The Vaccine

[Lurch]

This is a fascinating thread regarding boosters. A good read.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1439267006105075715

Andy Slavitt, the political activist?

 

[Enduro900]

I was taken aback by your callous remarks and glossed over the statements about your wife. I'm sorry she is having those issues. Truly. I do now know what being sick on a regular basis is, nor do I ask you to disclose personal information about your wife to me. But I encourage you to seek a qualified physicians who can help her. These are not common issues with the vaccine. Can they be from it? Maybe. Even a tablet of tylenol can have odd effects. But this is rare.

Most of the patients that come to me in clinic with issues smelling/tasting and with recurrent "bronchitis" or other similar cough associated presentations, end up being an ENT issue such as sinusitis. Maybe start with one of these specialists?

It would be much more helpful for you to understand what is going on out there, outside of your walls, that maybe you’d understand where some people are coming from with their apprehension.

Do you think we’ve done nothing about her issues? Just maybe her regular doctor has done NOTHING, so she switched doctors, and has had a scan of her lungs (yes she has developed a “smokers cough” the last couple of months….no she hasn’t ever smoked anything). She went in three days ago, was tested for covid (again) neg. But still cannot get out of bed.

Are you willing to bet your life none of these recent issues have anything to do with the vaccine? Aren’t some of those “crackpots” out there concerned about protein spikes causing all kinds of issues?

This is a fascinating thread regarding boosters. A good read.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1439267006105075715

Tab, this is a serious question: Do you know who Robert W Malone is, and if so, have you read or watched anything about his concerns?




Robert W Malone, MD

@RWMaloneMD
Regarding post-COVID genetic vaccine syndromes. I know they happen, do not know how severe or frequent. I argue for data transparency from @CDCGlobal @CDCgov and #QALY based risk/benefit assessment. Data. Science-based Medicine. Honesty. Transparency. Bioethics. Not conspiracy.

 

[Bizywk]

One can poo-poo his lack of advance degrees, but to his credit he does have a LOT of links in the article to back up his statements.

Interestingly, if one believes the information that Dr. Parks shares, she unequivocally (although maybe not intentionally) makes the case for the wearing of masks in schools.

Jim

You're right Jim- the author does, and I agree with you that the article Bruce cites is certainly worth taking a look. I only compared and contrasted how we treat "Expert" references in this thread.

If the purpose of this non-boating thread was really to share medically related information, then why all the smears? Simple - This thread is an echo chamber for confirmation bias and anecdotal evidence.

 

[tabbibus]

@Lurch yes, the activist. I get it. But the points he are making are good. He even advocates to allow dissenters to be heard. I don't see anything partisan in that particular thread. Do you?

@Enduro900 I don't know where you got that I think you haven't done anything. You asked me to comment on your wife's situation and I did. And I'm empathetic to her struggle. I've personally taken care of people with similar symptoms long before covid came along. Sometimes medicine doesn't have a clear answer, and I truly hope she finds a solution. And I did say in my post that while her symptoms are not common with the mRNA vaccines, I clearly acknowledged that it is possible, did I not?

Now, my patience for smart people being deliberately misleading is non existent. Can we have a conversation about possible side effects, yes. But if you (the royal you) knowingly are calling this "genetic vaccines", "gene therapy", and other variants of this, then we need to reframe the conversation.

In the meantime I will continue to advocate for a vaccine that I have personally seen make a huge impact, and that continues to keep my patients and community safe. All backed by the currently available data.

 

[mwalker4]

Tough. Right now only Pfizer has the boosters recommended for at risk folks. And most places are not mixing vaccines either. When did she get her second dose?

She got her 2nd dose in February. It seems Moderna might be lasting a bit longer because of the higher doses, so hopefully she will be fine until Moderna is approved for booster.

 

[Lurch]

@Lurch yes, the activist. I get it. But the points he are making are good. He even advocates to allow dissenters to be heard. I don't see anything partisan in that particular thread. Do you?

@Enduro900 I don't know where you got that I think you haven't done anything. You asked me to comment on your wife's situation and I did. And I'm empathetic to her struggle. I've personally taken care of people with similar symptoms long before covid came along. Sometimes medicine doesn't have a clear answer, and I truly hope she finds a solution. And I did say in my post that while her symptoms are not common with the mRNA vaccines, I clearly acknowledged that it is possible, did I not?

Now, my patience for smart people being deliberately misleading is non existent. Can we have a conversation about possible side effects, yes. But if you (the royal you) knowingly are calling this "genetic vaccines", "gene therapy", and other variants of this, then we need to reframe the conversation.

In the meantime I will continue to advocate for a vaccine that I have personally seen make a huge impact, and that continues to keep my patients and community safe. All backed by the currently available data.

Partisan, no. But he does make some logical leaps.

 

[tabbibus]

Partisan, no. But he does make some logical leaps.

Yup, I saw that. But overall I do not see a controversial issue in his overall argument. I think it is thought provoking and makes some sense. I think it was a good read. He is not a scientist, nor an expert otherwise. As I said in the original post, I found it fascinating. Things about the Africa situation for example that I had not considered.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I just got notice there were 8 residents in my mom's Independent Living test positive. Thankfully, all vaccinated. They are going for a partial lock down. Mom's on 3 liters of O2 so she really doesn't want it although she's vaccinated. She loves living there, but we might move her to our place for a bit. Question for the gang: she had Moderna does she need and can she get a booster.

If one is immunocompromised and are 18 years of age or older they are eligible for a third Moderna dose right now.

Here is a link to the Moderna press release from 9/1/21 noting their Submission of Initial Data to U.S. FDA for ITS COVID-19 Vaccine Booster.

My guess is that after the FDA reviewers have a chance to digest the data submitted by Moderna they likely will convene another meeting of the advisory committee (VRBPAC) to vote on the use of Moderna boosters.

It took about 4 weeks from the submission of Pfizer's request for booster approval to the VRBPAC vote. My guess is that we will see a similar timeframe for the Moderna booster.

I think it will be a logical assumption that Moderna boosters will also be be approved for groups similar to the Pfizer vaccine, but of course the decision will be guided by the data.

Jim

 

[Enduro900]

@Lurch yes, the activist. I get it. But the points he are making are good. He even advocates to allow dissenters to be heard. I don't see anything partisan in that particular thread. Do you?

@Enduro900 I don't know where you got that I think you haven't done anything. You asked me to comment on your wife's situation and I did. And I'm empathetic to her struggle. I've personally taken care of people with similar symptoms long before covid came along. Sometimes medicine doesn't have a clear answer, and I truly hope she finds a solution. And I did say in my post that while her symptoms are not common with the mRNA vaccines, I clearly acknowledged that it is possible, did I not?

Now, my patience for smart people being deliberately misleading is non existent. Can we have a conversation about possible side effects, yes. But if you (the royal you) knowingly are calling this "genetic vaccines", "gene therapy", and other variants of this, then we need to reframe the conversation.

In the meantime I will continue to advocate for a vaccine that I have personally seen make a huge impact, and that continues to keep my patients and community safe. All backed by the currently available data.

Why will you not answer a question directly? Do you know who Dr. Robert Malone is?

Have you read or watched anything Dr. Robert Malone is stating?

Btw, I am not someone that walks around thinking I am right about anything……If you read my position on the vax, I’ve done a ton of research, weighed my risks, weighed the fact that I could still spread it to others if I get the shot.

And for right now I have made the decision that only if my employer requires me to get it will I do it (they are closely monitoring this Biden directive for employer mandates).

I also stated my decision might change…..and yes I am getting vaccinated if I am faced with being fired…..

And i have said nothing regarding that you are wrong for advocating for vaccination. The tough thing about this thread is the attacks instead of the listening…….

I’m out….I’m going boating today lol…..might be the last nice weekend for a few months

 

[tabbibus]

Why will you not answer a question directly? Do you know who Dr. Robert Malone is?

Have you read or watched anything Dr. Robert Malone is stating?

Btw, I am not someone that walks around thinking I am right about anything……If you read my position on the vax, I’ve done a ton of research, weighed my risks, weighed the fact that I could still spread it to others if I get the shot.

And for right now I have made the decision that only if my employer requires me to get it will I do it (they are closely monitoring this Biden directive for employer mandates).

I also stated my decision might change…..and yes I am getting vaccinated if I am faced with being fired…..

And i have said nothing regarding that you are wrong for advocating for vaccination. The tough thing about this thread is the attacks instead of the listening…….

I’m out….I’m going boating today lol…..might be the last nice weekend for a few months

Dude I'm not attacking you. I'm actually trying to sympathize and hear you out. I do know who he is. And I said I'm all for open conversation about potential unforseen side effects. But I can't go along with being misleading. For example, have you ever seen me call ivermectin a horse dewormer? No. Because I understand it is being called that in order to undermine any potential role. It's a human drug as well and a darn good one at what it does. Same thing. Don't call an mRNA vaccine Gene therapy or a genetic vaccine when you truly know it is not. Again. I don't mean you specifically but the general "you".

Enjoy the boat outing. I'm green with envy. I'm on day 7 of ICU service. Last day today! Ready to take a break from this hell.

 

[Bruce]

@Enduro900, Robert Malone is a doctor who did some mRNA work with frogs in the late eighties more than a decade after the potential of mRNA began being studied.

Katalin Kariko was among the scientists studying mRNA at the time and has continued to do so for nearly fifty years now being instrumental at BioNTech who developed the Pfizer vaccine After About 50 Years, the mRNA Revolution is Here | BioSpace

Some of the other scientists involved are mentioned in this article from Nature The tangled history of mRNA vaccines

Malone himself told the Associated Press “I did not develop mRNA COVID vaccines and I never was involved in developing a human mRNA vaccine,” Video clip of Ohio school board meeting spreads vaccine falsehoods

Unfortunately Dr. Malone has become known for false statements that are harmful to efforts to combat this pandemic.

COVID-19 vaccines are not ‘cytotoxic’

Posts are sharing the false statement that the spike protein in COVID-19 vaccines is cytotoxic, suggesting that it kills or damages cells. There is no evidence to support this.

www.reuters.com

Researcher Distorts Facts on COVID-19 Vaccine Approval, Liability - FactCheck.org

The Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine was fully approved by the Food and Drug Administration, though an emergency use authorization also remains in place. Dr. Robert Malone misleadingly said Americans are being offered the shot only under the latter and that it carried different liability...

www.factcheck.org

 

[Evil Sports]

The tough thing about this thread is the attacks instead of the listening

Hummm.....

 

[Lurch]

Hummm.....

Better, I guess, than account bans for wrongthink…which has also been considered.

 

[Bruce]

@Evil Sports, @Lurch, please reference [HASH=6273]#2A[/HASH].

https://jetboaters.net/threads/our-code-of-conduct.30/

Your antagonistic comments are not positive, constructive or courteous. They do not provide benefit to the discussion or membership.

 

[Acard7]

Man, I don’t know how y’all don’t get tired of bickering at each other lol. I will just post my thoughts and observations based on my experience and my lowly associates degree in applied sciences, lol.

I think a lot of issues we have in society today are how easy we have information at our fingertips, credible or not. We tap into our own experiences and emotions while reading what we find, and boom, it hypnotizes us into a my way or the highway thinking (sometimes). The media is also to blame on keeping the deception wheel spinning.

I will admit I questioned covid initially. I questioned if getting the vaccine was really needed. I believe it’s human nature to always question something. In hindsight, I’m glad I got it, I’ve heard too many people now state that they wish they had gotten it..

Basically what I’m trying to say is, just because someone isn’t seeing it doesn’t mean it’s not a big deal and/or you shouldn’t get vaccinated. Every week now I’m checking on multiple unvaccinated friends with COVID to make sure they are still okay.. That’s how naive I was at first with covid and now it’s going through our community like crazy, only took over a year to finally get here.

I respect everyone’s opinions, whether you want to get vaccinated or not; even agree with people holding off on the vaccine if they have recovered from covid. But please don’t question the effectiveness of the vaccine when medical personnel are now seeing almost all unvaccinated patients, @tabbibus deals with it every single day he works.

 

[tabbibus]

Alright folks, day 7 for me in the books. Short day for me today.

1 more death. Unvaccinated. No new covid admits since yesterday. Here's praying that we see a decrease in ICU admissions. The sad reality is that for now it won't come down. We are the trickle down last line. First ED visits come down, then hospitalizations, then finally ICU. Right now there are many patients in the floor fighting for their lives trying to not end up being our guests, so even if we don't admit 1 more covid patients, the unit will still see a lot more in the next week or two.

Stay safe lads. Go boating.
Be kind.

 

[Bruce]

@tabbibus, not sure why but we actually are seeing a decrease in ED visits in Arkansas. I do not dare to be optimistic but 50% vaccinated + 16% known infected + unknown infections may have reduced symptomatic infection sufficiently to have limited herd effect. We certainly are not taking effective measures to reduce spread. On the flip side we have one of the highest CoVID mortality rates in the country.

In Arkansas infection rates are declining in all age groups over 18. Under 18 infections are 93% higher than the previous peak and 1 in 108 children diagnosed have been hospitalized.

 

[tabbibus]

@tabbibus, not sure why but we actually are seeing a decrease in ED visits in Arkansas. I do not dare to be optimistic but 50% vaccinated + 16% known infected + unknown infections may have reduced symptomatic infection sufficiently to have limited herd effect. We certainly are not taking effective measures to reduce spread. On the flip side we have one of the highest CoVID mortality rates in the country.

View attachment 163737

So y'all thinned the herd? That's one way to do it. Stay safe brother.

 

[Bizywk]

I'm sorry I can't understand how people who use the internet for their information can argue with someone who has real world experience with vaccines or experience dealing with covid patients.

I don't want to assume your meaning. Are you suggesting that no one use the internet to gather information or that no one should ever dare question any other skill set?

Wasn't sharing information the stated purpose of this boating internet thread?

 

[Bruce]

@Bizywk, if you share information that you learn is incorrect why continue to argue such misinformation?

All of our understanding of this virus and pandemic should evolve over time as more is learned. Mine certainly has. It would be unreasonable not to learn.