Towing with Tesla Model X

[BlkGS]

hmmmmm.... Over millions of years maybe it gets "recycled"

Oil Does NOT recycle itself in a useable way though-Once its gone, its gone, as far as human consumption goes. It certainly isn't re-developing itself as quickly as we are using it. The amount of time and material it took to make that fuel-it just isnt possible... and the plants dont recycle it into 02 as quickly either.

here is an interesting but old article about a study on that. I came across this researching whether or not electric cars were better in this regard.

The estimate is We are using this Oil 400 times faster than it took natural processes to create it. Probably much more since this study was done.

Bad Mileage: 98 tons of plants per gallon

A staggering 98 tons of prehistoric, buried plant material – that's 196,000 pounds – is required to produce each gallon of gasoline we burn in our cars, SUVs, trucks and other vehicles, according to a study conducted at the University of Utah.

www.eurekalert.org

I included my two favorite quotes

"98 tons of prehistoric, buried plant material – that's 196,000 pounds – is required to produce each gallon of gasoline we burn in our cars, SUVs, trucks and other vehicles, according to a study conducted at the University of Utah"

the amount of fossil fuel burned in a single year – 1997 was used in the study – totals 97 million billion pounds of carbon, which is equivalent to more than 400 times "all the plant matter that grows in the world in a year,"


Also, i read somewhere, A gallon of gas right now takes 5kw/h just to produce it. That same 5 kw takes me prob. 15 miles. and more often than not, that kw/h is generated by wind.

You have a little windmill on your car to generate that wind power?

I don't disagree, we will eventually run out of oil in the ground. It's a smart idea to remember that, but we also have probably 50 to 100 years of proven reserves assuming current energy need growths. Diversifying our energy portfolio is the right thing to do, especially into nuclear power.

All that said, there's been some real advancements in biofuels that solve the whole, millions of years to make oil stuff. And if we don't get that figured out before we reach the point of no more oil, this whole deck of cards falls on its face anyways, because we use oil for a LOT more than just fuel.

 

[Peelz]

You have a little windmill on your car to generate that wind power?

I don't disagree, we will eventually run out of oil in the ground. It's a smart idea to remember that, but we also have probably 50 to 100 years of proven reserves assuming current energy need growths. Diversifying our energy portfolio is the right thing to do, especially into nuclear power.

All that said, there's been some real advancements in biofuels that solve the whole, millions of years to make oil stuff. And if we don't get that figured out before we reach the point of no more oil, this whole deck of cards falls on its face anyways, because we use oil for a LOT more than just fuel.

LOL yep this is how we generate power.

For real though, My little midwest town has a 1500kw turbine with a backup legacy power station. Deep into summer and to lesser extent winter, they're both running.

I agree with diversifying, but the MAIN fuel for transport has to be moved away from petrol. Using it to power vehicles is not even close to sustainable in supply and plant life co2 use at the current rate.

I'm not anti-nuclear. Prefer renewable when it can be done though. Solar, wind, water. Is out there to get.

 

[BlkGS]

LOL yep this is how we generate power.

For real though, My little midwest town has a 1000kw turbine with a backup legacy power station. Deep into summer and to lesser extent winter, they're both running.

I agree with diversifying, but the MAIN fuel for transport has to be moved away from petrol. Using it to power vehicles is not even close to sustainable in supply and plant life co2 use at the current rate.

I'm not anti-nuclear. Prefer renewable when it can be done though. Solar, wind, water. Is out there to get.

My issue with power sources like those is they inevitably and often irreparably damage the environment. You build a hydro plant, you create a reservoir and flood an entire valley. Sure it's a great place for me to boat, but you've caused massive ecological damage. Wind turbines are by definition taking energy out of a natural process. Solar to some extent is as well. Around here they're putting turbines into the Gulfstream and trying to use tidal forces to create power. As a part of a portfolio, sure, they help. But none of the, even combined can be a main power source, especially not as human population continues to scale up.

Nuclear is frankly our only option short of some sort of extra planetary solar panel setup. That of course brings insanely massive logistical nightmares to do, but at least it doesn't have to harm the eart... Other than making them and launching them.

If we had spent the trillions we waste on all this other crap on fusion tests and research, we would be way better off. We could build a massive workforce to create a fusion industry and out of developmental plants in months or years with trillions of dollars... But instead we waste it on things that can't be scaled enough.

I would counter your argument about petrol for cars being unsustainable. What if petrol type fuel is unsustainable for power generation, and perfectly acceptable for transportation as part of a diversified strategy?

 

[2kwik4u]

What if petrol type fuel is unsustainable for power generation, and perfectly acceptable for transportation as part of a diversified strategy?

There in lies the bigger question. What percentage of usage is consumer automobiles as compared to large transportation (diesel electric locomotives and container ships), as well as industry power consumption in general. Electric cars are but a drop in the barrel of our usage.

However they are one of the ways that an individual person can do their part for the cause. A move to strategy where you power your electric car from a windmill in your backyard, and solar panels on your roof is a far better solution than attempting to squeeze a few more % efficiency out of an chemical to mechanical energy conversion. That's not taking into account the transportation fuel usage just to get the energy to the point of use.

Point being, I don't think ICE powered consumer vehicles have much longer to live. 10-20yrs and they'll no longer be sold. 10-20yrs after that and you'll have a hard time finding them used.

 

[Peelz]

it is totally unsustainable if still used at 400x the speed it took to create it. It belches co2 and co into the atmosphere faster than it can scrubbed as well. That's just math

There is enough solar energy to power the world. heres is a map for the size it would take to power just the USA. Yes its big. so what? I like a future with breathable air.

nuclear is not he only option. But agree can be part of it though.

i think the thread has drifted(my fault), and i'm to the end of what I know honestly.... I think well probably agree on many things, but have to agree to disagree on some lol

 

[BlkGS]

I live in Florida and we can't even go net zero on solar. We have sun that will burn your skin off, and most people will burn on a cloudy day. And while I agree in pricinpal, it makes sense to use solar panels when possible, it's not a game cha ger like nuclear power or reducing glabal shipping would be.

I'm not a believer that ICE is going away. It's literal political suicide to do it, and there's a huge political boon for keeping it alive and well. Anything that puts restrictions on ICE is unfairly targeting the poor. I think the only way ICE goes away for personal transport is if the idea of owning your own transport goes away. A fleet of on demand EV autonomous vehicles is probably the only thing that would replace what we have now.

 

[BlkGS]

it is totally unsustainable if still used at 400x the speed it took to create it. It belches co2 and co into the atmosphere faster than it can scrubbed as well. That's just math

There is enough solar energy to power the world. heres is a map for the size it would take to power just the USA. Yes its big. so what? I like a future with breathable air.

nuclear is not he only option. But agree can be part of it though.

i think the thread has drifted(my fault), and i'm to the end of what I know honestly.... I think well probably agree on many things, but have to agree to disagree on some lol

We can't even get people to agree to run a small pipeline out of environmental fear and you want to cover an area bigger than lots of northeastern states with solar panels? Good luck with that...

 

[Peelz]

We can't even get people to agree to run a small pipeline out of environmental fear and you want to cover an area bigger than lots of northeastern states with solar panels? Good luck with that...

LOL I just said it was doable. Next generation, maybe. But not in our lifetime. Too many codger-types that see change as an affront to their very existence or american values.... And tons of people still making money-good luck stopping that as well lol

On the other hand..... the government here pays farmers to turn thousands of acres of food into ethanol fuel (i pay extra for my EV here) And the federal government subsidizes oil companies...So crazy things can be done. but again, not quickly.

Ive heard a few industry types say 2030 will be the year ICE loses top spot. heres a recent article with similar thoughts. 70% by 2040 (WITHOUT gov. intervention) Ill be 65 then and doubt ill care much LOL

Here's What it Will Take for EVs to Take Over the Car Market

 

[BlkGS]

I think that most of these predictions expect an unhindered growth in the sector. They don't account for people who don't have the means, desire, etc for an electric.

Think of the crossover market. In reality, it makes no sense. Minivans are better for basically everything a crossover does. Hatchbacks are better than the small crossovers in most ways. Yet we can't get enough of them for no real reason. We just want them. You're going to get people who just wamt a gas powered car. You're gonna get people whose living situation doesn't work for it. You're gonna get businesses that see charging as a profit stream.

Personally, I don't see them becoming dominant
I could see them becoming a roughly equal market share as ICE. I think particular segments they will become dominant. Taxis, busses, etc I can see being 100% EV. I could even see electric motors replacing gas powered motors as the propulsion for a lot of other vehicles. But I don't see pure battery EVs taking over. I think the automakers will get spooked when they see sales declines when they switch over to EVs, and their competitors pick up those customers.

If Ford had said "we are only doing EV f150s" and saw sales drop 70% and dodge, gm, Toyota, and Nissan picked up all those customers, how quickly do you think they'd walk that back? They'd about face on a 10% drop. 50% they'd stomp on a baby seals skull to get buyers back. The only way I see this working is if there's a govt mandate, and frankly, I think that's political suicide.

 

[Peelz]

I think that most of these predictions expect an unhindered growth in the sector. They don't account for people who don't have the means, desire, etc for an electric.

Think of the crossover market. In reality, it makes no sense. Minivans are better for basically everything a crossover does. Hatchbacks are better than the small crossovers in most ways. Yet we can't get enough of them for no real reason. We just want them. You're going to get people who just wamt a gas powered car. You're gonna get people whose living situation doesn't work for it. You're gonna get businesses that see charging as a profit stream.

Personally, I don't see them becoming dominant
I could see them becoming a roughly equal market share as ICE. I think particular segments they will become dominant. Taxis, busses, etc I can see being 100% EV. I could even see electric motors replacing gas powered motors as the propulsion for a lot of other vehicles. But I don't see pure battery EVs taking over. I think the automakers will get spooked when they see sales declines when they switch over to EVs, and their competitors pick up those customers.

If Ford had said "we are only doing EV f150s" and saw sales drop 70% and dodge, gm, Toyota, and Nissan picked up all those customers, how quickly do you think they'd walk that back? They'd about face on a 10% drop. 50% they'd stomp on a baby seals skull to get buyers back. The only way I see this working is if there's a govt mandate, and frankly, I think that's political suicide.

being clear... I'm talking new vehicle PRODUCTION. not what's on the road. That wont come till later.

Im curious. have you driven one? I thought exactly like you up to a couple yrs ago...and would have agreed. Now, my mentality is totally changed charging at home. and even still being 1/3 cost public charging.

Tesla sold over 200,000 cars last quarter, after producing only 400k the whole year before.... (with no mandate) It would be WAY more if they had the capacity. Theyre already sold out for capacity for the next quarter!!!! They Build them all in Fremont, Ca right now. but, The Texas factory is coming on line early next year I believe. So When the cyber truck starts being produced and that plant is humming that gets doubled pretty quickly I bet. And.. if Tesla DOES produce the rumored $25k hatchback...many factors of increase will happen.

I cant imagine any of the big car makers are thinking like you...looking at losing over a million(or even 800k as it sits) sales/yr and going "ehhh i dont see it- lets make another POS like the last one." lol

I like that Ford jumped on board with the F150 and Mach e.. And all the big companies have already gave a date that they'll stop making gas engine vehicles. I like that Cadillac Lyriq too.

 

[BlkGS]

I have. The teslas I've driven were fine, but had shitty looking cheap interiors. Yeah, the have bursts of speed, that's neat and all, but they felt very "prototype" to me.

That cyber truck won't do shit in the market except flop. First, it's absolutely hideous. Second, it's been beat to market by Ford, with omething thy isn't hideous. The hummer EV is gonna spawn other GM siblings that also aren't hideous and will likely hit market at or before cyber truck.

I don't see EVs ever taking over production. The number of cars Tesla sells in a year globally doesn't even come close to a big player. To put it in perspective, it sells 1/8th of what Suzuki does, and they pulled out of the US like over a decade ago.

I'm very much for American manufacturing, but people act like Tesla is somehow going to become "the automaker", and it simply won't. Hell, they're living on borrowed time with their illegal bustiness model!

 

[thefortunes]

I have. The teslas I've driven were fine, but had shitty looking cheap interiors. Yeah, the have bursts of speed, that's neat and all, but they felt very "prototype" to me.

That cyber truck won't do shit in the market except flop. First, it's absolutely hideous. Second, it's been beat to market by Ford, with omething thy isn't hideous. The hummer EV is gonna spawn other GM siblings that also aren't hideous and will likely hit market at or before cyber truck.

I don't see EVs ever taking over production. The number of cars Tesla sells in a year globally doesn't even come close to a big player. To put it in perspective, it sells 1/8th of what Suzuki does, and they pulled out of the US like over a decade ago.

I'm very much for American manufacturing, but people act like Tesla is somehow going to become "the automaker", and it simply won't. Hell, they're living on borrowed time with their illegal bustiness model!

I hate to even ask, but please, do tell. Although I am a fan of bustiness

 

[2kwik4u]

Although I am a fan of bustiness

There is a whole thread for that in the NSFW section even

 

[BlkGS]

I hate to even ask, but please, do tell. Although I am a fan of bustiness

They went to great lengths and probably "not" bribes to be exempted from the legally mandated franchise model for cars. Supposedly because they are so unique. When all the major automakers offer an EV just like theirs, that's not really a unique product that warrants exemption anymore right?

 

[Peelz]

I have. The teslas I've driven were fine, but had shitty looking cheap interiors. Yeah, the have bursts of speed, that's neat and all, but they felt very "prototype" to me.

That cyber truck won't do shit in the market except flop. First, it's absolutely hideous. Second, it's been beat to market by Ford, with omething thy isn't hideous. The hummer EV is gonna spawn other GM siblings that also aren't hideous and will likely hit market at or before cyber truck.

I don't see EVs ever taking over production. The number of cars Tesla sells in a year globally doesn't even come close to a big player. To put it in perspective, it sells 1/8th of what Suzuki does, and they pulled out of the US like over a decade ago.

I'm very much for American manufacturing, but people act like Tesla is somehow going to become "the automaker", and it simply won't. Hell, they're living on borrowed time with their illegal bustiness model!

I don't think Tesla is THE automaker, but they've moved the needle enough to make all the bigger carmakers pivot.

800k cars for a company who didn't even start mass producing them until 2013 isn't nothing. Suppose Thats why Toyota has been lobbying against it? because it is nothing?

100,000 pre orders on f150.

Cybertruck has 1 million pre orders. Even if 3/4 go away because it takes forever or costs climb... not nothing,

Rivian had 50,000 at last count, having never even produced a vehicle.

So, I guess we don't agree. So, This is my last post on that part of the matter.

Again to the OP. Towing is cool if you only need to go 100 miles. But a cross country tow-i'm not there yet.

 

[thefortunes]

They went to great lengths and probably "not" bribes to be exempted from the legally mandated franchise model for cars. Supposedly because they are so unique. When all the major automakers offer an EV just like theirs, that's not really a unique product that warrants exemption anymore right?

As someone who has been involved in lobbying the legislators in Wisconsin to remove the antiquated, anti-consumer dealer franchise statutes I can assure you that we bribed the crap out of them but the WATDA bribed them just a little bit more.

 

[buckbuck]

Just wanted to clarify my electric F150 order number was correct... 11 million something. However, the number does not reflect the number that have been reserved. As of late July 2021, approximately 120,000 have been reserved. I think it will be a great tow vehicle for me as I do not foresee going more than 60 miles one way.

 

[BlkGS]

I wouldn't say they're anti consumer at all. If anything, they're better for consumers because I end up with more leverage. If dealer a won't give me the price I want on a Tahoe, dealer b will. And more often than not, if dealer b offers me that price, dealer a will match it. If they were not franchised, they just tell me "too bad" and I'd get shafted.

It's actually a sweet deal all around, oems get someone else to hold inventory, dealers get some profit, and Co summers get the chance to buy on the lot and bsrgai ing leverage. Everyone wins, assuming you have product to deliver.

 

[thefortunes]

I wouldn't say they're anti consumer at all. If anything, they're better for consumers because I end up with more leverage. If dealer a won't give me the price I want on a Tahoe, dealer b will. And more often than not, if dealer b offers me that price, dealer a will match it. If they were not franchised, they just tell me "too bad" and I'd get shafted.

It's actually a sweet deal all around, oems get someone else to hold inventory, dealers get some profit, and Co summers get the chance to buy on the lot and bsrgai ing leverage. Everyone wins, assuming you have product to deliver.

Lol. You do realize that the "dealers get some profit" is an additional cost to the consumer, right?

Not to mention the dealer markups, add-ons, finance and insurance, etc...?

(I have two neighbors who own auto dealerships and had another dealership group that was a client of mine).

 

[BlkGS]

Lol. You do realize that the "dealers get some profit" is an additional cost to the consumer, right?

Not to mention the dealer markups, add-ons, finance and insurance, etc...?

(I have two neighbors who own auto dealerships and had another dealership group that was a client of mine).

Insurance has nothing to do with the dealer, not does finance unless you walk in unprepared. Dealer markups and add on fees are only if you pay them, again, another point of a franchise system is if you don't like one dealers markups or fees, you can go to another one and get a better deal. When I buy a car I usually look in a 4 or 5 hour radius, and then try to have the local dealer match the best price. More often than not, they will.

While in theory the dealers profit ould be eliminated and you could see lower prices, in practice that doesn't happen. Tesla just wants that share of the profit, not that it's cutting a middleman out.