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SX 192 Mods

Tom V

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The jet pump loads harder when turning 1 direction vers the other direction, same reason why backing up in 1 direction, the boat turns sharper then the other, try it out you will see. ( rotation of the impeller ) The pump loads hard in a lft turn, pulling down rpms.
 
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swatski

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It is all about pump loading.

In the words of immortals of Group K:
http://www.groupk.com/yjetboat.htm
"About Pump Loading

All technicians that build high performance PWCs quickly learn a few fundamental rules about PWC pump function. As you engage a jet-pump driven watercraft in to a high-speed (power-on) left hand turn, the engine/pump gets very heavily loaded, and engine rpms are usually “pulled down”. However, making a right hand turn at exactly the same speed results in no rpm loss at all … and often results in an rpm increase, often accompanied by mild cavitation.

The reason for this phenomenon is that the entry angle of water coming in towards the impeller has a big effect on how well the pump get “loaded”. In left hand turns, the water comes toward the prop at an angle that very effectively “loads” the pump with water, and allows for very minimal “cavitation”. A hard right hand turn has exactly the opposite effect because the water is coming in toward the prop in a way that is very “unfriendly” to pump loading. Anyone who has driven a single engine Exciter 135 will experience this phenomenon in a big way. Using aftermarket impellers with a better blade/hub design can greatly reduce the cavitation experienced under all conditions …including in right hand turns. But even the best designed prop cannot eliminate right-turn cavitation altogether.

Twin Engine Pump Loading

The phenomenon described above affects the twin motor jet boats in an entirely different way. The water intake surfaces on the bottom of twin motor hulls are on angled surfaces on each side of the hull. This “angled water entry” gives an effective entry angle that mimics the pump loading of turning the boat. This means that (while driving in a straight line) the drivers side pump (starboard) is receiving water at an angle that mimics a left hand turn (thus loading the engine rpms down). At the same time, the passenger side (port) impeller is receiving water at an angle that mimics a right hand turn (resulting in higher rpms and a closer cavitation threshold). This is why the left (port) motors of most twin-engine Yamaha jet-boats tend to run higher rpms than the right (starboard) engines.

Getting past the whole theoretical aspect, the functional result is what’s important.. Because of the phenomenon described above, the right side pump is generating more actual thrust than the left pump at any given rpm. This causes the steering wheel to constantly be “tugging” toward a left hand turn, and at the same time causes the left side engine to rev higher than the right engine in order to generate the same thrust.

After weeks of testing, we eventually resolved all these problems (on twin motor Yamahas) by fitting better design impellers on the pumps, and applying a noticeably steeper pitch to the left hand side prop. The end result is engines that turn virtually identical rpms all the way through the throttle movement range, and an end to the steering wheel constantly “tugging” to the left. In most cases, the “off-the-shelf” pitch of the props we chose were not right on the money, so we custom pitch each pair that we sell to the specs that worked best during our on-water tests. Installing these “staggered pitch” aftermarket impellers is one of the most effective improvements that you can make to your twin motor Yamaha jet-boat."

--
 

haknslash

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Well there ya have it @Rick Owens . I never even realized it handled or did that until testing it. I prefer to do the 180 spins to the right anyways as it feels more natural to me swinging that way -plus it keeps my beer cooler in check which is priority #1 of course :winkingthumbsup":D
 

Rick Owens

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Ok new question looks like dealer had put to much oil in after they did my oil change. I didn't think to much about it but I took my vampire pump and pumped some out it was over filled by 1/2 quart. So I just checked my filter and their was a blue like oil on the plastic piece where the filter sets(engine oil was of normal color . The filter doesn't look bad but inside the box was pretty saturated any idea what this is? Fogging oil maybe?
 

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Rick Owens

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Any ideas how fogging oil blew back into my filter box on ar192?
 

Rick Owens

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Anyone run without their air filter?
 

Tom V

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Yes I have run my 192 without the filter for the last 2 seasons, I have noticed a difference after I had reinstalled it this past week, The boat spins up the rpms faster with 4 adults in it, without the filter. I plan on building a better air box opposite the blower motor in the back upper corner in the engine bay.
 

Midnight2V

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Well guys, I bought a surge valve and pipe section for attaching it to my setup. I already have the type 14 intercooler, ribbon delete, and Riva hi-flow jet pump strainer.

This surge valve is basically just peace of mind for SC clutch wear since I plan to get the R&D C-3.

Right now i have to find time to set the spring load on the valve and get a manifold vacuum tap point.

Does any one know the maximum vacuum under static conditions at partial throttle? I think the engine is in a boosted condition past about 4700 rpm, but i have no idea at what RPM maximum vacuum would be, nor what that vacuum amount might be.
 

4wheeldeal

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Well guys, I bought a surge valve and pipe section for attaching it to my setup. I already have the type 14 intercooler, ribbon delete, and Riva hi-flow jet pump strainer.

This surge valve is basically just peace of mind for SC clutch wear since I plan to get the R&D C-3.

Right now i have to find time to set the spring load on the valve and get a manifold vacuum tap point.

Does any one know the maximum vacuum under static conditions at partial throttle? I think the engine is in a boosted condition past about 4700 rpm, but i have no idea at what RPM maximum vacuum would be, nor what that vacuum amount might be.
It's linear so wouldn't it be at the peak RPM is peak boost?
 

Midnight2V

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It's linear so wouldn't it be at the peak RPM is peak boost?
It's true that the boost generated by the crank driven centrifugal SC of our boats increases in a "RPM related manner". The more RPM, the more boost is generated.

I think you may be thinking of a waste gate, which is designed to limit the peak boost a forced aspiration engine generates - particularly while at Wide Open Throttle (WOT), potentially limiting boost across a wide RPM range on a compressor that, by design, increases boost with increasing RPM such as a centrifugal SC or a turbo. When the engine reaches a predetermined boost level, the valve opens and excess boost is vented to atmosphere. A waste gate can be governed or piloted by intake pressure or intake manifold pressure.

A surge valve (commonly referred to as a blow-off valve) is not for peak boost control. It is designed to relieve boost pressure in the intake tract when a negative change in throttle position (a closing motion during a gear change or rapidly coming off throttle while in a boosted state) closes the path of air before the compressor can spin down. This particular circumstance is seen on boosted engines while in a state of high rpm and a shut/nearly shut throttle blade. A surge valve is piloted not by boost but by manifold vacuum.

Without this valve in the path, the resulting pressure wave in the intake tract can violently backlash the compressor. This event is compounded based on the manner in which the compressor is coupled to it's prime mover. The worst possible scenario would be a high step up ratio, gear drive cogged supercharger spinning several tens of thousand RPMs. The next worst manner is the one our boats use - a direct link, crank driven centrifugal compressor.

By using a surge valve, the life of the supercharger drive assembly of our boats can be greatly extended - particularly if an increase in boost is planned. The trick is that you don't want the valve to come open under conditions from idle to normal part throttle operation. The user has to set the load on the valve control spring to open when you come off throttle. As long as the setting is higher than any vacuum level you would see in normal throttle conditions, it won't open inadvertently. But if it is set too high, it could fail to open in a condition where it is needed.....

That's the pickle I am facing right now.
 

haknslash

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@Midnight2V which blow-off valve did you get? For the manifold tap a lot of guys just use the area where the zip tie thing is inserted into the end of the manifold.
 

Midnight2V

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It's a universal Greddy type S valve, 1.15"/1.25" inlet/outlet, with a 4mm vacuum connection with about 50" of tubing - it mounts directly onto a 3" pipe with a 1.595" flange. 40 bucks for the valve, 30 for the flanged pipe.

Haknslash, are you're saying that little rubber plug is covering a built in manifold boss I can tap? My original plan was to get an R&D 3 port extender for the bar map sensor ($18), but now I don't know. You think that the manifold tap is the better way to do it?
 

Midnight2V

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Man, seems like a major PITA to take the manifold off again, and I'll need a tap and a fitting as well. On the flip side, cutting that bar map sensor line just seems to easy to screw up and cut it too short one way or the other. Can't really see anything while cutting it as far as I can tell.

Has any one here already done the surge valve mod on their 192?
 

haknslash

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Yes if you go back through this thread you'll see some guys running the aftermarket IC's also run blowoff valves. @JerryG @Gonrcng and others.

SX 192 Mods
 

4wheeldeal

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Ok so the guys with the ar195s are bragging that they are hitting 54-55mph, I hate to be that guy, but it kinda gets to me, I know I saved a ton getting a 16 but 5mph is alot on a boat like this. A 15 year old kid just bought my buddys old xp and it runs 56mph, I will never hear the end of it if he walks me while I'm out with his dad. Anyways, I'm not dropping a load of cash on the boat but I will do select mods. SVHO intercooler will be installed in July, ribbon delete when ever I get around to it but thats I'll I have planned, maybe remove the air filter to try it?

Anyone have an idea of mods and their increases in performance, out of the hole, mid range, and top end? I know greenhulk has it for the skis? Yes increases are very little but still, would be nice to know what will get you what. Like if its 1500$ to get 5mph thats cheap IMO. I wonder what a low boost pulley would do for topend? 11psi at 7400.
 

swatski

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Ok so the guys with the ar195s are bragging that they are hitting 54-55mph
Can we see a video? There is absolutely no way, IMO. 51mph maybe.
 

4wheeldeal

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Can we see a video? There is absolutely no way, IMO. 51mph maybe.
There has been three so far on Facebook saying it, I'll ask for pics forsure but I thought boat test said it will do 52.
 

swatski

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There has been three so far on Facebook saying it, I'll ask for pics forsure but I thought boat test said it will do 52.
And my 2016 AR 240 does 56mph:
upload_2017-6-21_23-26-9.png

No, it doesn't really. Not in a sustained fashion, averaging the speed going in opposite directions.
The pic above IS real, but it was a momentary reading, winter (cold) dry weather, etc, etc.

I would still claim the top speed in my boat as 50-51mph, on a good day.

Boattest has the best equipment and I believe they clocked that 195 boat at 52mph if they say so, albeit they have posted a bunch of baloney, too, on occasion. Probably tested in the middle of winter, too. But 55mph???? There is just no way. (Again, sustained speed, not a blip)

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