Tow Vehicle Dilemma...

[King]

Morning everyone.

Could really use some advise on a choice that we're completely on the fence about when it comes to selecting a new tow vehicle. Our search has narrowed down to a 2016 Toyota Tundra Platinum (9,100 lbs. capacity 13/15 mph) with 85k miles and a 2019 Dodge RAM 1500 Bighorn / Lone Star (8,200 lbs. capacity 15/17 mph) with 45k miles. Both of which are within a few bucks of $38k and are very well equipped. This vehicle will be my everyday driver with the big task will be pulling an AR250 on the weekends and vacations. Most weekends we'll be under 25 miles both ways but, we do have plans for destination vacations annually with our AR250 that would be hundreds of miles out. Perhaps as far as Atlanta to the Florida Keys, west Arkansas, and Ohio.

I only know one Dodge RAM person, and he's happy as can be. When it comes to Toyota; we own a Corolla, and a RAV4, I've had two Tundra company trucks, our neighbor has two Tundras, my parents have been Toyota people for decades. Every Tundra I've come across has been bulletproof! So, my trusted advise base is a bit lop sided and had put me going for the Toyota until I came across this thread, RAM gearing, that was started yesterday, which is, well, RAM centric. Reading the positive things about the 2019 RAM in that post has evened things back out a bit in the decision making process.

Consumer Reports likes the 2016 Tundra over the 2019 RAM. But, the RAM is younger with newer technology, most of which came out that model year and did have some issues, which I believe have been corrected through recalls and service bulletins. To be fair, both vehicles had some recalls, as damn near all vehicles do. They've all been addressed on both vehicles. If I'm understanding things correctly, the RAM still has the remainder of its 5y/60k powertrain warranty left. The Toyota; 3 month / 4k miles. I don't mean this next statement to be a finger in anyone's eye, it's just a accurate assessment of my situation... Where as I know a ton of Toyota people that all love their vehicles, and one RAM guy that does too, I also know of multiple people that have had Dodges and will never have another one but no Toyota owners that a feel that way. Yes, I realize that is a very narrow microcosm view of a much larger reality.

Here's the two vehicles in question... Dodge RAM and Toyota Tundra.

Any advise or suggestions you can offer up would be amazing. We're going to look at the Toyota tonight and will hopefully get it on a 24-hour test drive. We're scheduled to test drive the RAM in the morning.

EDIT: We're coming off of a 2009 Chevy Tahoe LS with a 4.8L V8 for this switch.

 

[steveinmd]

I'm a Chevy guy and hated the silverado. Love my Ram. I knew as soon as i test drove it and it was only to be a data point to solidify the chevy purchase. Ended up not getting the cheby and bought the Ram.

Toyota gas mileage sucks.

 

[King]

I'm a Chevy guy and hated the silverado. Love my Ram. I knew as soon as i test drove it and it was only to be a data point to solidify the chevy purchase. Ended up not getting the cheby and bought the Ram.

Toyota gas mileage sucks.

Yeah, the gas mileage is horrid for sure. That's a huge check mark in the negative column for the Toyota. When I had Tundras for company vehicles it never really hit me that it was that bad due to the fleet fuel card.

 

[RightStuff]

Based on the years and mileage alone I would put the Ram way out front of the Tundra. The tech in the Ram should be better too just being a few years newer.
And finally a total opinion... the Ram looks better.

 

[TimW451]

I think you should drive both as you plan and see which you prefer from driving experience and ergonomics. I don’t think the current gen RAM has any design or systemic issues. Of course a particular truck could. That RAM looks well equipped. I can’t see if it has NAV, mostly matters if you aren’t a smartphone user. Do make sure the tire pressure is correct when you test drive, it looks high, but could be hot tires. I think those the least expensive tires for the truck, so don’t judge too much on them. See if it has a limited slip diff, it doesn’t have the locking diff. While it doesn’t have the brake adjustment for towing, that is not difficult to add if you tow such trailers.

EDIT: Note it won’t have proximity key entry (leaving keys in pocket) eventhough you’d think it would.

 

[adrianp89]

Ram hasn't been part of Dodge for 15 years. Same parent company but different entity. Most of the people that swore off Dodge are people that owned one early 2000's or earlier. Usually those people had transmission issues, which is not even a thought with the 8 speeds they use on almost everything. Toyota has a great reputation for being reliable, which is fair and accurate, but we have been in a golden age for vehicles and pretty much damn near everything is reliable. What you dive down into the awards and ratings, you realize it's all kind of BS.

Putting my bias aside (love my Ram) - I would probably go with the Ram. It is newer and has half the miles. The cab is larger so more room in the backseat. The stereo has Apple CarPlay. The tranmission knobs free up the entire center console, and it is push-to-start. The suspension on the Ram is 100% different and should ride much better than the Toyota... and the Toyota looks super dated IMO.

On the flipside the Toyota has some nice features that I really like - larger gas tank, leather seats, sunroof, running boards, and a bedrug already. All of which except the sunroof can be added to the Ram.

I would go with the Ram, and slowly mod it over time. Upgrade to the bigger tank, get some leather seats, AAMP power running boards, stereo system. Even on the Ram you could upgrade to the 12" factory screen if you wanted to (as well as most other premium factory options, wireless charging for example).

 

[Coult45]

Chevy, Ford, Dodge, and Toyota all make GREAT trucks. There's a reason they each have a huge fan base. If it were me, I would lean heavily toward the newer, lower mileage, better MPG option, but mainly I would see which one I enjoyed driving more as long as they can both do the job.

 

[biffdotorg]

Adrian hit the nail on the head. There is a reason the Dodge name went away. They needed to separate themselves from the bad name it had. Anyone that ever badmouths the trucks, always refer to them as Dodge. You won't hear that with the Ram nameplate hardly ever.

Coult45 is right, nobody is making junk anymore. You can't make a wrong decision. Specs and price alone, the Ram is the better deal in what you are presenting us. I have no real bias for my GMC and the many prior to it, other than the relationship I had with my dealer and General Motors.

Like others, I have friends with Ram's of that vintage and they are nice trucks. I would argue, that the backseat of the Ram crew cabs has got to be one of the nicests. (not a selling point for the owner that primarily drives, but worth noting)

Good luck, you can't choose poorly with your options.

 

[BlkGS]

The tundra have been behind the market since like 2010, lol. The dodge is a FAR nicer truck, and nobody makes junk as the others said.

Personally, I would hold off and roll with the tahoenfor a while. Both trucks are way too much money IMO.

I would also be heavily looking into a ecodoesel ram.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

I am on my second RAM, the first being a 2012, my current RAM a 2020.

For the RAM I like the 5.7 Hemi and the 8-speed tranny combination. I have the 3.92 rear that has a slight effect of mileage, but I still average 14 mpg around town and 18 - 18.5 on the highway (without towing).

I have the exact same interior as the RAM you link, the difference being I have a quad cab instead of the crew cab. Maybe the one you linked doesn't have the trailer brake controller? Anyway, I am very happy with how everything is laid out. I will comment, however, the shifter knob on the dash takes some getting use to. A couple of times I parked the truck, turned it off, but left it in Drive. No big deal, as it will go into park automatically (and maybe set the parking brake?) if the truck is turned off while still in Drive. But it does seem a little bit quirky never having this before.

Condition being the same, I would always take the newer, lower mileage vehicle.

Besides the RAM is much nicer looking. Not that I'm biased but here is my current TV:



Jim

 

[CanTex]

The Ram in the link you posted was very similar to the one my wife had - we were a 2 Ram family for several years. Hands down would purchase the 2019 Ram over 2016 Tundra for all the reasons listed above.

 

[adrianp89]

The tundra have been behind the market since like 2010, lol. The dodge is a FAR nicer truck, and nobody makes junk as the others said.

Personally, I would hold off and roll with the tahoenfor a while. Both trucks are way too much money IMO.

I would also be heavily looking into a ecodoesel ram.

I wouldn't consider an EcoDiesel without significant research. They were blowing up left and right, I am sure they figured out the root cause by now though.... like the timing chain failure on the old 1.8s.

 

[2kwik4u]

Personally, I would hold off and roll with the tahoenfor a while.

This......

@King what do you need that the Tahoe doesn't provide? Do you want the bed? Newer tech? less miles? In general the fullsize SUV's from GM are solid vehicles. I had an '03 Yukon that I loved. it worked quite well and looked decent.

Here it is doing some work with a buddies boat a few decades ago.


I'll never buy a RAM. Don't like the styling, still have a bad taste from previous interactions, and well, just don't like them. Side note: CarlBlackKennesaw's website can fuck right off with all those pop-ups. So, for me, the RAM would be out. No real good data for that other than, I don't like them.

I also won't buy from CarMax. IMO, the vehicles they sell are not worth the premium they charge. Every single CarMax vehicle I've been in hasn't been cleaned up well, and is nothing more than an auction flip vehicle like all the other lots. You pay a premium for "no haggle pricing" and other things, but IMO, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

For $38k in your neck of the woods....I would buy this: CarGurus - 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 SLT Crew Cab 4WD - $36,970 . Similar mileage and equipment to both the Tundra and RAM you have picked out. VERY closely matches the '15 Sierra SLT I had. I put a shade over 100k on that truck with only the A/C needing work. I would've still had it if mice hadn't infiltrated the interior and chewn up the wiring. It rode great, towed great, got decent mileage, and looked good doing it. I'll admit to being GM biased here. I've driven them more than any other brand in my life, and I've had great experiences with them, and I know the systems and how to diagnose problems. So, there is some brand loyalty built there. I personally think they look the best too.

If you're willing to stretch the budget a little, a new Nissan Titan isn't far off on these spec sheets. You can get into a well equipped model for ~$45k, and you'll get some of the new tech like lane departure and adaptive cruise. You'll also get a much better warranty than either of the other two, although I doubt you'll need it. It's not as smooth riding as the RAM, but it'll be as reliable as the Toyota if not better. Gas mileage sucks, which is it's only real achilles heal IMO.....*edit*......Just priced a Titan SV, you're still gonna be in $50k range for that thing. Sorry, my numbers were off...*/edit*

Just my thoughts though. In reality, go drive the ones you like and buy the one that "feels" the best. You'll know once you drive them if it's for you or not.

 

[meaningreen]

My 2 cents, coming from a 14 Tundra I loved it, oil changes and normal maintenance (brakes Tires) was all it needed during the 120K I had it. The Ram will ride better for sure, when prices settle out the Toyota will likely have higher resale. One note is the Platinum for that year was only 1 trim below top of the line, where the Ram is a Big Horn so trims are not similar. Bighorn is SR5 on the Tundra side. Yes the Toyota is way down on Tech compared to the Ram neither have great MPG's neither are Junk but for me hands down I would take the Tundra. Resale and longevity of their trucks and engines (4.6 & 5.7 V8) is what I would stick with. But I'm a Toyota fan and have had several all with over 150K miles, so I might be Jaded. Only reason I sold the Tundra was hot market, got a company truck and wife wanted a three row SUV thus the GX460. Either way truck market is crazy and over priced right now, so it's not ideal to be buying if you don't have to.

 

[King]

This......

@King what do you need that the Tahoe doesn't provide? Do you want the bed? Newer tech? less miles? In general the fullsize SUV's from GM are solid vehicles. I had an '03 Yukon that I loved. it worked quite well and looked decent.

Here it is doing some work with a buddies boat a few decades ago.
View attachment 186644

I'll never buy a RAM. Don't like the styling, still have a bad taste from previous interactions, and well, just don't like them. Side note: CarlBlackKennesaw's website can fuck right off with all those pop-ups. So, for me, the RAM would be out. No real good data for that other than, I don't like them.

I also won't buy from CarMax. IMO, the vehicles they sell are not worth the premium they charge. Every single CarMax vehicle I've been in hasn't been cleaned up well, and is nothing more than an auction flip vehicle like all the other lots. You pay a premium for "no haggle pricing" and other things, but IMO, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

For $38k in your neck of the woods....I would buy this: CarGurus - 2017 GMC Sierra 1500 SLT Crew Cab 4WD - $36,970 . Similar mileage and equipment to both the Tundra and RAM you have picked out. VERY closely matches the '15 Sierra SLT I had. I put a shade over 100k on that truck with only the A/C needing work. I would've still had it if mice hadn't infiltrated the interior and chewn up the wiring. It rode great, towed great, got decent mileage, and looked good doing it. I'll admit to being GM biased here. I've driven them more than any other brand in my life, and I've had great experiences with them, and I know the systems and how to diagnose problems. So, there is some brand loyalty built there. I personally think they look the best too.

If you're willing to stretch the budget a little, a new Nissan Titan isn't far off on these spec sheets. You can get into a well equipped model for ~$45k, and you'll get some of the new tech like lane departure and adaptive cruise. You'll also get a much better warranty than either of the other two, although I doubt you'll need it. It's not as smooth riding as the RAM, but it'll be as reliable as the Toyota if not better. Gas mileage sucks, which is it's only real achilles heal IMO.

Just my thoughts though. In reality, go drive the ones you like and buy the one that "feels" the best. You'll know once you drive them if it's for you or not.

The pop-ups at Carl Black and all of the rest of them have been a huge pain in the ass. There was a Rick Hendrick outlet that had several in addition to the 'chat' window pop-up.

We originally were on tap for a 21" Yamaha which got canceled. We were offered the 250 instead and grabbed it knowing that it might be a bit too much for our Tahoe which has the smallest of the engines that were available that year. After four days of hauling it around to the lake last week, we can tell it's just not up to the task of the extra weight. Even with an extra trans fluid cooler, in less than the 10 mile trip between storage and the ramp we were pegging trans temps at 220/225. We anticipated this with the upgrade to the 250 and took the possibility of having to upgrade the tow vehicle as an acceptable factor in getting off of the Yamaha wait list. Still though, I like my Tahoe.

That Sierra you found looks amazing. That's not far from where my wife works. She may go by on lunch to give it a look.

Haven't even considered the Nissans but will now.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I think it says a lot that the Tundra is 3 years older and basically has double the miles of the dodge but is selling for the same money.

The posted mileage difference between the two vehicles is not that great, if your budget on fuel is that limited … Speaking of which, do both vehicles recommend 87 or 91 octane fuel?

I know the Tundra uses SAE (corrected thanks Jim in Delaware ) certified towing standards, does the dodge? I remember that Toyota was the first to go to SAE towing standards, while the other big three balked at it because it would have lowered their tow ratings. Further, be sure to check the tow ratings very very carefully as all of the big three had some slight of hand when it came to tow ratings.

I see the Toyota has sequential shifting capability …the dodge only has the ability to lock out upper gears.. big win for the Toyota here. The dodge also uses a knob to select gears, yet still has a center console.

Gas tank capacity on the dodge at 26 gallons…the Toyota is 38.

I see the Toyotas engine is a V8 5.7 liter 381 hp @5600 rpm and Torque is 401 lb ft @3600, can’t seem to locate the hp / torque rating for the dodge, only that it is a V6 3.6 liter. There is no replacement for displacement! If this is going to be a tow vehicle it needs to have the power to do that. In comparison the Dodge is going to be anemic while towing, and get the same or worse mpg than the Toyota, my guess is will be worse than the Toyota while towing.

I have three friends who have the Tundras one is a 1794 edition, very nice truck, all three have had an excellent experience with their Tundras, in fact one of them is currently towing home a 1984 Wellcraft Coastal 228 (we estimate the weight of boat and trailer to be 6500-7000#) on a 1400 mile journey from CA and crossed the Sierras yesterday and is happily cruising along. On the trip out to CA he was averaging 75-80 mph and he was getting 19 mpg while riding in comfort. I’ll get mpg numbers from him today and tomorrow for the towing portion.

Just talked to my friend who is headed out of the Reno area this morning in his Tundra Platinum I told him about this thread and he commented how he was using the sequential shifting traversing the Sierras both up and down, he reported that the average fuel mileage he got yesterday in stop and go traffic leaving the Bay Area and crossing over the 8000’ Sierras was 10.2 mpg, while cruising along 395 this morning his instantaneous mileage was 13 mpg at 58 mph. I will get another mpg / average speed update later today when the road opens up.

I told him that I had been reading some vehicle reviews about the Tundra and a complaint was ride quality, he commented that his Tundra rides better than his new F-150 work truck.

Dodge has heated front seats. Toyota has heated AND air conditioned front seats.

Toyota has adjustable headlights from the dash! Never could understand why all trucks don’t have this feature to get your lights down when there is a load in the back.



Payload capacity, check the yellow and white label in the drivers side door well for max payload capacity and gross vehicle weight. This is the real deal and not some convoluted brochure.

To me, the Tundra is the vehicle I’d choose given this choice. I’m basing my opinion on operational capability, crew comfort, tech and the opinions of my friends who have these trucks. The other thing I notice is that someone was pretty liberal with spray protectant on the Dodge while the Toyota is just….clean.

 

[adrianp89]

I think it says a lot that the Tundra is 3 years older and basically has double the miles of the dodge but is selling for the same money.

The posted mileage difference between the two vehicles is not that great, if your budget on fuel is that limited … Speaking of which, do both vehicles recommend 87 or 91 octane fuel?

I know the Tundra uses ASME certified towing standards, does the dodge? I remember that Toyota was the first to go to ASME towing standards, while the other big three balked at it because it would have lowered their tow ratings. Further, be sure to check the tow ratings very very carefully as all of the big three had some slight of hand when it came to tow ratings.

I see the Toyota has sequential shifting capability …the dodge only has the ability to lock out upper gears.. big win for the Toyota here. The dodge also uses a knob to select gears, yet still has a center console.

Gas tank capacity on the dodge at 26 gallons…the Toyota is 38.

I see the Toyotas engine is a V8 5.7 liter 381 hp @5600 rpm and Torque is 401 lb ft @3600, can’t seem to locate the hp / torque rating for the dodge, only that it is a V6 3.6 liter. There is no replacement for displacement! If this is going to be a tow vehicle it needs to have the power to do that. In comparison the Dodge is going to be anemic while towing, and get the same or worse mpg than the Toyota, my guess is will be worse than the Toyota while towing.

I have three friends who have the Tundras one is a 1794 edition, very nice truck, all three have had an excellent experience with their Tundras, in fact one of them is currently towing home a 1984 Wellcraft Coastal 228 (we estimate the weight of boat and trailer to be 6500-7000#) on a 1400 mile journey from CA and crossed the Sierras yesterday and is happily cruising along. On the trip out to CA he was averaging 75-80 mph and he was getting 19 mpg while riding in comfort. I’ll get mpg numbers from him today and tomorrow for the towing portion.

Just talked to my friend who is headed out of the Reno area this morning in his Tundra Platinum I told him about this thread and he commented how he was using the sequential shifting traversing the Sierras both up and down, he reported that the average fuel mileage he got yesterday in stop and go traffic leaving the Bay Area and crossing over the 8000’ Sierras was 10.2 mpg, while cruising along 395 this morning his instantaneous mileage was 13 mpg at 58 mph. I will get another mpg / average speed update later today when the road opens up.

I told him that I had been reading some vehicle reviews about the Tundra and a complaint was ride quality, he commented that his Tundra rides better than his new F-150 work truck.

Dodge has heated front seats. Toyota has heated AND air conditioned front seats.

Toyota has adjustable headlights from the dash! Never could understand why all trucks don’t have this feature to get your lights down when there is a load in the back.

View attachment 186637

Payload capacity, check the yellow and white label in the drivers side door well for max payload capacity and gross vehicle weight. This is the real deal and not some convoluted brochure.

To me, the Tundra is the vehicle I’d choose given this choice. I’m basing my opinion on operational capability, crew comfort, tech and the opinions of my friends who have these trucks. The other thing I notice is that someone was pretty liberal with spray protectant on the Dodge while the Toyota is just….clean.

It's not a Dodge, and it says it has the 5.7L, which is 395hp and 410lbs. I cannot trust anything you say lol.

For reference, I get about 10mpg towing with my RAM in stop and go city traffic with the 252. Creeps up to 11-12 on interstate (I drive like it's not back there). The 8-speed transmission will run circles around the Tundra - there is no arguing that. You might have some more control on the Tundra but is the only perk.

For what it's worth - Ram has won almost every truck award since the redesign in 2019. It lost this year to the Rivian.

 

[Crob83]

I would pick the Ram. 3 years newer, way less miles. Close the same towing capacity and better looking IMO

 

[2kwik4u]

The pop-ups at Carl Black and all of the rest of them have been a huge pain in the ass. There was a Rick Hendrick outlet that had several in addition to the 'chat' window pop-up.

We originally were on tap for a 21" Yamaha which got canceled. We were offered the 250 instead and grabbed it knowing that it might be a bit too much for our Tahoe which has the smallest of the engines that were available that year. After four days of hauling it around to the lake last week, we can tell it's just not up to the task of the extra weight. Even with an extra trans fluid cooler, in less than the 10 mile trip between storage and the ramp we were pegging trans temps at 220/225. We anticipated this with the upgrade to the 250 and took the possibility of having to upgrade the tow vehicle as an acceptable factor in getting off of the Yamaha wait list. Still though, I like my Tahoe.

That Sierra you found looks amazing. That's not far from where my wife works. She may go by on lunch to give it a look.

Haven't even considered the Nissans but will now.

I would have expected that Tahoe (even with the 4.8L) to have done better for you. I see the need for an upgrade.

Also, certainly can't get a Tahoe in that price range currently. The price on them has absolutely skyrocketed.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

It's not a Dodge, and it says it has the 5.7L, which is 395hp and 410lbs. I cannot trust anything you say lol.

For reference, I get about 10mpg towing with my RAM in stop and go city traffic with the 252. Creeps up to 11-12 on interstate (I drive like it's not back there). The 8-speed transmission will run circles around the Tundra - there is no arguing that. You might have some more control on the Tundra but is the only perk.

For what it's worth - Ram has won almost every truck award since the redesign in 2019. It lost this year to the Rivian.

Agree on the 5.7… I was going off of what the spec sheet said…