MEGA FANGs Cobra AK Power Steering: Doughnuts In Reverse

[swatski]

You dont have ultimates with the crossover bracket like his

I think I do...
He did not have the spray before fangs - so it would not be the Ultimates' bracket, and the Fangs mount the same way in AK and non-AK, I believe, but I could be wrong!
I'll check after work.

EDIT: I see what you mean, it could be the Fangs AND the cross bracket on Ultimates - causing spray.
Come to think of it, I have had the Fangs AND Ulitmates on the 190 with no issues, but this could be different.

--

 

[djetok]

I still need to install mine I will do that in the next couple of days to check mine. I run my ultimates down all the time, I am thinking with the mega fangs to change that.

 

[Crlos16]

Jeff has PM me and suggested couple adjustments, I will try those adjustments before the weekend and see if the spray goes away.

 

[mtnv900]

I installed my mega fangs this weekend and noticed the same spray. Was planning on looking into it more this coming weekend.

 

[Hector]

Also play close attention to the nozzle alignment when you install the second cross member. I didn’t and lost about 3 mph, after researching here I found my issue which I will correct tomorrow.
The port side nozzle after installing the tie rod that comes with the kit is pointing outward, should be a simple fix just by making the second tie rod that came with the kit shorter to get it pointing slightly in like the starboard side is from the factory.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Yes I put that in the emails when I ship you the parts very important to set a 1/8 in tow in between the 2 fins in the front for better tracking at speed.

 

[FloJet]

Yes I put that in the emails when I ship you the parts very important to set a 1/8 in tow in between the 2 fins in the front for better tracking at speed.

So how do you set a 1/8" tow? What do you measure from?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Center the nozzles using the straight edge across the back openings of the nozzles with the reverse buckets up out of the way. With the tie rods connected at the nozzles but disconnected at the rudder you can perform the tie rod settings using the straight edge on the nozzles then add a very slight tow in to the front leading edge of each fin making the total approximately 1/8 inch closer in the front than in the back , since the tie rods are interconnected to both nozzles and the rudder the play is gone and the steering is instant and accurate at all speeds and in turns,. The fins travel through the water straight.
The front of the fins being slightly tapered and no play between the nozzles works like the front end of a car tracking straight and not wandering at speed.

 

[Lion]

Pictures please....

 

[MidnightRider]

Center the nozzles using the straight edge across the back openings of the nozzles with the reverse buckets up out of the way. With the tie rods connected at the nozzles but disconnected at the rudder you can perform the tie rod settings using the straight edge on the nozzles then add a very slight tow in to the front leading edge of each fin making the total approximately 1/8 inch closer in the front than in the back , since the tie rods are interconnected to both nozzles and the rudder the play is gone and the steering is instant and accurate at all speeds and in turns,. The fins travel through the water straight.
The front of the fins being slightly tapered and no play between the nozzles works like the front end of a car tracking straight and not wandering at speed.

This forum uses the toe-in / toe-out terminology different depending on the thread. On another thread toe-in was being used to describe SurfPointe. I call SurfPointe a toe-out configuration, which is sounds like how you would describe it (toe-in being the opposite of SurfPointe - as you describe the "leading edges" being closer).

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC
So you are saying that you suggest a toe-in setup - which is opposite of what SurfPointe does on the 2018 boats. That is interesting to me, do your fins not work with the 2018 SurfPointe boats? What in your mind would be the negative result of having the jets in a SurfPointe type configuration with your fins (what I would call toe-out - like a vehicle).

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Ok toe in and toe out question.
It was explained to me that the term was coined by simply standing and looking at your feet. Simple visualization actually.

If you angle the toes of each foot toward each other, you have tow in and away from each other tow out. As applied to the fin situation , bringing the LEADING edges of the fins toward each other is tow IN, And away is tow OUT.

Now Surf point requires a unique set up.
The two nozzles are set differently from What I consider the correct or standard way to align the jet nozzles, but for a reason, with this setup it is give and take and without the center rudder on the boat or a set of fixed fins to counter the intentional misalignment of the nozzles it would be very difficult if not impossible to accomplish the wake affect and also difficult to operate the boat in normal boating situations.

The surf Point aligns one nozzle with the rudder and the second nozzle is towed out in the front aiming the thrust inward toward the other nozzle water jet stream causing a collision of the two water jet streams Rolling a wake that is surf- able.
So this explains the give.
Now the take is that you are sacrificing some handling and some of the jet propulsion efficiency of your boat to accommodate this variation.

Side note I have a rule to never post B C for the record I am not breaking that rule but I am posting D C so we will see how that goes , what that means?= "BEFORE COFFEE and DRINKING COFFEE! And yes I do occasionally spill coffee in my keyboard !

So the surf point feature is fine if you are actually using it but if not My honest opinion is that I would suggest eliminating it as you are paying for it each time you operate your boat.
You can always readjust the nozzle if you want to go back to it at some future date.
And while I'm at it I honestly believe you can setup ANY keel twin engine boat with this Surf point if you so desire, and if you have a twin engine boat with full time fins on your nozzles I believe it is also possible to accomplish this although more difficult I will explain this later.

So with the surf point on your boat the fixed rudder counters the off center effect of the angled nozzle when it comes to steering the boat any time it is being used surfing or not.
If you add my steering system you need to measure the distance from the rudder to the fin on the straight nozzle so that the front of the fin and the rear of the fin are the same distance aligning these two evenly using the tie rod .

On the angled nozzle you set the fin and adjust the tie rod to maintain that angle. Because the fins are adjustable you can raise the angled fin to have less influence than the opposite straight fin allowing the rudder and fin to override the input caused by the angled fin and rudder. Thus allowing you to continue to use the surf point.
Also the fin on the angled nozzle redirects some water toward the center of the wake and should contribute to the wake.
So adjusting the nozzles for surf point is obviously different than the non surf point setup.

As for the non rudder twin engine boats making a surf point type wake you would need to set your helm dead center, and tie it off to keep it in place while you do the adjustments.
Set one nozzle straight using the steering cable adjuster, then set the second nozzle to the Surf Point angle, both angles can be determined by using a straight edge on the open end of the first nozzle " I use a long level" as a straight edge.
If you have someone hold the straight edge tight against the open end of the nozzle while you hold a small straight edge on to the end of the second nozzle you can use an angle gauge to then set that nozzle to the correct angle again by adjusting the end of the steering cable.
Keep in mind the play in the cables and adjust it out so the cable is holding the nozzles in the proper place when underway.
Now, were the fins come in to play. in order to overcome the incorrect influence of the angled nozzle on the boat during normal operation you will need the centered nozzle fins all the way deployed and the angled nozzle fins deployed less via the built in adjustment settings, the exact amount may require a few different settings to tune it in. And now it's A C and I am off to ship orders.

 

[MidnightRider]

Ok toe in and toe out question.
It was explained to me that the term was coined by simply standing and looking at your feet. Simple visualization actually.

If you angle the toes of each foot toward each other, you have tow in and away from each other tow out. As applied to the fin situation , bringing the LEADING edges of the fins toward each other is tow IN, And away is tow OUT.

Now Surf point requires a unique set up.
The two nozzles are set differently from What I consider the correct or standard way to align the jet nozzles, but for a reason, with this setup it is give and take and without the center rudder on the boat or a set of fixed fins to counter the intentional misalignment of the nozzles it would be very difficult if not impossible to accomplish the wake affect and also difficult to operate the boat in normal boating situations.

The surf Point aligns one nozzle with the rudder and the second nozzle is towed out in the front aiming the thrust inward toward the other nozzle water jet stream causing a collision of the two water jet streams Rolling a wake that is surf- able.
So this explains the give.
Now the take is that you are sacrificing some handling and some of the jet propulsion efficiency of your boat to accommodate this variation.

Side note I have a rule to never post B C for the record I am not breaking that rule but I am posting D C so we will see how that goes , what that means?= "BEFORE COFFEE and DRINKING COFFEE! And yes I do occasionally spill coffee in my keyboard !

So the surf point feature is fine if you are actually using it but if not My honest opinion is that I would suggest eliminating it as you are paying for it each time you operate your boat.
You can always readjust the nozzle if you want to go back to it at some future date.
And while I'm at it I honestly believe you can setup ANY keel twin engine boat with this Surf point if you so desire, and if you have a twin engine boat with full time fins on your nozzles I believe it is also possible to accomplish this although more difficult I will explain this later.

So with the surf point on your boat the fixed rudder counters the off center effect of the angled nozzle when it comes to steering the boat any time it is being used surfing or not.
If you add my steering system you need to measure the distance from the rudder to the fin on the straight nozzle so that the front of the fin and the rear of the fin are the same distance aligning these two evenly using the tie rod .

On the angled nozzle you set the fin and adjust the tie rod to maintain that angle. Because the fins are adjustable you can raise the angled fin to have less influence than the opposite straight fin allowing the rudder and fin to override the input caused by the angled fin and rudder. Thus allowing you to continue to use the surf point.
Also the fin on the angled nozzle redirects some water toward the center of the wake and should contribute to the wake.
So adjusting the nozzles for surf point is obviously different than the non surf point setup.

As for the non rudder twin engine boats making a surf point type wake you would need to set your helm dead center, and tie it off to keep it in place while you do the adjustments.
Set one nozzle straight using the steering cable adjuster, then set the second nozzle to the Surf Point angle, both angles can be determined by using a straight edge on the open end of the first nozzle " I use a long level" as a straight edge.
If you have someone hold the straight edge tight against the open end of the nozzle while you hold a small straight edge on to the end of the second nozzle you can use an angle gauge to then set that nozzle to the correct angle again by adjusting the end of the steering cable.
Keep in mind the play in the cables and adjust it out so the cable is holding the nozzles in the proper place when underway.
Now, were the fins come in to play. in order to overcome the incorrect influence of the angled nozzle on the boat during normal operation you will need the centered nozzle fins all the way deployed and the angled nozzle fins deployed less via the built in adjustment settings, the exact amount may require a few different settings to tune it in. And now it's A C and I am off to ship orders.

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC
Thanks for the detailed explanation of SurfPointe, didn't realize it was more complex then just pointing both the jets at each other. And yes, that's how I first learned toe-in as well. Problem is you have to facing the right direction, for me its always been looking in the forward direction of the vehicle - I think for some on this forum it is derived from looking out the back of the boat so jets thrusting at each other is toe-in. At any rate I got the info I needed. Someone had told me on here at one time that toe-in for jet boats is different than vehicles so glad I confirmed on your take of setting up your fins. Unfortunately I had already setup my fins with what someone had previously told me, so right now my AKs are 1/4-3/16 toe-out (thrust pointed at each other) which I was told was "jet boat" toe-in . Since I'm going out in a couple of days and don't know if I'll have time to revisit them I may just try it out like this and see how they respond. Do you think there will be a big difference with them "toed" the wrong way (I don't have the mega fangs)? I can always readjust for the next outing.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

You may experience some pull to one side or the other with the front towed outward. If you reset them to the correct setting they will definitely track better .

 

[Hector]

Ok toe in and toe out question.
It was explained to me that the term was coined by simply standing and looking at your feet. Simple visualization actually.

If you angle the toes of each foot toward each other, you have tow in and away from each other tow out. As applied to the fin situation , bringing the LEADING edges of the fins toward each other is tow IN, And away is tow OUT.

Now Surf point requires a unique set up.
The two nozzles are set differently from What I consider the correct or standard way to align the jet nozzles, but for a reason, with this setup it is give and take and without the center rudder on the boat or a set of fixed fins to counter the intentional misalignment of the nozzles it would be very difficult if not impossible to accomplish the wake affect and also difficult to operate the boat in normal boating situations.

The surf Point aligns one nozzle with the rudder and the second nozzle is towed out in the front aiming the thrust inward toward the other nozzle water jet stream causing a collision of the two water jet streams Rolling a wake that is surf- able.
So this explains the give.
Now the take is that you are sacrificing some handling and some of the jet propulsion efficiency of your boat to accommodate this variation.

Side note I have a rule to never post B C for the record I am not breaking that rule but I am posting D C so we will see how that goes , what that means?= "BEFORE COFFEE and DRINKING COFFEE! And yes I do occasionally spill coffee in my keyboard !

So the surf point feature is fine if you are actually using it but if not My honest opinion is that I would suggest eliminating it as you are paying for it each time you operate your boat.
You can always readjust the nozzle if you want to go back to it at some future date.
And while I'm at it I honestly believe you can setup ANY keel twin engine boat with this Surf point if you so desire, and if you have a twin engine boat with full time fins on your nozzles I believe it is also possible to accomplish this although more difficult I will explain this later.

So with the surf point on your boat the fixed rudder counters the off center effect of the angled nozzle when it comes to steering the boat any time it is being used surfing or not.
If you add my steering system you need to measure the distance from the rudder to the fin on the straight nozzle so that the front of the fin and the rear of the fin are the same distance aligning these two evenly using the tie rod .

On the angled nozzle you set the fin and adjust the tie rod to maintain that angle. Because the fins are adjustable you can raise the angled fin to have less influence than the opposite straight fin allowing the rudder and fin to override the input caused by the angled fin and rudder. Thus allowing you to continue to use the surf point.
Also the fin on the angled nozzle redirects some water toward the center of the wake and should contribute to the wake.
So adjusting the nozzles for surf point is obviously different than the non surf point setup.

As for the non rudder twin engine boats making a surf point type wake you would need to set your helm dead center, and tie it off to keep it in place while you do the adjustments.
Set one nozzle straight using the steering cable adjuster, then set the second nozzle to the Surf Point angle, both angles can be determined by using a straight edge on the open end of the first nozzle " I use a long level" as a straight edge.
If you have someone hold the straight edge tight against the open end of the nozzle while you hold a small straight edge on to the end of the second nozzle you can use an angle gauge to then set that nozzle to the correct angle again by adjusting the end of the steering cable.
Keep in mind the play in the cables and adjust it out so the cable is holding the nozzles in the proper place when underway.
Now, were the fins come in to play. in order to overcome the incorrect influence of the angled nozzle on the boat during normal operation you will need the centered nozzle fins all the way deployed and the angled nozzle fins deployed less via the built in adjustment settings, the exact amount may require a few different settings to tune it in. And now it's A C and I am off to ship orders.

So to clarify. I have a regular twin engine boat and have the AK w Megas, if I’m looking at my jet nozzles from the rear of the boat, do I adjust the nozzles towards each other 1/8 or away from each other 1/8?

 

[MidnightRider]

So to clarify. I have a regular twin engine boat and have the AK w Megas, if I’m looking at my jet nozzles from the rear of the boat, do I adjust the nozzles towards each other 1/8 or away from each other 1/8?

If you are standing behind your boat looking at the jets, shift your feet so your toes are pointing in at each other - that is toe-in configuration. Your jets should mimic that to be toe-in. So the thrust would point away from each other an 1/8. Opposite of SurfPointe.




This toe-in image above ^^ is how the AKs should be adjusted (albeit slightly).

 

[Hector]

If you are standing behind your boat looking at the jets, shit your feet so your toes are pointing in at each other - that is toe-in configuration. Your jets should mimic that to be toe-in. So the thrust would point away from each other an 1/8. Opposite of SurfPointe.

View attachment 75078


This toe-in image above ^^ is how the AKs should be adjusted (albeit slightly).


View attachment 75079

Picture speaks a thousand words! Thank you, I had it opposite

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Thank you for the picture it is correct leading edges of the fins = tow in.

 

[swatski]

leading edges of the fins = tow in

Leading edges of the fangs have a slight toe-in.
I set my steering nozzles completely strait - I do it by eye from behind the boat - I probably look like a crazy person when doing it, but it works, as strait as it can be. No steering issues with pulling or other issues.

Following @Rod5 advice, I will be experimenting with (toe-out) SurfPoint settings later this summer, he has posted on his testing efforts and a wonderful guide, easy to follow. But that is a different story/purpose altogether.

--

 

[Lion]

Leading edges of the fangs have a slight toe-in.
I set my steering nozzles completely strait - I do it by eye from behind the boat - I probably look like a crazy person when doing it, but it works, as strait as it can be. No steering issues with pulling or other issues.

Following @Rod5 advice, I will be experimenting with (toe-out) SurfPoint settings later this summer, he has posted on his testing efforts and a wonderful guide, easy to follow. But that is a different story/purpose altogether.

--

I too just looked at my Set, and they are straight. Should they be toe-in?
Will they perform better if adjusted Toed in?

 

[Weeb]

It looks like I did mine wrong too. I have the jet stream pointing in an 1/8. It does seem to pull to port a little.