2016 240 Ballast Setup Question: Valves?

[KXCam22]

You cant get accurate fill sensing on a bladder in a constrained compartment without complicated hardware. I use a full signal, and empty signal and a timed bar graph that shows fill level. They always fill at the same rate so the graphs are pretty accurate. But you need a plc or higher end hardware to do it. I researched many other ways. The relay controller or plc can end up saving a bunch of money on other parts if you plan to build something with a few more features. For ex my plc was $80 and two pump timers were $100 each. The 1" hose i used is gates greenstripe heater hose. This was for intake to pump, and underfloor pump to ski locker bag. Very nice. Even the nicest ballast hose is mediocre and does not seal the best. As a suggestion, add some drain/blowout fittings for winterizing. I had to add mine later. Cam

 

[swatski]

The 1" hose i used is gates greenstripe heater hose. This was for intake to pump, and underfloor pump to ski locker bag. Very nice. Even the nicest ballast hose is mediocre and does not seal the best.

Is 1" the inside diameter?
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/GAT6/28444/N0888.oap?ck=Search_N0888_GAT_-1_-1&mn=Gates&mc=GAT&pt=N0888&ppt=C2091

Good news is, it looks like O'Reilly carries it here.
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[swatski]

You cant get accurate fill sensing on a bladder in a constrained compartment without complicated hardware. I use a full signal, and empty signal and a timed bar graph that shows fill level. They always fill at the same rate so the graphs are pretty accurate.

Thank you -- this is really good info.

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[KXCam22]

One other nice thing about the heater hose is that you can undo a hose clamp and slide it off. With ballast hose, once clamped you usually have to cut it off. Cam.

 

[dan144k]

Also when you plan your intake locations, be careful not to be too close to anything. I struggled to screw things together for my intake. Moving over 1" from a wall would ha e made things much easier.

 

[KXCam22]

And dont get sealant on the threads or it takes a couple hours to tighten the througjhul, 1/8 turn at a time. Cam

 

[KXCam22]

The 240 may have more room for the through hull fitting than the 230. Dan144k is right about the clearances. I could barely fit one fitting in my 230, and although the 1" fittings are smaller, it would have been a challenge to do more than 2. In the end, all you are worried about is water flow rate so that you can run all 3 pumps without starving them for water. You can tell when you have calculated right as the fill rate per bag should be the same with one pump or ALL pumps running. I get a 5 minute fill which I think is pretty typical. Some may be a bit faster. Takes me longer than that to get the boards off the rack. Because of where I put my intake I have to idle around while filling. At speed my ballast water intake is out of the water, so I can drain on the way home but can't fill. A minor inconvenience but I still wish I would have gone out straight down.
Wiring:
Wiring the pumps for forward reverse is pretty easy. All you do is swap leads to reverse the rotation. To do this you need 2 30A relays per pump but they need 2 NO (normally open contacts per). I used a schneider W92S11D22D-12 relay off ebay. One relay turns the pump on forward and one turns pump on in reverse. Essentially, each pump has a fill relay and a drain relay. If I recall, you can do it with 3 regular automotive 30A relays but the control is a bit mor complicated as you have to turn on different combinations of 2 relays for fill and drain operations. It takes 3 since they only have 1 NO and 1 NC contacts.


Hope this helps. Cam.

 

[swatski]

The 240 may have more room for the through hull fitting than the 230. Dan144k is right about the clearances. I could barely fit one fitting in my 230, and although the 1" fittings are smaller, it would have been a challenge to do more than 2.

There is way less room in the stern compartment of new 240s due to the keel and all soundproofing redesign, the access is awful, too. That said, if I skip the shutoff valves and connect the mushroom through-hull intakes directly to 1" fill/drain hose I should be able to fit 3-4 intakes there. I will shoot some pics and post.

The schematic is a little scary... I'm starting to lean towards just purchasing their premium wiring harness. Pretty outrageously priced, but if I can get a discount on a timer with it that would offset the cost somewhat. Wish I had your skill and knowledge of those circuits!

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[dan144k]

@swatski
You can purchase prewired switches.
Search 3 position polarity reversing dc motor.

I used one temporarily on my motorized wedge until I got the relays and wired into my remote.

 

[dan144k]

Another one of weird ideas was to install cameras to watch the bags fill and empty.
A 4 camera system with 7" screen is $150

 

[swatski]

@swatski
You can purchase prewired switches.
Search 3 position polarity reversing dc motor.

I used one temporarily on my motorized wedge until I got the relays and wired into my remote.

I could wire the switches, I think, albeit apex of my skills there. But their timer is kind of bundled with the harness, and it costs a lot more if you try to buy it separately, but of course I also don't know what to look for exactly.
Camera system... tempting, but no. Not surprised you would think of it, though, LOL.

Know of any timer that would work without costing $hundreds a piece? I really like how theirs works, unlike the Yamaha OEM system, it can be set to any amount of time by simply turning a screw and then re-set with a switch.

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[dan144k]

@swatski
Actually I do know of a timer, I bought and was gonna use on my system, then decided I did not need the timers.

I will need to lacate and see how many i have left. Guessing 6 to 10

On ebay

 

[swatski]

@swatski
Actually I do know of a timer, I bought and was gonna use on my system, then decided I did not need the timers.

I will need to lacate and see how many i have left. Guessing 6 to 10

On ebay

If it only was easy to program... IDK, like that WM timer, can be set up so easily (with a screwdriver...). I'm also thinking with the power rating at 10 Amp, if that, would need to use relays.

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[KXCam22]

In reality you don't need the timer (if you are talking pump timer). When filling, my vents spill water onto the swim deck so it is easy to see that they are full. With my locker bag vent attached to the cooler drain I can hear overflow water out the side. Draining is a bit different and I often sneak a peak to make sure the bags are fully shriveled up. The pumps are loud so there is little risk of one being left on too long and burning up. I can design the wiring for you. Not hard for me since its what I do. The reversing rocker switch is a great idea if it will handle the 25A load of the pumps. It probably can. I didn't think of those since I have no switches. Any premade wiring harness, I will bet you can build better and cheaper. Dan144k extension cord wire is a good idea. Good wire, easy to get and cheap. You need at least #12 gauge wire to the pump motors, #10 would be better. An electrical supply house can usually sell you 2 or 3 conductor #10 SOW (extension cord) material, or alternatively you can buy premade ones at home depot etc. and use the material. If I am bored tonight I will draw you up a simple schematic. Cam.

 

[swatski]

That is real great advice, you guys are awesome! I talked to the Wakemakers's Joel today, unfortunately they no longer offer free timers with the harness, it was just a pilot they were running. They do still offer jetboaters discount, so that helps a bit.

Didn't get to work on the ballast project today at all. My work is getting between me and my Yammie, don't like it, LOL.
I also have another (top secret, for now, unfortunately) project going. But I really need the ballast done to finish the flap and tabs mods, most of the time I test alone and without ballast that is at least semi-automated I am wasting way too much time just to get going.

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[KXCam22]

I would say the hardest install part is putting in the water intakes, due to the poor access and lack of space. One special tool you will need to find is a hole saw that is just slightly larger that the OD of the ballast pipe you use, since you will be drilling a few holes to reach the ballast bags. The locker bag is a bit more difficult but one you remove the floor hatch it is pretty easy to pipe up. I used the heater hose under the floor. Cam.

 

[KXCam22]

Here is a method of using just a switch

And here is how you can use 3 auto relays with the switch


I am not confident that you could use a rocker switch for that many amps (about 25) and have it live a long happy life without giving you grief later. In my world that would be a non starter. Be interesting the hear others long term experiences. If you use the wakemakers premade switch connector the wiring would be easy. Cam.

PS but note that in this 3 relay example you can actually do it with 2 relay per motor.

 

[dan144k]

@swatski
If you go with switch's, I had trouble figuring out where to put them so I did not use. However looking at the boat now and how we use it. I think I would explore the idea of installing on the left side of steering wheel, on the wall facing the aisle. And would install like a protective stereo cover. This is unused space and the cover would protect the switches from accidentally getting bumped on.

 

[swatski]

I was working on various things today, but did spend some time planning the ballast. Not good.

So, one big stupid revelation is, those rear under seat spaces are MUCH SMALLER in the new 240s... This is because of the soundproofing design features and the new wet storage compartments in the stern - the spaces are very low, narrow (16"x16") and shallow, too. Hitting the back of the rear storage less than 50" recessed in the back... I could barely squeeze a 350 lbs bag there... It's a disaster. I never looked inside and UP and just assumed there was this cavernous space up, deep in the back... I swear my 190 had more room back up there.

Basically, even with batteries re-positioned on the port side, it is going to be a 500 lbs compartment, definitely not a 800 lbs compartment as I had envisioned... What a bummer. I really feel pretty stupid. I'll have to somehow incorporate the wet lockers in the back, which is complicating things. And will definitely need the biggest bag for the swim platform.

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[KXCam22]

Bummer! But even 1 smaller bag is equal to a couple of fat friends. Cam