Impeller Bearings Trashed ...lots of rebuild Pics pg 6

[cwoav8r]

I would think that as you turn the shaft slowly and push.. you should feel the splines "catch" and it should drop in.

What section of the shaft was in the vise? Double check the condition of the splines... it doesn't take much damage at all to keep the shaft from pushing in. If needed you should be able to dress it up with a small file.

Nevermind... you answered that already

 

[Cotay]

Well I'm at the end of my rope and I'm going to just leave it until next weekend when I can take the boat to the dealer. It really does look like I'm hanging at the splines, but shining a very powerful flashlight down there shows no visible damage to the internal splines, so I have no real idea.

The splines on the shaft look perfectly fine, but I am curious about the shaft itself. If you look at the marks on the shaft on the right side, I can feel a noticeable difference in the diameter of the shaft. It isn't much, but to the touch the shaft feels like it has an imperfection in it...is it possible that this raising/indentation is actually what is catching on the metal seal tube?

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Yes that's what it is. I've read some people having to sand down that lip and use grease to get it back in. Can you feel a lip with your fingernail?

 

[Cotay]

Yes that's what it is. I've read some people having to sand down that lip and use grease to get it back in. Can you feel a lip with your fingernail?

Yup, I can feel a lip on the shaft. I'm going to measure the diameter before and after the lip and pick up some emery cloth to sand it down. All else failing I'll pick up a new shaft from SBT. This makes me a bit nervous about taking the port side off too.

Is there anything we are supposed to do to prevent this from happening? I don't like the idea of trailering the boat back to storage with the steering and throttle cables assemblies just hanging there...any suggestions on how to immobilize them in transit?

 

[cwoav8r]

Yup, I can feel a lip on the shaft. I'm going to measure the diameter before and after the lip and pick up some emery cloth to sand it down. All else failing I'll pick up a new shaft from SBT. This makes me a bit nervous about taking the port side off too.

Is there anything we are supposed to do to prevent this from happening? I don't like the idea of trailering the boat back to storage with the steering and throttle cables assemblies just hanging there...any suggestions on how to immobilize them in transit?

I would not worry about the steering and throttle cables... put the dead engine throttle handle full forward, and the steering full to starboard, and both cables should be fully retracted. That should minimize any movement...

 

[Big Shasta]

Well, FINALLY....You would not believe how much force it took to get that thing out. I first put some ropes around it and then used my wife's pilot as an anchor and tightened up a 5000 lb ratchet strap as hard as I could ...NOTHING. I even used a mallet and wiggled the shaft while it was under tension....nothing....so much tension I didn't like being in that area.

So I had to go to plan B....easy on the power with the pilot while the boat was still hooked to the tundra. I broke a 3/8 braided MFP dock line twice. Once at the impeller and once in the middle. Then I doubled it up around the impeller and gave it one last shot. I was easy on the power just bouncing it against the stretch of the rope...I was breaking traction of the FWD pilot in the grass. So I did what any red-blooded American in the Florida panhandle (southern Alabama really) would do...back up to slack the line and gave it some beans! Still nothing..., just spinning. So I backed up enough to slack the line to the ground and gave it SOME BEANS...WHAM. It popped out and even though I had an old comforter over the entire line, it hit the back of the pilot...(just a scratch on the back gate handle but the wife was outside and came to see what the noise was...BUSTED) It's out. So weird. The shaft splines were lubed and there was no visible reason it would be stuck in there. There was some rubbing on the shaft likely from the misalignment when the bearings were gone. Just like the impeller hitting the wear ring from the slop of the trashed bearings.

So I took the impeller off and then took the shaft back to the boat to see how hard it was going to be going back in....NO PROBLEM.....slipped in and out like butter....Weird. I know it wasn't the impellers fault, it wasn't touching anything since the wear ring was already off.

I plan on pressing new bearings and seals in there tomorrow and hopefully getting ready to reassemble.

A little reminder of the rope I sucked up a couple years ago. but otherwise looks normal.

Port impeller PN NON HO reference

 

[bucks448]

@Big Shasta , um yea...that sounds like it took a lot more goosing than what I had to do, I basically just put tension on the line and applied pressure. Either way, glad for you it's out, and just like you, I could see no evidence of why or how it could be stuck like that.

 

[Cotay]

@Big Shasta, congratulations! I'm glad to hear it worked out for you...and that it went back in easily! I hope I can get mine reinstalled next weekend...

 

[Cotay]

I would not worry about the steering and throttle cables... put the dead engine throttle handle full forward, and the steering full to starboard, and both cables should be fully retracted. That should minimize any movement...

Thanks for that helpful feedback! Worked like a charm!

 

[Big Shasta]

What's the chances that all that force bent the impeller enough to cause vibration? Should I be worried about it or just put it back on and see how it feels? There is no visible damage from pulling it out. I guess now that I know how easy it is to get them out, (or should be easy to get them out next time) I'm leaning towards a test run to see how it feels before sending them out for a balancing test.

 

[cwoav8r]

I got these from Precision Marine Tools: http://www.precisionmarinetools.com/ They are $85 bucks a piece...a great deal but the spacers needed for the screws don't match my current spacers. This is probably a design change from Yamaha since these are remanufactured with the plastic ring...I just need to find the right spacers. I'll let you know where I find them...I may just end up having my father enlarge the holes in the housing by 7 thousandths of an inch...it really is a tiny difference.

The housings from Precision are out of stock... two months...

Boats.net has the guides

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-6B5-R1719-00-00.html

Are they really that oversized? Did you try freezing the guides and heating up the housing... oh wait that might not be wise with the plastic liners in... do they come out pretty easy?

 

[cwoav8r]

What's the chances that all that force bent the impeller enough to cause vibration? Should I be worried about it or just put it back on and see how it feels? There is no visible damage from pulling it out. I guess now that I know how easy it is to get them out, (or should be easy to get them out next time) I'm leaning towards a test run to see how it feels before sending them out for a balancing test.

It's possible... but looking at mine, I think you would notice if they were bent. I would be more worried about a bent shaft. Hold the pump housing down on the bench and spin the impeller shaft... if it is bent you should see it. Short of having a dial indicator you could sit a ruler vertically on the bench at the end of the shaft and see any movement up or down.

 

[Big Shasta]

What is everyone using where the aluminum assemblies go together. The service manual calls for Yamaha Gasket Maker...Is there a common permatex substitute? What about marine grade anti seize? Since these are flanged together, I don't think it's really to seal jet pressure from leaking out. It didn't seem like there was anything in there when I disassembled, I just want to prevent them from corroding together in salt water.

 

[Cotay]

The housings from Precision are out of stock... two months...

Boats.net has the guides

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamaha/Y-6B5-R1719-00-00.html

Are they really that oversized? Did you try freezing the guides and heating up the housing... oh wait that might not be wise with the plastic liners in... do they come out pretty easy?

I'm sorry to hear they are out of stock...I spoke with them just last week so I may have received the last pair. They also normally list on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Waverunner-Pump-Housing-Wear/dp/B0084PYEVE/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1408386236&sr=8-9&keywords=precision+marine+tools

It looks like someone on there is selling an SBT version of the PMT housing for $90, but he only has the one. You could still pick that and another one from SBT and still be less than purchasing one stock unit.

I actually ordered the collars and some new pins on Saturday night since I'm planning on filing the old ones down a bit. I want to be able to use stock housings in the future if necessary so I think having the extra set of collars is a good idea. Boats.net confirmed that they are expected to ship on Wednesday this week.

 

[Big Shasta]

What is everyone using where the aluminum assemblies go together. The service manual calls for Yamaha Gasket Maker...Is there a common permatex substitute? What about marine grade anti seize? Since these are flanged together, I don't think it's really to seal jet pressure from leaking out. It didn't seem like there was anything in there when I disassembled, I just want to prevent them from corroding together in salt water.

Maybe I've answered my own question. The Yamaha Gasket maker is Loctite S518. They seem to only refer to that one as the Yamaha labeled one. I found Loctite 518 gasket maker for use with flanged metal assemblies (what we have here) So I'm going with it.

 

[cwoav8r]

What is everyone using where the aluminum assemblies go together. The service manual calls for Yamaha Gasket Maker...Is there a common permatex substitute? What about marine grade anti seize? Since these are flanged together, I don't think it's really to seal jet pressure from leaking out. It didn't seem like there was anything in there when I disassembled, I just want to prevent them from corroding together in salt water.

There was nothing there when I separated the housings on my pump, just the machined surfaces... I was going to put it back together that way. Don't have the service manual unfortunately... where exactly are they calling for it? Both sides of the impeller housing?

 

[Big Shasta]

@cwoav8r I've sorta been swimming in it trying to make sure I have everything for reassembly. Here's the pages from the service manual that apply to this as well as the index showing what the symbols mean. Mine didn't seem to have anything in the flanges either but I'd hate for corrosion to lock them together next time I try and disassemble.

 

[Big Shasta]

Well, another temporary setback. I went to reassemble everything using the arbor press at work and the housing that holds the bearings and seals is just too corroded to confidently seal. I cleaned all the corrision out of the seal end and now the seal aren't very tight, it just drops in. I suppose I could use something to seal it but I'm just not confident. They were REALLY corroded! I was surprised, the entire piece is just about 130 on boats.net so I'm buying 2 for the confidence factor alone.

Looks like my plans for the in-water test this weekend are shot.

Look at the pitting from corrosion. The price for boating in the Gulf of Mexico!

 

[cwoav8r]

The HO duct is twice that price... ugh...

 

[Big Shasta]

Wow, I would have thought they were the same.