SX 192 Mods

[SamCF]

So the remapped ECU wouldn't add much on top of that?

I don't think anyone has tried a tune without an upgraded supercharger wheel, so we don't know what it would do. It's worth a try. I'm sure it will run smoother/more responsive and probably get better fuel mileage.

 

[Midnight2V]

+1 on the better fuel mileage with a remapped tune. The stock wheel is the real limiter though. I have no idea what the true boost levels are on it.

Since you have the SVHO Intercooler, I would add a dedicated intercooler cooling line. Lower charge temps means the ECU can run a leaner AFR and with more timing added. That means more power available.

A new tune would also let the ECU run full boost on the stock wheel, as opposed to limited to 6.4# electronically. You might see another pound at most, it could bump up RPM by 200. I could see maybe 7900 max, but not much more. I wonder what that could produce.

SamCF, do you remember what your throttle angle was at on your data logger when you were running a mostly stock setup, or what the boost level was on the stock wheel after you installed the powershot?

 

[SamCF]

+1 on the better fuel mileage with a remapped tune. The stock wheel is the real limiter though. I have no idea what the true boost levels are on it.

Since you have the SVHO Intercooler, I would add a dedicated intercooler cooling line. Lower charge temps means the ECU can run a leaner AFR and with more timing added. That means more power available.

A new tune would also let the ECU run full boost on the stock wheel, as opposed to limited to 6.4# electronically. You might see another pound at most, it could bump up RPM by 200. I could see maybe 7900 max, but not much more. I wonder what that could produce.

SamCF, do you remember what your throttle angle was at on your data logger when you were running a mostly stock setup, or what the boost level was on the stock wheel after you installed the powershot?

Throttle angle was never over 66 degrees with the stock ecu. I didn't see over 6.5 psi either. I haven't plugged the YDS in to see what it is now. I'll plug the YDS in next time I get the boat out. I need to see what the Intake Air Temps are compared to the stock wheel, I think they peaked at 104 before the last upgrades. My winter project will be a larger intercooler or Water/Meth Injection if the temps are going too high.

Boost level is increased with rpm. I think the stock wheel will make around 9 psi at 8400 rpms. You could get the tune and de-pitch the impeller to run 8400 rpms. It would probably pick up 2-3 mph, but it's just a guess.

 

[Midnight2V]

That's about what I was thinking. I figure if these conditions were met: ECU remap giving throttle 82+ degrees and no boost or soft RPM limit, aftermarket intercooler and line, and intake ribbon removed, you could see maybe almost another pound of boost at 7900 RPM. With the stock impeller pitch, minimal load in the boat, cool flat water, cool air - hitting 7900 RPM, and 54 mph on a stock wheel would be realistic.

 

[SamCF]

I saw 52 mph once with stock ecu. Normally it would be 48-49 mph with a light load. This was at 7700 rpm. I would expect 52 mph at best at 7900 in good conditions. I do think 53-54 might be possible with a de-pitched impeller at 8400 rpm.

 

[Eloring]

+1 on the better fuel mileage with a remapped tune. The stock wheel is the real limiter though. I have no idea what the true boost levels are on it.

Since you have the SVHO Intercooler, I would add a dedicated intercooler cooling line. Lower charge temps means the ECU can run a leaner AFR and with more timing added. That means more power available.

A new tune would also let the ECU run full boost on the stock wheel, as opposed to limited to 6.4# electronically. You might see another pound at most, it could bump up RPM by 200. I could see maybe 7900 max, but not much more. I wonder what that could produce.

SamCF, do you remember what your throttle angle was at on your data logger when you were running a mostly stock setup, or what the boost level was on the stock wheel after you installed the powershot?

Ok last question- If I was to add the wheel too, would I have to add other performance parts to prevent damaging the engine?

 

[SamCF]

We have discussed it here, but you would be better off researching this on Greenhulk.com. The SHO skis have been around since 2008, and there are proven setups that you can copy to get the results that you want. My mods in a ski would take it from 68mph stock to around 80mph. It took the 192 boat from 50mph to 59mph, so the upgrades should produce comparable gains on your boat.

I think you need an Air Fuel Ratio Gauge if you add any boost. The stock fuel system should be good up to around 12-13 psi of boost. Pushing the limits on fuel is very dangerous. A tune that runs great all Summer in the heat, can blow your motor in cold weather or with bad gas. If you add air, you have to monitor AFR. Again, read about this on Greenhulk. A lot of guys don't run AFR gauge, but it's rolling the dice on a $5500 motor.

If You need to add fuel, You can use a Powershot, Fuel Pressure Regulator or go to larger injectors. I think I'm going to go to larger injectors and have the tune customized for them.

Wheels:
C3-11. 13 psi @ 8300 rpms. This wheel at 8300 rpms is supposed to be safe with no added fuel.
https://www.4-tecperformance.com/in...ucts_id=1061&zenid=aft5h7a9at058tvn2hqmbrict1

ET Low Boost. 14 psi @ 8450 rpms. This is pushing the limits of the stock injectors even with a Powershot. Unless you add fuel, rpms must be kept under 8300. To me, there is no point in getting this wheel unless you can add fuel and spin it to 8500 rpms.
https://www.4-tecperformance.com/in...ucts_id=5134&zenid=aft5h7a9at058tvn2hqmbrict1

A Blow off valve is also a must have if you add boost. The supercharger clutch will not last long without it.


Some threads on fuel and boost to get you started:

http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=261629&highlight=low+boost+wheel

http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170171

http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=157854

http://www.greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=205050&page=2&highlight=et+low+boost

 

[Midnight2V]

No such thing as a last question, but happy to answer any I can.

As simple as your question is Eloring, unfortunately the answer is anything but.

The easy answer is - it depends on the state of the tune you use and how much power you want to add...which is, of course, no answer at all. The stock ECU puts a software limit on boost and RPM. The ECU is limiting manifold pressure to around 6.5 psi, it uses the throttle blade to control pressure. As far as RPM, I have seen my stock digital tach read 7550, I question the accuracy of that readout as others have said they have seen more. All that said, these engines are well documented in their ability to handle a lot more boost and RPM than they come with. If anyone wants to increase the power and speed of their boat beyond what a SVHO intercooler can do, I think these are the bare essential items you must have.

1. A tune modification of some type. You simply will get nowhere without modifying your tune. Our boats, when equipped with a proper intercooler, are not power limited. Either a re-flashed ECU from a vendor like what SamCF has, or a handheld programmer (Maptuner X) with a selected tune from a library, or a powershot style modifier module. 450 to 1000 dollars.

2. A blow off valve - any level of boost above stock is a sure-fire fast way to either fry your supercharger clutch or damage your supercharger impeller shaft. 40-350 dollars

3. Live AFR monitoring via O2 wideband. I can't overstate this. So many problems start with bad AFR monitoring, and can be caught by the operator before damage occurs with proper AFR monitoring, that it's just too important not to have. 250-500 dollars

4. A dedicated cooling line to the intercooler. The stock cooling line is simply not going to properly cool air charge above stock boost levels. 100 dollars

5. A high flow jet strainer assembly with an inline filter. More power will inevitably require more cooling to the engine and intercooler. A higher flow strainer, while leaving the stock thermostatic controls in place should ensure sufficient temperature control and ensure you do not get any gas-in-oil conditions. The filter is to account for the larger openings in the strainers. The last thing you want to do is clog a cooling channel at high power conditions. 40-100 dollars.

6. An upgraded steering system. Some might disagree with this one, but in a vehicle with basically no brakes, if you want to go faster, you had better be able to change your line faster as well. This could be as simple as a fin set, or you might want to get some form of trimming as well depending on your water conditions. 200-? dollars.

7. A safety plan that you can easily and quickly implement when you decide to go faster than the boat was originally intended. As the operator of the vessel, you hold everyone's safety in your hands, both in your own boat, and those of your fellow boaters in your environment. Make sure you are ready to handle that load. You can't put a price on this.

Figure 1500 dollars minimum just to get ready for higher power levels, not including the intercooler mod you have already done, Eloring. If this sounds too expensive, then I would not bother starting, just be happy with the stock levels that the SVHO can provide. No offense to anyone here. Modding is expensive both in time and money. Proper planned, safe performed modding is even more so...especially when the consequences can include being stranded on the water. I have blown up enough hardware on land using both methods to have a pretty fair idea. Given that these engines are about 11K each, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Only once you have these items would I start looking at raising boost. Things that come into play once you raise boost are Air metering, you need a three bar MAP sensor once you go past 14 PSI. Fuel system is going to either require a new pump or larger injectors or both past about 275 horsepower. Valve train control above 8600 rpm will be a requirement. Retainers at minimum and I would change to a better set of springs.
If you are going past about 10 PSI would get an aftermarket intercooler like a fizzle.

 

[SamCF]

I agree @Midnight2V . Don't buy the Go Fast parts until you get the supporting mods. One thing I'm going to look at over the winter is the pump tunnel reinforcement. The skis need it with the mod level I am currently at. I don't know if the boats need it, but I'm not going to sink mine to find out.

 

[4wheeldeal]

Great info guys I think if I summed it up you just have to go balls deep or not at all.

I'm somewhat curious if I could get into the 54 55 mile an hour range with a stock impeller depitched with the ECU tune turning higher rpm. That does sound promising to me it would allow me to maintain my 87 octane most likely. I think that's more up my alley. It's cooler up my way water temps and Air temps so it should have a bit better results vs being in the south. Something to look into when I'm not sledding.

 

[SamCF]

Great info guys I think if I summed it up you just have to go balls deep or not at all.

I'm somewhat curious if I could get into the 54 55 mile an hour range with a stock impeller depitched with the ECU tune turning higher rpm. That does sound promising to me it would allow me to maintain my 87 octane most likely. I think that's more up my alley. It's cooler up my way water temps and Air temps so it should have a bit better results vs being in the south. Something to look into when I'm not sledding.

If wish someone close to me would try my Dean's ECU on their stock boat. It would at least give us an idea how much pitch would be needed to bring rpms up.

If it takes 3mm de-pitch. You loose 3-4 mph then gain 700 rpm , that should be a gain of 1-2 mph.
If it takes 1 mm de-pitch. You loose 1-1.5 mph then gain 700 rpm, that would be a gain of around 3-4 mph.
53-54 mph would be best case with the stock wheel. It all depends on how much pitch is required to reach 8400-8500 rpms.

 

[4wheeldeal]

If wish someone close to me would try my Dean's ECU on their stock boat. It would at least give us an idea how much pitch would be needed to bring rpms up.

If it takes 3mm de-pitch. You loose 3-4 mph then gain 700 rpm , that should be a gain of 1-2 mph.
If it takes 1 mm de-pitch. You loose 1-1.5 mph then gain 700 rpm, that would be a gain of around 3-4 mph.
53-54 mph would be best case with the stock wheel. It all depends on how much pitch is required to reach 8400-8500 rpms.

That would be interesting, also love to see. I'm a tad far to test it.

 

[haknslash]

@SamCF I wish I were closer as I'd love to try it out. Maybe we can meet halfway at Lake Lanier, GA or something sometime.

 

[SamCF]

I installed the 160mm setup today. I talked to Glen at Skat-Trak and he recommended a Big Hub Long Blade impeller in a 13/18 pitch. He sent a 13/16, and I'm so tired of sending parts back and forth I pitched it myself to around 18.

There must be something wrong, because cavitation is much worse than stock, and there's a vibration from 2000 to 6000 rpms. Hole shot is still much better than stock. Top speed was 59.5mph, on the rev limiter at 8550 rpms. I added all 3 rings to the Lucky 13, and it ran 1mph slower but didn't drop rpms.

Still some fine tuning, but if I can get the rpms down and find the source of cavatation this will be a winner.

 

[swatski]

I installed the 160mm setup today. I talked to Glen at Skat-Trak and he recommended a Big Hub Long Blade impeller in a 13/18 pitch. He sent a 13/16, and I'm so tired of sending parts back and forth I pitched it myself to around 18.

There must be something wrong, because cavitation is much worse than stock, and there's a vibration from 2000 to 6000 rpms. Hole shot is still much better than stock. Top speed was 59.5mph, on the rev limiter at 8550 rpms. I added all 3 rings to the Lucky 13, and it ran 1mph slower but didn't drop rpms.

Still some fine tuning, but if I can get the rpms down and find the source of cavatation this will be a winner.

Holy crap! At this point, if you need serious impeller work (especially w/Skat) I wouldn't hesitate to call the Skat factory and talk to Glen - he is the man. He taught Impros's David dude. He is incredible, albeit they are a bit more expensive.
This is fascinating.
The cavitation issue is puzzling. I have no experience with the 160mm setup, but the Yamaha OEM impellers always seem to cavitate less on hole shot, everything else being equal.

--

 

[SamCF]

I talked to Glen before I left the boat ramp. He said to send him the impeller and he would check it out. It needs a little more pitch, so I'll have him smooth out my rough pitch job and pitch to drop 250 rpms. Should be at 60mph with brutal hole shot when everything is worked out.

I'm putting the 155mm back in tonight so I can use the boat while the 160mm is in the mail. I might be taking 2 weeks off work, so there's a chance I will get the repaired impeller back and tested soon.

 

[4wheeldeal]

Sounds like a winner setup.. with the vibration and cavitation it does sound like an impeller issue as that is the only thing changed.

Again great work!

 

[Midnight2V]

As much load/force as you are putting on the impeller driveshaft, you might want to inspect the lovejoy coupling just to rule it out as a vibration source... assuming its not too hard to access.

 

[SamCF]

I put the 155mm setup back in today. Before installing, I pitched it down about 1mm. Last time out with this impeller it went 59.17 @ 8350 rpms. I'm hoping for 60+ mph @ 8450 tomorrow.

 

[SamCF]

The 155mm setup ran smooth, but no faster than before. 58.5 mph @ 8250 rpm. It was hot and we had a lot of extra weight in the boat. I ran up the lake while the water was smooth with the wife and kids with me. Ran 57 mph at 8200 rpm for 5 miles with no heat fade. AFR was 11.8. Total weight of people and gear was around 700lbs + full tank of fuel.

I shipped the 160 impeller off to Skat-Trak this morning. Hopefully Glen finds the problem and gets it back to me before I go back to work.