and Center Ballast Pumps

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018

 

[jcyamaharider]

VHF Radio Install

• Mainah
• Mar 10, 2018
• 1

I ended up going with a rather traditional setup much like @swatski. My system is essentially the same. I mounted the pumps in the engine compartment and did my own custom wiring with a new fuse panel
in the helm. I chickened out on my bedliner idea and instead I removed the carpet from the engine walls and replaced with MLV. I filled all of the gaps too. I think this will help big time with noise. One inch plumbing for all of the inlets and 3/4 for the air outlet/overflow with 1 way valves so they suck dry. Through hull inlets/outlets just like @swatski which I think is great placement. Can’t wait to get some board time behind it.

Starboard Ballast Bag

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 1

Battery/Kegerator/Inverter/Ballast Compartment 3

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

800 lb Center Ballast Bag

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 4

Amp Board 2.0 front

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

Starboard Ballast Pump

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018

Port and Center Ballast Pumps

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018

Looks clean!!!! Good job!

 

[Mainah]

Looks clean!!!! Good job!

Oops wrong photo

 

[swatski]

VHF Radio Install

• Mainah
• Mar 10, 2018
• 1

I ended up going with a rather traditional setup much like @swatski. My system is essentially the same. I mounted the pumps in the engine compartment and did my own custom wiring with a new fuse panel
in the helm. I chickened out on my bedliner idea and instead I removed the carpet from the engine walls and replaced with MLV. I filled all of the gaps too. I think this will help big time with noise. One inch plumbing for all of the inlets and 3/4 for the air outlet/overflow with 1 way valves so they suck dry. Through hull inlets/outlets just like @swatski which I think is great placement. Can’t wait to get some board time behind it.

Starboard Ballast Bag

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 1

Battery/Kegerator/Inverter/Ballast Compartment 3

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

800 lb Center Ballast Bag

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 4

Amp Board 2.0 front

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

Starboard Ballast Pump

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018

Port and Center Ballast Pumps

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018

What a fantastic install.

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[swatski]

VHF Radio Install

• Mainah
• Mar 10, 2018
• 1

I ended up going with a rather traditional setup much like @swatski. My system is essentially the same. I mounted the pumps in the engine compartment and did my own custom wiring with a new fuse panel
in the helm. I chickened out on my bedliner idea and instead I removed the carpet from the engine walls and replaced with MLV. I filled all of the gaps too. I think this will help big time with noise. One inch plumbing for all of the inlets and 3/4 for the air outlet/overflow with 1 way valves so they suck dry. Through hull inlets/outlets just like @swatski which I think is great placement. Can’t wait to get some board time behind it.

Starboard Ballast Bag

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 1

Battery/Kegerator/Inverter/Ballast Compartment 3

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

800 lb Center Ballast Bag

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 4

Amp Board 2.0 front

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018
• 2

Starboard Ballast Pump

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018

Port and Center Ballast Pumps

• Mainah
• Apr 1, 2018

Now, I would love to see what you're doing about the swim platform/rear seat ballast?

Knowing how you roll - you must already have a plan!

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