Thoughts and demo rides of wake / towsports boats: Moomba Max, Axis A22, MB Sports

[haknslash]

Someone had asked me a little while back about running the boat on the hose. Found some unedited short clips of my dealer prep with the engine running on the hose. Just another month or so and will hopefully be on the water!! Can't wait to hear her purrrrr again!

Also found some short clips of the first time seeing her unwrapped and assembled at the dealer. I'll never forget that day with bright blue skies, amazing weather and just how fresh and shiny she was while being prepped. Spring needs to hurry the f*$% up!!!!

 

[d_coyne1984]

I've thought about looping this over and over and using it to sleep too. I have bee thinking about a fresh air exhaust but the thought of silencing that beautiful music kind of breaks my heart. I'm glad I'm not the only one who records this.

 

[DavisAR195]

I just scheduled my pick up date for March 14th and I'm already counting down the days to get my hands on her. I already got a laundry list of mods to get started on once I take delivery.

On another note, I agree with @d_coyne1984 I could fall asleep to that sounds. Regarding the surf pipe, I found it interesting that MasterCraft does not offer surf pipes on any of their boats. After further discussion with the dealer, MasterCraft has such clean emissions and that's why they don't offer it. Also I was have been watching youtube videos by WAKE MANN and found out some surf pipes can impact wakeboarding wakes.

 

[d_coyne1984]

I just scheduled my pick up date for March 14th and I'm already counting down the days to get my hands on her. I already got a laundry list of mods to get started on once I take delivery.

On another note, I agree with @d_coyne1984 I could fall asleep to that sounds. Regarding the surf pipe, I found it interesting that MasterCraft does not offer surf pipes on any of their boats. After further discussion with the dealer, MasterCraft has such clean emissions and that's why they don't offer it. Also I was have been watching youtube videos by WAKE MANN and found out some surf pipes can impact wakeboarding wakes.

Supreme doesn't offer them either. I don't like the idea off the stress a big ol pipe hanging off the back would cause, plus like you said, I have heard there are wake issues as an unintended consequence. The wake plate on the Supremes is so long that you actually drill a hole in it for the pipe to pass through rather than going around it. Supposedly this eliminates the spray problem from the nozzle tip. There are a few people that have made their own version of the Centurion silent stinger so I think I would go that route anyway.

This is a DIY job here. After some forum reading the big key is to just make sure you have enough ventilation so as not to cause exhaust back pressure.


I am probably late to the game on this one, but there is a pretty cool website called Wake Garage for peoples mods of their wake boats (in case you didn't already know). It's mostly people bringing older boats up to date with the more modern systems that come stock on the new boats, but there are some pretty creative and cool ideas there.

 

[jcyamaharider]

Someone brought up MPH. Those are some of the things that I have been looking at also between the boats. Fuel burn while surfing is way lower for some surf boats, naturally, but fuel burn while cruising looks to be way better for the Yamaha boats. Plus more MPH. I guess it is all in what you want to do with the boat. That is my biggest thing, we love to take long cruises and run 35-40 mph for hours sometimes.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Cruising 35-40 mph is not really in the wakeboat quiver, at least not when running a prop that supports pushing 10K lbs through the water. I thought I'd be bummed by that when we made the switch but honestly I don't miss it at all. The sweet spot on our boat, propped how it is currently propped, is about 26-28 mph. 6.2 liter V8 purring through the "Fresh Air Exhaust" and the boat quiet enough that people can have easy conversations while we cross the lake. Ours tops out at right at 40 mph (seemingly regardless of load or elevation) and if I wanted it to, I'm sure it would run all day at 35 mph but that's running pretty close to the top of the rev range, which I don't really like doing. That's just me, though!

 

[d_coyne1984]

I thought I would really miss the top end of my Yamaha, but out of the things I miss, it's the least bothersome to me. I actually really enjoy cruising in my boat. It's so much quieter that my AR192 was. My cruise for peak efficiency is also about 26-28mph with a 14.5x14.25 surf prop. My max is only about 36 with the 5.7 and that prop on. I also have a 1.72/1 gear reduction. I think if I lived someplace with more open water I would consider a second prop with a higher pitch for cruising days. The beautiful thing about that is, I could have them switched in under 15 min. There is definitely a few things I do miss about my Yamaha, ease of ownership being a big #1. I still think the trade off was worth it.

 

[haknslash]

Agree I do not miss the top speed at all and it was also an initial concern of mine. I don’t know if it’s just the rev’s, sound, experience or what but you’ll find yourself being content with the mid to high 20’s speed. It doesn’t sound fast but it doesn’t feel slow on these boats either ....kind of hard to explain. Highest I think I had my Max was 38 mph I think and that was the only time I took her to top speed. Just a different beast and no desire at all when the boat just chugs along purring like a throaty beast at cruise speeds with a nice dry comfortable ride.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Your "clip 1" above totally captures it! Just relaxing! We have the same powertrain and reduction, although I actually am using a 15 X 15.5 pitch prop right now. It's juuuuuust a smidge too much pitch for surfing up at 6,200 feet (Tahoe) but works perfectly down at our 400 foot lake. With that prop, 3,500 rpm = 25ish mph and feels like just loafing along. 4k rpm, where the boat is still quite happy to run constantly, is just about 29 mph. Both make for great cruising speeds with the boat still quiet enough - in terms of engine, wind, and water noise - for comfortable conversation. Man I can't wait for the season to start!

 

[trace]

I am all for surf pipes and here are the reasons why. The raptor motors are not quiet. The surf pipe makes the boat quieter while surfing. I had 2 inboards with no surf pipe before the Supra. Nght and day difference in engine noise while surfing, both inside and outside the boat. Behind the boat with no surf pipe you hear a whole lot of motor and then your sound system has to blast over that noise for you to hear it, which means it's also very loud inside the boat. With the surf pipe the boat is very quiet behind the boat, so the music is more easily heard and clearer at a lower volume. As for emissions, all the inboard manufacturers are California compliant without building a separate version. Whether it's Illmor, Indmar, PCM, or Malibu, they all have CATS, however, it is still exhaust. Boats without surf pipes will show steam from the exhaust dwelling at the back of the boat while running, the surfer will be breathing this. Boats with surf pipes, the exhaust is pumped into the water and typically returns to the surface on top of the wave beyond the lip and surfer.

 

[swatski]

Someone brought up MPH. Those are some of the things that I have been looking at also between the boats. Fuel burn while surfing is way lower for some surf boats, naturally, but fuel burn while cruising looks to be way better for the Yamaha boats. Plus more MPH. I guess it is all in what you want to do with the boat. That is my biggest thing, we love to take long cruises and run 35-40 mph for hours sometimes.

That's the thing. more about covering the distance, when the days are short - say - going up and down Mississippi/Illinois river confluence, or sightseeing in remote places like Lake Powell, or - NYC harbor ( ), lol.

I'm still not over some of the forward drive options... decisions, decisions...lol.

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[swatski]

Yeah....that's pretty steep! A regular ol plain Jane G23 at $170K is still okay, I guess. I mean, for a value priced boat.

What I wonder is, at those crazy a$$ prices, when would they actually start incorporating some of the newer tech like the big gyros (seakeeper and similar, basically the same concept as segway but big/built-in and balancing side to side). Those would need minimal water ballast and just shape the wave with the gyro and fins/tabs?

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[OrangeTJ]

That's the thing. more about covering the distance, when the days are short - say - going up and down Mississippi/Illinois river confluence, or sigh-seeing places like Lake Powell, or - NYC harbor ( ), lol.

I'm still not over some of the forward drive options... decisions, decisions...lol.

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It's awesome to have choices! Some of the forward drive boats look very nice indeed. Trim capability is a major upside to that system as well. The downside, of course, is the same maintenance chores and underwater obstacle risks associated with a regular stern drive. Still, I checked out some Bryant boats with that drive system and was very impressed. The other way to get a higher cruising speed in a traditional v drive boat is just to go bigger in the engine compartment! Boats with the top-of-the line engine packages can pull significantly taller prop pitches and in turn produce higher cruising and WFO speeds. Get into something with a Raptor 575 for instance and top speeds in the 50 mph range are easily obtainable while still having the low speed pull to handle big ballast for surfing or wakeboarding. Of course, that costs $$$!

 

[OrangeTJ]

What I wonder is, at those crazy a$$ prices, when would they actually start incorporating some of the newer tech like the big gyros (seakeeper and similar, basically the same concept as segway but big/built-in and balancing side to side). Those would need minimal water ballast and just shape the wave with the gyro and fins/tabs?

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No idea. It does seem like there could be more technical engineering solutions thrown at the problem at these higher price points. However, I think ballast is likely going to be a major factor for the foreseeable future in any case since water displacement - not just wake shape - seems to be a critical component of the "power" behind a wave. I've ridden some beautiful looking wakes/waves behind boats with limited ballast and the experience is very different compared to when more ballast is in play. The wave just becomes soft, like a big marshmallow. Granted, tech can probably overcome some of this but for now I think there is "no replacement for displacement" overall.

 

[BigAbe75]

As for trim functions, aren’t the surf tabs also functioning as a trim tab at higher speeds? I know they help you get on plane faster, right? Or, is that just a Supra/Moomba feature?

 

[OrangeTJ]

As for trim functions, aren’t the surf tabs also functioning as a trim tab at higher speeds? I know they help you get on plane faster, right? Or, is that just a Supra/Moomba feature?

The outboard surf tabs are not coming in to play as trim tabs at higher speed. They are not designed to serve that function and generally retract above a certain speed (15mph on my boat). On most boats with a tab system - not just Supra/Moomba - the center tab does serve that function and is useful not only for getting on plane when heavily loaded but also for adjusting the fore/aft attitude of the boat underway.

 

[BigAbe75]

The outboard surf tabs are not coming in to play as trim tabs at higher speed. They are not designed to serve that function and generally retract above a certain speed (15mph on my boat). On most boats with a tab system - not just Supra/Moomba - the center tab does serve that function and is useful not only for getting on plane when heavily loaded but also for adjusting the fore/aft attitude of the boat underway.

Tks! I’m learning as much as I can from this thread. Lol!

 

[trace]

The outboard surf tabs are not coming in to play as trim tabs at higher speed. They are not designed to serve that function and generally retract above a certain speed (15mph on my boat). On most boats with a tab system - not just Supra/Moomba - the center tab does serve that function and is useful not only for getting on plane when heavily loaded but also for adjusting the fore/aft attitude of the boat underway.

On 2018 and 2019 Supras the outboard tabs both drop at takeoff along with the center plate for cruising or wakeboarding, which makes a huge difference in getting on plane, then the outboard tabs retract as you continue to accelerate, with the center plate used as a pitch trim. You can use the Autowake system to automatically trim the boat for roll with ballast while cruising.
On 2020 Supras the outboard tabs act as before, but they also can be set to deploy automatically at speed to trim the boat for roll while cruising.

 

[MattFX4]

I am all for surf pipes and here are the reasons why. The raptor motors are not quiet. The surf pipe makes the boat quieter while surfing. I had 2 inboards with no surf pipe before the Supra. Nght and day difference in engine noise while surfing, both inside and outside the boat. Behind the boat with no surf pipe you hear a whole lot of motor and then your sound system has to blast over that noise for you to hear it, which means it's also very loud inside the boat. With the surf pipe the boat is very quiet behind the boat, so the music is more easily heard and clearer at a lower volume. As for emissions, all the inboard manufacturers are California compliant without building a separate version. Whether it's Illmor, Indmar, PCM, or Malibu, they all have CATS, however, it is still exhaust. Boats without surf pipes will show steam from the exhaust dwelling at the back of the boat while running, the surfer will be breathing this. Boats with surf pipes, the exhaust is pumped into the water and typically returns to the surface on top of the wave beyond the lip and surfer.

My new to me Supra has a surf pipe. Interested to try it out and compare to non surf pipe boats I have been on.

 

[OrangeTJ]

I believe you will notice a very significant difference in noise behind the boat. We installed FAE (i.e. surf pipe) on our MB and the difference behind the boat surfing was night and day. Significant reduction in noise inside the boat as well.