SX 192 Mods

[Midnight2V]

Unless you could rig up a sealed system to the air hole on the aft wall so that it is pulling no air from the engine compartment, a cold air intake is fairly useless for reducing intake temps. If it were a pwc, it might make a difference, but we have a much larger engine bay. Part of the problem is the hot exhaust right below the air hole, the other is you are still at the mercy of ambient air temps. I leave the blower on while I have the engine on and it might possibly help circulate some air into the engine compartment at low engine speeds. I suppose you could extend the flex tubing on the blower over to the air intake, but the blower moves air the opposite direction.

At WOT engine speeds, the engine is moving somewhere just shy of 10,000 liters (9947 liters AT 6.4 PSI @ 7700 RPM) of air per minute. I seriously doubt that intake temp is more than a degree off of ambient at that point. Not a good scenario for a CAI application to provide any benefit. No one I know, or anyone posting on here that I have read, has reported any significant improvement from using one on an otherwise stock sho setup. Maybe it is different for the NA motors.

So no, I don't think a CAI would improve your hole shot on an otherwise stock setup by lowering intake temperature, maybe by reducing inlet restrictions if you aren't seeing max allowed boost, otherwise no benefit at all.

That said, Riva, R&D, Worx, 4-tec/greenhulk all have CAIs for roughly $300, but I question whether they flow any better than a oil/cotton filter in your stock air box that costs $120.

The good news for you Buckeye is you have a 192, meaning there is a much better, likely cheaper, way to improve your boat's performance. Let's start by acknowledging that IC heat soak is the single biggest limitation to your engine.

Before you do a CAI for $300, I would mod the IC. SVHO is $150-300 and a Type 14 mod runs about $300. You could do a pump strainer and dedicated line to the stock IC for half of that. Any one will give huge improvements. A ribbon delete by itself won't be much but it works great in conjunction with the IC mod and is convenient and free to do.

I cannot overstate the impact of the IC mod, it is literally a different boat as far as hole shot, top end, and turning speed. It is also extremely easy to do although it does take some time the first time. Any thing you do is reversible, and you are not taking the engine outside of Yamaha's designed performance window.

As far as performance, for those of us who are using an aftermarket IC with a dedicated cooling line, we are ELECTRONICALLY limited, not POWER limited. Every single one of us is hitting the electronic RPM limit. Until we modify the ECU, modify the jet pump, or prop up, the only things significantly affecting boat performance (top end) are - weight management, altitude, and water conditions...that's really it.

Yes, more power beyond what the IC mod gives could possibly give you better hole shot - if you could avoid pump cavitation or hitting the electronic boost limiter. As far as top end goes, you would have to either tune the ECU, or prop up before you ever need more power. Even then, these boats may be jet pump limited for thrust output. Time and brave souls will have to figure that out.

 

[swatski]

@Midnight2V Excellent, excellent, excellent write up!

As far as performance, for those of us who are using an aftermarket IC with a dedicated cooling line, we are ELECTRONICALLY limited, not POWER limited. Every single one of us is hitting the electronic RPM limit. Until we modify the ECU, modify the jet pump, or prop up, the only things significantly affecting boat performance (top end) are - weight management, altitude, and water conditions...that's really it.
Yes, more power beyond what the IC mod gives could possibly give you better hole shot - if you could avoid pump cavitation or hitting the electronic boost limiter. As far as top end goes, you would have to either tune the ECU, or prop up before you ever need more power. Even then, these boats may be jet pump limited for thrust output. Time and brave souls will have to figure that out.

I would just like to add that for the N/A 1.8l boats which are not hitting the limiter, which is most of them, ribbon delete may be the best option. That, and running without the air filter (to test if the filter is obstructing the air flow). After that, things get pretty complicated and pretty expensive.

Regarding CAI, the newer boats (with "quiet cruise") have much smaller engine bays and lots of padding, with no clearly visible cutouts for fresh air. I'm still not sure if that matters, as you said, but one simple test of whether or not the engine is starving for air at WOT would be to check the fire extinguisher hole for vacuum/air suction.
I keep forgetting to do this.

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[Gonrcng]

I did the CAI at the same time as my IC and Ribbon delete so I can't say I noticed a difference directly related to it. One thing I do see is the intake tube is hotter than balls... I can't imagine it's not heating the cool air I grab before it enters the SC...

 

[Midnight2V]

I am sorry guys, I forgot to post up my pics, here they are.

Here is the Riva Racing High Flow Pump Strainer and cooling line outlet plate.

Here is the stock strainer and here is the riva unit. This unit without the cooling line added 4 MPH all its own.
Here is my 1/2" dedicated cooling line. I removed the wet storage drain and used the existing hole for my thru-hull fitting. Wet storage drain now goes to the bilge.
Unfortunately the line thru hull fitting was nowhere near the same size so an oversize washer on either side was used to provide proper clamping surface along with lots of sealant

For the supercharger air piping, I did things a little different. I used a black 2.5" to 3" 90 degree reducer off of the supercharger with 4" of 3" ID pipe as joiner pipe to a blue 3" x3" 90 degree coupler on the type 14 IC. I have a piece of resilient plastic underneath the intercooler to raise the inlet to the same height as the supercharger outlet and act as a shock absorber. The lighting makes it look crooked, but its actually straight across and slightly offset aft from outlet to inlet.
I had to trim some material off the red 45 degree coupler to line every thing up correctly. A four inch section of joiner pipe is connecting the red 45 and blue 90 degree silicone sections. i used different colors so I could get good contrast where the sections come together, I thought this might help if I had to do any night time emergency repairs.
Looking straight down on the engine this is what you see. I swapped the 5/8" hose on the intercooler outlet to the bilge pump and put the 3/4" bilge line on the water outlet. So for now my stock bilge outlet has become my intercooler pisser. I am planning to install some billet Blowsion pissers over the winter. I am torn between red or silver.

That's it visually, I also did the ribbon delete. Minus cussing, hardware store runs, and beer breaks, I would say the entire job took me about six hours total. I could probably do it again in less than 4 hours.

Performance-wise, I am stuck on the RPM limit just like every one else with these mods, 47-51 MPH depending on sea, weight, altitude. Holeshot, top end and turning are in a completely different category now. Heat soak is non-existent.

 

[haknslash]

Why would the limit RPM on the boats yet I think the PWC's rev much higher? Is it a matter of stress loads on the engine due to extra weight so they limit it to be conservative? If we could squeeze the same RPM's as the PWC SHO and SVHO guys get I'm sure this boat would haul much more. Is the ECU different on the boats vs PWC?

What RPM do the new 195's top out at?

 

[CQQL]

Any one seen this?
http://gonmf.com/index.aspx#bclb

 

[Midnight2V]

I don't know that the SHO PWCs do operate at a different max RPM, but if that is true and I was guessing, I would say it is because of the basic manner in which a person would operate a pwc versus a boat.

A boat operator would be much more inclined to operate at max RPM (typically 50MPH -ish?) for an extended period of time compared to a PWC (which is USCG mandated to a 70 MPH limit from the factory).

Call me timid (I lost my immortality years ago and I am brittle now, with hardware in my neck), but I would NOT be inclined to operate a PWC at 70 MPH for any extended length of time.

I would think a 2200lbs boat with an 8' beam at 50MPH would put considerably more load on the same engine as a 818lbs PWC with a beam of 4'4" at 70 MPH.

 

[Midnight2V]

Cqql, this company is floating junk science. They claim that by changing the charge relationship between two metal parts, they can get rid of friction....total horse$#!+. Companies like this really get on my nerves.

Even if they were selling a bottle of electrons and claiming it gave parts the electrical properties of relative repulsion, it wouldn't matter. Friction is a byproduct of one of the four fundamental forces of the universe, specifically the electromagnetic force. It is caused by the electromagnetic repulsion of those very valence electrons attached to each and every atom in the universe that is not in a plasma matter state. The end result is a simultaneous transfer and conversion of kinetic energy to thermal energy.

Lubricants provide a liquid, sacrificial partner that absorbs the wear associated with friction. Solid to solid contact is minimized or eliminated, and replaced with solid-to-liquid-to-solid contact. The problem is this is hard to do when systems start up and parts are moving without being properly coated or the fluid under enough pressure to generate a fluid wedge between solid parts. That's why a huge majority of wear occurs when a system starts up. Some of the qualities that are important for lubricants to have are high thermal transfer rates, low erosion factors, high flash points, and good shear resistance. Additives to prevent foaming, detergents to remove and suspend solid contaminants are other functions a good lubricant possessas.

If this company's product actually could manipulate friction by changing the charge state of an object to negative, then they would be introducing the material to any chemical reaction/attack with positively charged material. Any alkaline metal (sodium)or alkali earth metal(calcium), or polar solvent like say, water, would do the trick. The results would be bad, very bad.

Take a look at some common items that have a continuous negative electrical charge...a negative battery post for example, or a zinc anode attached to your hull while exposed to seawater. They continuously corrode.

I'm not harping on you Cqql, companies like this are modern snake oil salesmen, nothing more.

 

[CQQL]

No Problem just popped up on my facebook feed. Thought it might be interesting.

 

[swatski]

Why would the limit RPM on the boats yet I think the PWC's rev much higher? Is it a matter of stress loads on the engine due to extra weight so they limit it to be conservative? If we could squeeze the same RPM's as the PWC SHO and SVHO guys get I'm sure this boat would haul much more. Is the ECU different on the boats vs PWC?

What RPM do the new 195's top out at?

RPM limit is NOT different in skis. They all max out at around 7400-7600 stock, N/a, SHO, SVHO. Boat or ski.
You can make them spin consistently at 7700-7800 with some air /IC mods - you are at the rev limiter right past 7800. It is a "soft" limiter, but you will feel it. For example - if you are running under-propped (with an impeller pitched too low on trailing edge).

 

[haknslash]

+1 for the improved RPMs and performance while carving hard after the intercooler upgrade. When I was stock my RPMs would drop if I cranked hard on the boat but now they hold steady allowing for harder carving and fun spins even with a 2016 rudder equipped 192.

 

[martynnz]

Hi all,

Have just taken delivery of an AR192 from Arizona and shipped it down to New Zealand. Had a great time this weekend trying it out on the lake. Did find that it didn't like going for a prolonged time at low speed in a shallow channel between two lakes as it overheated. Once it cooled down we were all go again.
I have got an intercooler from when Riva sold a few off on ebay recently and intend to put it in. Even with our cooler temps than you guys get we have some issues with heat soak.
I am debating whether to do the ribbon delete at the same time as I swap the intercooler (as I will have more room around the engine). There seem to be varying opinions as to whether it provides any benefit at low altitude. We boat at 1100 feet elevation maximum and most will be done at less than a 900. Is the ribbon delete worthwhile?

Cheers and merry xmas

Martyn

 

[Midnight2V]

Martyn, removing the Intake Ribbon will allow your engine to make more boost. And the SVHO Intercooler, being inherently larger and a smaller resistance to air flow will also allow for an increase in boost (less loss to be exact).

Whether intended or not, the ribbon is a restriction which lowers air flow and thusly manifold boost pressure. According to several sources, the removal is worth a full pound of boost.

On the flip side, it doesn't seem that at stock levels the engine needs that pound of boost to get to max RPMs. The fly-by-wire throttle blade will limit the engine to either RPMs (7750) or boost (6.4psi), whichever limit it hits first. Under stock conditions, that will certainly be RPM.

Many have reported that the throttle is only open about 60-65 degrees with the intercooler mod. With a prop up, that would almost certainly change. The trick is to prop up enough to raise speed without your thrust power/RPM curve meeting or exceeding the engine's power/RPM curve. That would actually end up being a slow down, possibly a major one.

That's the inherent problem with a centrifugal setup, you need more RPM to make more BOOST to make more POWER. The fix for that is a more aggressive supercharger impeller to make more power at all RPMs.

Then again, a more aggressive impeller brings it's own baggage in the form of increased wear on both the engine and the supercharger assembly, larger heat loads on the intercooler....and that is assuming you take out the boost limiter of 6.4psi the stock programming maintains.

Hope this helps.

 

[swatski]

Guys - there is crazy good writeup on the 192 mod project by YJB (old forum) member erj1452002 is posting there. AWESOME!!!

The way the WFO is doing his mods, he has surpassed a stock 195 performance already. Amazing.

What is amazing is they machined a lot of the parts to convert a standard 192 Yamaha 155mm pump into a 160mm impeller and wear ring, even managed to leave the "old" stator and transom plate. Must have redrilled the openings for the water channel, and the transom plate is beautifully tapered.
EDIT: never mind, they seemed to have bypassed the channel altogether.


The whole pump "blueprinting" is the work of art!

Also check out the cold air intake! The whole project is just freaking beautiful. Check it out!!!

Check it out:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/wfoperforma ... 1174084484

Too bad I'm not on facebook, I had to hack into wife's account to view your project. It is worth it but I am going to be in so much $hit when she find out.

He also posted some on instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/wfoperformance/

And on the old site:
http://yamahajetboaters.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=456&t=67386&p=556098#p556098

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[yamahasrxman]

Finally found a SVHO intercooler.. it's on its way.. Rather then "y" the two pisser lines I want to run an additional.
My plan is to add a full set of new 45° fittings but with the boat currently in storage I am unable to find out what size I need to order. Does anyone know what size the factory bypass hoses are?

 

[yamahasrxman]

I don't have the Yamaha part number but its easy to identify by the dual outlet ports on top. It is the same across all SVHO engines. To maintain its designed efficiency, its best to add a additional outlet line, instead of a "Y" connection. I ordered a complete same outlet hose, clamp, connectors, and water pilot from the dealer to match the existing outlet line that is already in place. Gonna route it the same, cause there's plenty of room in the zip ties, and the holes are big enuf between compartments. All you would be doing is adding another hole next to the existing two water pilot outlets, and by using the factory parts, its gonna look completely stock. If in a pinch, and if you don't care how it looks, a "Y" or "T" connector may be used, especially if your uneasy bout drilling a small hole to add a additional water outlet. The SVHO skis are equipped with 3 water outlets for maximum cooling... I also plan on installing a factory SVHO oil cooler. Yamaha states its 110% more efficient and its a bolt on part...

Jumping in on this one late but I am curious as to if you found that the SVHO oil Cooler made any difference..

 

[swatski]

Jumping in on this one late but I am curious as to if you found that the SVHO oil Cooler made any difference..

Curious what you will find.
If you live and boat in colder climates, too much oil cooling may not be best. There is a fair amount of discussion of that topic in greenhulk yamaha 4-stroke performance section. Some think that cooling those engines too much can lead to gas in oil.

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[yamahasrxman]

Curious what you will find.
If you live and boat in colder climates, too much oil cooling may not be best. There is a fair amount of discussion of that topic in greenhulk yamaha 4-stroke performance section. Some think that cooling those engines too much can lead to gas in oil.

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Thanks for the info. I will check out that site as well.

 

[haknslash]

It is believed the gas in oil was related to using too much water cooling. It's been a while since I've read those GIO threads on there but I'm fairly certain it was not related to the oil cooler. I could be wrong though but best to research it yourself. I think you would be fine if you wanted to upgrade from SHO oil cooler to the SVHO version.

 

[4wheeldeal]

Wow great read guys took me a bit but I made it.

So all these mods but no mention or test results of a reflashed ecu?