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SX 192 Mods

SamCF

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@swatski How many degrees can you bend the stock impeller? I'm trying to keep cost low, so that would be best for me.

Rpms are 8600 on the limiter. It might take 1 or 2 degrees to get it off the limiter, then more to keep them down to 8300. I don't think the stock fuel system is safe to run that wheel over 8400 rpms without staring down the AFR guage.

I will try the stock impeller, but I want to find a 15/21 or 15/22 skat to throw in if the stock won't work. I'm gone for 2 weeks at a time at work so my parts have to be in order when I get home.
 

swatski

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@swatski How many degrees can you bend the stock impeller? I'm trying to keep cost low, so that would be best for me.

Rpms are 8600 on the limiter. It might take 1 or 2 degrees to get it off the limiter, then more to keep them down to 8300. I don't think the stock fuel system is safe to run that wheel over 8400 rpms without staring down the AFR guage.

I will try the stock impeller, but I want to find a 15/21 or 15/22 skat to throw in if the stock won't work. I'm gone for 2 weeks at a time at work so my parts have to be in order when I get home.
I had a gauge but found it to be a PITA to use. Most guys will mark each blade with a sharpie about an inch from the end and measure the distance to the flat base/surface from that point. Then you bend - it will be about 100-200 RPM per 1mm of trailing edge bend - measured at the sharpie mark about 1" from the end of the blade.
I know - this sounds very vague, but it actually works - as long as you bend each blade the same distance - using the sharpie mark.
Most guys I talked to think this is a more precise way that using an actual pitch gauge - I agree. Unless you have the molds etc.
The whole process is totally empirical, no one can tell you exactly what the result will be. Also - no way to compare the pitch of different impeller brands or models - the blades are different length and shape.

I think you will end up doing at least some pitching yourself at some point, most likely, might as well start now. The OEM is a great place to start - bends relatively easy. You may even find the factory pitch to be off between the blades so you can even it out.

--
 

Jetswu87

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Spent 5 days at Lake Gaston last week for a multiple family vacation.

15 sx192
SVHO Intercooler with 2nd pisser line added
50 hours

85 degrees, 86-90 degree water temp-

Boat loaded with 6 adults, medium sized cooler...3/4+ tank of fuel, bimini stowed with everyone in the back and the water was near glass.
7200ish rpm.
43-44mph GPS

=====================
85 degrees, 86-90 degree water temp-

Only went out once with just me(on the way back to the boat ramp), water was choppy with a good sustained wind but I went into a cove where it was knocked down a bit. Just me, <1/2 tank of fuel, bimini stowed

7350-7400 RPM
48.6mph GPS. The boat is so much faster unloaded, it gets to 40mph pretty quickly. I actually got a touch of the limiter when I launched it from a stop.

One thing I did noticed as we did a bunch of cruising was the boat still suffered from heat soak judging by max rpm. If we cruised at 28-30mph (about 6k rpm) for a length of time and I punched it it'd settle around 7100 rpm. Two adults were in the bow for most of the ride. However if we had any idle time in-between it'd cool off pretty quick and go back above 7200+.
 

Irvs

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@SamCF - where did you get your blow off valve? ....could you also post pictures? :)
 

SamCF

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I got a cheap knock off Greddy BOV from frozen boost. It is very poor quality, but seems to be working.

If I had it to do over, I would buy a Fizzle intercooler with BOV. https://www.4-tecperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_82_114&products_id=2628&zenid=658teu0jtnk5mika8d1ppadum0

This is also an option if you are happy with your intercooler. https://www.4-tecperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_82_114&products_id=3598&zenid=658teu0jtnk5mika8d1ppadum0
 

SamCF

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Just ordered the 160mm pump conversion from the Greenhulk store. I went back and forth over what impeller to go with. The 160 is expensive, but I think I can sell my stock pump parts and L13 cone to offset the cost.

I doubt I'll see any speed increase, but the overall driveability of the boat should be excellent.

It's a custom made impeller, so I'm not sure when I will have it.
 
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Midnight2V

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SamCF, do you have the link to the 160mm conversion on the greenhulk store? Is it just the wear ring and the impeller housing?

Also I wonder what would be involved with switching to the OEM AR195 impeller (other than the wear ring and impeller housing) as opposed to a custom impeller? I'm not sure what the pitch is on it, but I imagine its a little more than the stock SHO impeller.
 

SamCF

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It is just the wear ring and impeller.

Wear Ring: https://www.4-tecperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_82_96&products_id=1416

Impeller: https://www.4-tecperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_82_96&products_id=1451

The stock 195's are running 52 mph, so it's not much over the 192's. The big difference is the hook up, acceleration, and lack of cavitation. It will take more than stock boost to turn the 160 set up. The ski guys on Greenhulk say ET Low Boost wheel is the minimum to run the 160mm, most recommend 15psi boost before moving up from the 155mm.
 

SamCF

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I don't think the stock SVHO impeller will work unless you change the driveshaft and maybe some bearings. The impeller in the link is a custom 160mm for this conversion.

I talked to Dean's Team about the conversion and they quoted me around $1300 for a complete SVHO conversion including bearings, seals, driveshaft, etc.
 

Midnight2V

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Yeah, I think my plan going forward is looking like a maptuner X, Riva B2 wheel with blowoff valve or ET low Boost wheel, and either a repitched oem (15/22) or a 160 custom. I'll finish it off with a Lucky 13 out back. I'm looking really hard at a water-cooled supercharger housing further down the road.

I gotta say, what you were able to get with the OEM impeller is rather inspiring. I figure for $230 for the oem impeller, and 75-125 for repitching and truing probably $350 total plus any shipping incurred. I figure a Riva maptune based on Rivas Stage 2 with a 8000-8100 RPM limit will be everything I could want.
 

SamCF

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AFR Gauge is Mandatory for the ET Low Boost Wheel. Everything looks good until it makes more boost than your fuel pressure can keep up with. I had to add a lot of fuel to run over 8400 rpms. If I didn't have the AFR gauge, I would have probably blown my motor on the first trip out.

The Maptuner also requires a fuel pressure regulator or a powershot for that charger wheel. I highly recommend Dean's Team Tune. He has a tune specifically for that charger wheel, and I can say that it is perfect up to 8400 rpms. (Edit: Maptuner does not need a regulator under 8300 rpm.)
 
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Midnight2V

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Well, the B2 is the exact same boost at 7700/11.3 and 8450/14 as the ET Low Boost wheel so I imagine that means it has the same requirements. I would much rather leave the fuel system alone if I can, I wonder If I shouldn't just do a C-3 then 7700/10# 8300/13#.

When you say the maptuner needs a FPR, that's to raise rail pressure to compensate for the new boost level right? I just figured the stock FPR scaled progressively to maintain 39-43 psi differential between fuel rail and the manifold, and a increase in boost of 4/7 psi wouldn't be a big deal....if it doesn't then it definitely will need a new FPR that is capable, unless the injector pulse can widen enough to compensate. I doubt the fuel pump will be out of flow at that point. Any idea what the injector duty cycle is stock at WOT? I would want to keep it to less than 85%.

Does the powershot allow raising the RPM limit? I hadn't seen that feature listed on the R&D website, but if I could raise the RPM limit and maintain at least a 12.0 or better yet 11.8 AFR, I would be completely satisfied with being able to run over 50mph regardless of my weight load. The CJS viper venom I added has pretty dramatically affected my boats attitude, costing me a few mph at full throttle. The boat drives and rides like a dream now, but I'd really like to get the lost mph that back plus a couple more.
 

SamCF

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Well, the B2 is the exact same boost at 7700/11.3 and 8450/14 as the ET Low Boost wheel so I imagine that means it has the same requirements. I would much rather leave the fuel system alone if I can, I wonder If I shouldn't just do a C-3 then 7700/10# 8300/13#.

When you say the maptuner needs a FPR, that's to raise rail pressure to compensate for the new boost level right? I just figured the stock FPR scaled progressively to maintain 39-43 psi differential between fuel rail and the manifold, and a increase in boost of 4/7 psi wouldn't be a big deal....if it doesn't then it definitely will need a new FPR that is capable, unless the injector pulse can widen enough to compensate. I doubt the fuel pump will be out of flow at that point. Any idea what the injector duty cycle is stock at WOT? I would want to keep it to less than 85%.

Does the powershot allow raising the RPM limit? I hadn't seen that feature listed on the R&D website, but if I could raise the RPM limit and maintain at least a 12.0 or better yet 11.8 AFR, I would be completely satisfied with being able to run over 50mph regardless of my weight load. The CJS viper venom I added has pretty dramatically affected my boats attitude, costing me a few mph at full throttle. The boat drives and rides like a dream now, but I'd really like to get the lost mph that back plus a couple more.
The B2 is the ET Low Boost anodized black. It is the same wheel. I think the C3 is for sure ok, and the B2/ETLB is borderlined with stock fuel. Mine is good to 8300-8400 rpms.

The downside to the C3 is that it is heavier, and they say it's harder on the charger clutch.

The Maptuner X tunes are specifically set up for Riva Kits. You would run the Stage 2 tune. This is a link to what is included in the Stage 2 kit. http://rivaracing.com/i-18127020-fzrstage-2-kit.html I don't see a fuel psi regulator on the list, probably because they list it at 8300 rpms. I know they can modify these tunes for you, as Swatski tried several custom tunes.

Here's a good read on injector duty cycle. The SHO has been around since 2008, so the ski guys have them pretty much figured out. http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=157854 Post #64 answers your question. Basically the injectors are the weak point that sets the 8300 rpm safe fueling ceiling at 93% duty cycle.

The Powershot bumps the stock ecu boost limiter to 10psi, it does not change the rev limit. This was a big deal before the ECU tunes came out. Now with an ECU tune the boost limiter is gone anyway. The benefit now is to add or pull fuel in 3 different tunable zones. It's not a really smooth deal, but you can keep your AFR's right on with different mods, weather, and elevation.

I ran the ET Low Boost wheel with just a Powershot before I got the tune. Had tons of power, and went 50 mph with a pretty good load in the boat. You would probably be very happy with that setup, and could just pitch the impeller up to get off of the rev limiter. Much cheaper and safer route. Could probably get 52-53 mph out of it with the stock rev limit.

The problem is the Powershot cost almost as much as Dean's Tune. I found mine used pretty cheap, but I don't see a lot of them for sale. Might as well get the tune, but then you have to spend even more money getting the impeller right.

This kind of snowballed on me. At first I just wanted to run the wheel and pitch up the stock impeller. After running it, it seemed like it needed a lot more pitch, so I started looking at aftermarket impellers. Then I thought that I could get a tune for just a little more $$ than the impeller, and that would get me 54 mph at 8300 rpm with the stock impeller. Then the tune blows my expectations away, and I'm back looking at impellers, but now with way more power than I was expecting. Now the 160mm impeller will probably be a little too much for the ETLB wheel, and I'll be looking for more power to get the rpms back up. The next step will be a 16 psi wheel and fuel psi regulator. Then cooling mods, cams, retainers and so on...

That is why I say that a wheel and tune that keeps the stock impeller and runs 8300-8400 rpm would be ideal. Greenhulk.com will gladly get you caught in their $500 a piece go fast parts snowball.
 
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4wheeldeal

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Love the Greenhulk snowball thats so true, and having an older sho engine parts seem to come easy. I'm watching cwhat you and others are doing sitting back deciding what my next move is. With your flash and low boost wheel hi is the g/h doing? Improved?
 

Irvs

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@SamCF - you are correct about the svho (160mm) impeller not fitting the sho (155mm) drive shaft. The attached picture shows my stock impeller on the right (160mm) next to a 155mm impeller. It won't even thread.

Message_1498929035301.jpg
 

SamCF

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@SamCF - you are correct about the svho (160mm) impeller not fitting the sho (155mm) drive shaft. The attached picture shows my stock impeller on the right (160mm) next to a 155mm impeller. It won't even thread.

View attachment 61634
Your 192 has a 160mm from the factory?
 

Irvs

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Yes. The impeller on the left was what I was supposed to replace the stock one with; however, after taking everything apart I noticed it wouldn't thread on the shaft.....called my local shop and even he was dumbfounded bc the "book" had my sx192 as using a 155mm impeller and not a 160mm.

There is a sticker on the engine compartment that says my boat is a RM1800 dp. I'm not sure if that matters.

RM1800 dp and RM1800 cp use the same impeller according to: http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/540dcc48f8700217e452cd22/jet-unit-1

Standby.... I was going to wait for the supercharger clutch to get here before I replace the impeller but will replace it today with the replacement I got for the replacement impeller on the left of the picture.
 
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SamCF

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Now I have to check mine. I wonder how many 160's are out there
 

swatski

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How many bolts hold your cone - 3 or 4? 4 is SVHO, right?

--
 

SamCF

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@swatski good thought. Mine is 3 bolts on the pump cone. @Irvs what is yours?
 
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